KNEEtalk

The OSTEOARTHRITIS DEPARTMENT => KNEE ARTHRITIS - Injections into the joint => Topic started by: DennisF on June 04, 2009, 04:32:21 PM

Title: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: DennisF on June 04, 2009, 04:32:21 PM
Hi Everyone,

First, thanks to all the contributors and those who have made this resource available.

If you have had rHgH injections intra-articularly which were themselves or in combination with other therapies successful could you please post the dose you received in IU or mg (1 mg rHgH = 3 IU) and the frequency of injections and the total number you received. I have read on other posts that Dr Dunn (iagh.com) uses between 15-45 IU per injection and that others use 1 IU (though some thought this was much too little).

I live in Australia and am receiving weekly intra-articular PRP injections for both knees due to deep chondral fissuring and chondral wear. I have had three injections so far and the results have been interesting. I am noticing much less pain and the pain I feel is less intrusive somehow; more like the pain of a sore muscle or sprain than the deep pain I was experiencing before. Also, instead of the depressing feeling that something was wrong in my knees I've begun to feel the opposite is true.

My doctor and I have discussed the use of rHgH in conjunction with PRP. There seems to be solid evidence for rHgH stimulating chondrogenesis and, as many of you would know, there is also much anecdotal evidence for PRP's effectiveness and evidence of chondrogenesis in animal models. He feels that rHgH and PRP would work well together. Unfortunately here in Australia there is little experience with this so I'm hoping others can help me figure out what doses I should take.

Ideally I'd be marching off to Regenexx and getting the stem cell treatment but it's too expensive and would involve a major disruption to my life and work.

By the way, for those following stem cell developments, I saw an article today about a method developed by an Australian university that involves culturing stem cells in a contact lens which is placed over damaged corneas. The stem cells migrate onto the cornea and become corneal cells. A woman's eyesight was restored using this method. I wonder if a similar technique could be used in conjunction with arthroscopy to deliver a stem cell saturated absorbable scaffold, like the contact lens, directly to an area of chondral wear. The material would have to be adhered to the cartilage somehow while the transfer of cells occurred. Perhaps such a technique, directly applying the cells to the area without a cover and with minimal loss of cells to the synovial fluid and surrounding tissue, would mean considerably shortened rehabilitation times.
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: irentat on June 04, 2009, 05:18:17 PM
Dennis,

I posted regarding the IU quantity from Dr. Dunn.  As a reference, I have used 15 IU in my ankle every time I received a shot.  I got a total of 7 in my left and 6 in my right.  Specifically, 1 mg = 2.7 IU.  I have had Omnitrope as well as Humatrope injected.  I suggest only the best quality stuff, not Chinese.  Don't take a chance.

The knee is bigger and generally would require more.  There is no formal documentation that has been released to the public on this that I have found.  Dr. Dunn is still working on it and not sure if he will ever release.

2 things to consider:
because the rHGH is fragile, don't directly mix rHGH with anything but would add in a separate alternative to your PRP from one visit to the next.  Mixing the modalities I think would only be beneficial.

Research how much you feel comfortable with and go with it.  I started feeling comfortable with the volume when I research how much body builders will take.  Basically, it can't hurt you at such low doses.


Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: NikkiE on June 05, 2009, 03:13:09 AM
Hi Dennis

I'm in a similar position to you. I'm currently having PRP injections and they have made a big difference in my pain levels (I can sleep at night - hooray!). It is a huge boost to your feeling of wellbeing.

I'm very curious to know who your doctor is. I have done lots of internet searching and havent come across anybody using HGH for the treatment of arthritis in Australia - would you mind messaging me their name?

(Would love to give regennex a go too - but financially and timewise it is not do-able.)

Cheers
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: NikkiE on June 09, 2009, 12:08:50 AM
Dennis I was about to reply to your post from yesterday but it seems to have disappeared!

Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: DennisF on June 09, 2009, 09:48:00 AM
For some reason my last post has disappeared from this thread. Anyone know why?
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: DennisF on June 09, 2009, 10:15:08 AM
In abbreviated form this is the gist of what I wrote:

Thanks to NikkiE & Irentat for responding.

Results from weekly PRP therapy, intra-articular into knees: decreased intensity of pain, change in quality of pain (formerly intrusive now more like the pain of a muscle sprain).

Thoughts on improving therapy:
1. Adding rHgH as it is a known agent of chondrogenesis and causes chondrocytes to respond to IGF-1, one of the growth factors in platelets. Suspect that though HgH is a fragile molecule whatever mechanical forces it experiences in the syringe mixed with PRP would be less than those experienced in the knee. Thoughts, Irentat?

2. Suspect non-weight bearing is important for optimum results: Dr Dunn requires non- or reduced weight bearing of his patients. Irentat, you say you've had great results without rest. How long have you been getting PRP? How many injections altogether approximately? What exactly are you receiving treatment for? Do you mind me asking what the costs are for your HgH injections? (Forgive me for not researching this but I'm in a bit of a hurry trying to put this post together again after it disappeared.)

rHgH in Australia:
Only available as a government subsidised medicine for a small number of conditions, e.g. childhood growth disorders. Research so far suggests that it can be prescribed for other conditions but without the subsidy resulting in a cost of approximately $1300 for 24mg or 60 IU (according to Irentat's calculations). The brand is Humatrope by Eli Lilly. My chemist is waiting to find out whether he is able to fill a prescription for it. Says orders go directly to Eli Lilly. I am aware of rHgH being prescribed here for use as a rejuvenative in HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy).

I'm sure I've missed something. Will address NikkiE's question via private message.



Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: irentat on June 12, 2009, 10:45:12 PM
Thoughts on improving therapy:
1. Adding rHgH as it is a known agent of chondrogenesis and causes chondrocytes to respond to IGF-1, one of the growth factors in platelets. Suspect that though HgH is a fragile molecule whatever mechanical forces it experiences in the syringe mixed with PRP would be less than those experienced in the knee. Thoughts, IrentatThe issue I brought up was regarding mixing HGH with anything within the syringe.  As far as I know, there is not available information on what will or will not break down the very fragile HGH molecule so don't mix it with things like B12 or something similar.
2. Suspect non-weight bearing is important for optimum results: Dr Dunn requires non- or reduced weight bearing of his patients. Irentat, you say you've had great results without rest. How long have you been getting PRP? How many injections altogether approximately? What exactly are you receiving treatment for? Do you mind me asking what the costs are for your HgH injections? (Forgive me for not researching this but I'm in a bit of a hurry trying to put this post together again after it disappeared.)  I got HGH shots initially and moved to PRP (2 each in each ankle) around Dec-Jan timeframe.  I am getting treatment for cartilage degradation.  Almost complete denuding of the joint but now focusing on rebuilding the ligaments, which originally caused the issue.rHgH in Australia:
Only available as a government subsidised medicine for a small number of conditions, e.g. childhood growth disorders. Research so far suggests that it can be prescribed for other conditions but without the subsidy resulting in a cost of approximately $1300 for 24mg or 60 IU (according to Irentat's calculations). The brand is Humatrope by Eli Lilly. My chemist is waiting to find out whether he is able to fill a prescription for it. Says orders go directly to Eli Lilly. I am aware of rHgH being prescribed here for use as a rejuvenative in HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy).

I'm sure I've missed something. Will address NikkiE's question via private message.




Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: DennisF on June 17, 2009, 01:39:08 PM
Thanks, Irentat :)

I also have had PRP in my ankle. It has responded beautifully (3rd shot today but noticed a great change in the week after the first shot). I suspect this is for two reasons: my ankle cartilage is not in as bad a shape as my knee cartilage and the tightness of the ankle joint and proximity of surfaces allows the PRP to hit the required spot far more easily than the knee.

Not being an expert I have no real idea what I'm talking about but I suspect that when PRP is injected into the synovial fluid of the knee it is more widely dispersed through the relatively large volume of liquid. This and the large surface area of the knee joint surface may mean less direct contact between the PRP growth factors and the area of damage.

Dennis.
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: NikkiE on September 25, 2009, 04:55:12 AM
Hi Dennis
I just wondered if you ended up getting the HGH done or if you just stuck with PRP. How are things working out for you?
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: DennisF on September 29, 2009, 11:51:15 AM
Hi NikkiE,

I've been sticking with the PRP therapy for now because

1. It's cheap.
2. rHgH is expensive.
3. In Australia you need permission from Eli Lilly to use rHgH for this and
4. If I did the whole rHgH thing following Dr Dunn's (iagh.com) protocol I'd need to keep my weight off the knee for at least a few weeks.
5. I've noticed a gradual improvement in knee symptoms since starting therapy.

I should add that I'm going easy on both knees (little to no jogging or jumping) and I attempt to keep the knee with meniscal tear from bending past 90 degrees just in case the PRP might also help the meniscus to heal. I'm getting another MRI done in a few weeks which can be compared with the one from a year ago. That will allow me to give a more objective response. You might be interested to know my mother's started PRP for her knee cartilage and says she has noticed a big difference.

Another thing I'm interested in is jellyfish mucin and hyaluronic acid. If you do a search you'll find some interesting articles on experiments done in Japan at Tokai University.

Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: NikkiE on September 30, 2009, 11:47:50 PM
Hi Dennis
Thats terrific thats it working for you. Its fabulous that you can jog even a little. I'd be interested to see if your MRI shows any cartilage growth. I havent heard of the jellyfish thing but will be sure to look it up.
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: ashok_guru on June 01, 2010, 08:37:30 PM
Hi Guys,

I just happened to read this thread.
I have a similar conditions on my knee am planning to take PRP injections by Jun 11th.

Can you please answer few of my questions.

1. Is there a difference between HGH and rHGH ?
2. Are these PRP injections to the knee more painful ?
3. Please suggest is it better to take just the blood platelets or to have HGH along with blood platelets in the injections ?

Please share your experiences. I have a cartilage damage had couple of arthoscopic surgery which didnot help much am having immense pain and swelling in my right knee. Due to overuse of my left leg ..left knee also started paining.  ???

Please advise.

Thanks
Ashok
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: irentat on June 04, 2010, 01:15:06 AM
Ashok,

all GH now is recombinant GH (rHGH).

PRP can be painful if the pH is not ajdusted before reinjection.

I would do both injections but separately.
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: ashok_guru on June 07, 2010, 10:12:19 PM
Hi irentat,

Thanks for your reply.
I really appreciate your help for sharing your experiences and information.

I did some research on these HGH and read some good and bad information especially with the side effects of using HGH.
Am bit worried on these side effects can you please let me know your thoughts on the below. Definitely am planning to talk to my doctor on this since you have already had this HGH injections am sure you would have done more research on these side effects. Please advise.

Thanks
Ashok


Side Effects of HGH
Use of HGH under medical supervision for HGH deficiency is safe and will have few side effects. The risk of side effects increase when HGH is taken in higher doses without any medical supervision.

The most common side effect of the excess use of HGH is acromegaly. This is a medical condition that begins with the overgrowth of facial bone and connective tissue, leading to a changed appearance due to protruding jaw and eyebrow bones. This condition also leads to an abnormal growth of the hands and feet with an increased growth of hair all over the body. Contrary to increasing your life, this condition will shorten life expectancy considerably.

Mentioned here are just some of the known side effects of the undue use of HGH.
-- Acromegaly (as described in detail above)
-- Premature death (in case of acromegaly)
-- Heart enlargement (due to prolonged use of HGH. Can't be reversed)
-- Low blood sugar with risk of going into a diabetic coma
-- Excessive hair growth all over the body
-- Excessive water retention
-- Liver damage
-- Thyroid damage

HGH should not be used by anyone with certain diseases as it may cause more severe side effects. Some of these diseases include:

Cancer
Liver Disease
Kidney Disease
Diabetes
Hypothyroidism
Pancreatic Disease
Scoliosis
Breathing Problems
Recent Stomach or Heart Surgery
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: irentat on June 08, 2010, 03:47:22 AM
I completely agree regarding the side effects.  Sadly they don't give the levels and for the period of time it takes to see these side effects.  Probably to scare you and keeping you from using it, which is common with such products (hormones and steroids in general).  Knowing what I know, I would not even begin to worry.  I have taken over 15 IU at one time each week for months at a time with no ill effects.  A common bodybuilding amount is about 6 IU daily taken 5 days on and 2 days off.  Some BBers do 20+ IU at a time a few times a week with no ill effects.   

Do some research on the common bodybuilding boards to gain some appreciation of the levels that many others are taking.  After that, you will be much more comfortable with GH.
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: ashok_guru on July 06, 2010, 04:44:33 PM
Hi Irentat

I have started taking treatment from Dr Hauser. I started my treatment last month had two prolo injection with HGH.
I have requested doctor for PRP but he told me that Prolo injections with HGH is good for cartilage growth. He asked me to have 6 injections before I can see some results. I have Right knee cartilage damage, 2X2 cm knee cartilage delamination and had debridement with no effective results so started trying this.

With two injections so far I haven't seen much improvement though the knee warmth has gone down a bit but still having the stiffness and pain with walking and climbing stairs. I had first injection on June 4th, 2010 and second one by July 2nd, 2010.

Can you please advice is it better to go with PRP or Prolo injections as doctor advised.

Thanks
Ashok
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: irentat on July 07, 2010, 06:13:10 PM
Hi Irentat
I have started taking treatment from Dr Hauser. I started my treatment last month had two prolo injection with HGH.
I have requested doctor for PRP but he told me that Prolo injections with HGH is good for cartilage growth. He asked me to have 6 injections before I can see some results. I have Right knee cartilage damage, 2X2 cm knee cartilage delamination and had debridement with no effective results so started trying this.

Can you please advice is it better to go with PRP or Prolo injections as doctor advised.

Not quote sure of the question.  To confirm, Hauser is doing dextrose with GH?   I would go with this combo over PRP.  No studies to reference but having done both, I prefer GH over PRP just because of my own success I can point to. 
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: ashok_guru on July 07, 2010, 07:56:58 PM
Hi Irentat,

Thanks for the reply. Glad to hear that you had some positive results with GH injections.
How many injections you had before seeing some results ?

I had my second injection last Friday  2 nd of July. Till Tuesday morning the pain,stiffness and swelling was bearable but after Tuesday morning I got a sharp pain in my thigh area is it normal ?

I called up the hospitall they said it is normal that I have that pain except if I have increased warmth in the knee which i dont have.

Thanks
Ashok
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: irentat on July 09, 2010, 01:41:54 AM
I cannot give you a definitive answer on what it took to see results since I have done so many modalities in the time I have taken GH.  I can say that in 23 months I have gone from barely being able to walk to now being able to run short distances.  Probably can consider longer distances but must take things slowly.

Regarding the pain of injection.  You will feel GH if it is not buffered to increase pH before injection.  The thing is here, Hauser has to inject all of the vial because high pH storage breaks down GH over time.  Another thing, Dextrose will also cause pain when injected.
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: rob wilson on July 09, 2010, 04:03:53 PM
You might not want to hear this but it could take many injections (over 10) of dextrose + HGH to see the benefit you need to really feel better. Don't give up. It can work.
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: ashok_guru on July 09, 2010, 04:20:26 PM
Thanks again Irentat, I am suffering with this knee injury for the past 18 months and had two surgeries already without any improvement and currently walking with the help of a crutch. I have a severe cartilage damage due to sports activity and am 29 years old, as per the surgery finding report there was a 2 x 2 cm of cartilage De-lamination, Ortho said that is a pretty large area that got damaged.

My ortho suggested knee cartilage transplant but I decided to give this Prolotherapy and PRP a try before having another surgery. Am hoping prolotherapy with GH injection would help me and keeping my fingers crossed. Also please share some of the other things that u have tried if you think that would help me with cartilage growth. Thanks once again for all the valuable informations.



Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: ashok_guru on July 09, 2010, 04:40:42 PM
Thanks Rob, sure I am going to try this...
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: rob wilson on July 09, 2010, 06:07:25 PM
What about Regenexx. Or if you do have surgery do a microfracture and followup with the Regenexx or HGH after surgery. It will greatly enhance the surgery results.
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: irentat on July 10, 2010, 02:45:11 AM
My ortho suggested knee cartilage transplant but I decided to give this Prolotherapy and PRP a try before having another surgery. Am hoping prolotherapy with GH injection would help me and keeping my fingers crossed. Also please share some of the other things that u have tried if you think that would help me with cartilage growth. Thanks once again for all the valuable informations.

As Rob inidicated, I will say many over 10 injections.  Get Hauser to bump up the dosage of GH, he does 2IU per injection?  Pretty low.  Your pain level is the biggest indicator of what is going on but I would get an MRI done after a few months to see where your cartilage hole stands.  Further, I would keep using the crutch.  New cartilage is fragile.

2 X 2 is a big hole and you have a long way to go but be thankful that is all it is.  I would take your situation over mine any day!  I had to deal with completely degenerated ankles including torn ligaments, dead bone and a genetic predisposition of my body to break down collagen faster than it can rebuild.  I had NO cartilage in both my ankles and could barely walk.  Now I am living a normal life and will keep going until I attain full athletic ability (a few years).  You can too.
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: ashok_guru on July 14, 2010, 09:13:32 PM
Thanks Irentat and Rob for all these informations and advise. Appreciate your help. Sure I will wait and take things slowly and planning to talk doctor about increasing the IU per injection. Thanks again. - Ashok
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: rob8647932 on July 14, 2010, 10:51:20 PM
Please let us know if Hauser agrees to increase HGH dosage. Thanks
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: gb on July 21, 2010, 01:22:20 PM
A year ago I asked Dr. Hauser whether increasing GH dosage beyond 2IU was possible, and he was against it. That isn't to say he doesn't do it, or can be convinced otherwise, but i've noticed his methods are more on the conservative side vs other prolotherapist. ie, Hauser restricts IU dosage in GH, won't inject from certain points behind the knee to avoid main arteries, won't inject certain fluids that others do...all I'm sure to reduce his liability exposure and with good medical reasons in support of that I'm sure. To some patients, it's reassuring, to others not so risk averse, they may want more risk taking.

I'm not saying one practice is better than the other, Just an observation of mine.
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: rob wilson on July 21, 2010, 02:44:48 PM
Besides Dr Dunn who else is doing HGH and in particular using more than 2IU per knee injection.
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: irentat on July 21, 2010, 03:37:22 PM
Besides Dr Dunn who else is doing HGH and in particular using more than 2IU per knee injection.

My doctor in Scottsdale, AZ: Dr. Tallman.  I turned him onto Dunn's work.
http://www.arizonaprolotherapy.com/

However, sometimes you just have to do things yourself...
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: ashok_guru on July 23, 2010, 09:50:30 PM
Is it ok to TRY PRP procedure parallely from another doctor while taking HGH Injections from Dr.Hauser ?
Will it anyway help to speed up the recovery. Please advise

Am taking my 3rd HGH Injections next friday.

Thanks
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: irentat on July 24, 2010, 06:58:52 AM
Is it ok to TRY PRP procedure parallely from another doctor while taking HGH Injections from Dr.Hauser ?
Will it anyway help to speed up the recovery. Please advise

Am taking my 3rd HGH Injections next friday.

Thanks

I have done similar and if you feel compelled, you will do fine.   Uncertain if it will help speed recovery but based on personal observations and my own research, it should help things along.  My feeling is you need to take them many days/weeks apart.  GH and PRP have different methods of working to heal and don't know if they would be conflicting.
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: ashok_guru on July 26, 2010, 04:06:43 PM
Thanks once again Irentat.

I have another question, In my surgery report it has been mentioned that the surgeon has performed synovectomy ?
I could not understand this was wondering whether this synovial membrane will grow back ? Since there are no synovial membrane left [am not sure if its partial or total synovectomy] synovial fluid will not be there for the knee so will it inhibit the nutritions to the cartilage there by stopping the cartilage growth ?

This stuff really kills me so many questions in mind and lots of confusions...thanks to this forum and thanks to members like Irentat for sharing their experiences and knowledge on this.
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: ashok_guru on August 02, 2010, 02:56:39 PM
I had 3rd set of HGH injection on my knee last Friday. Doctor told me that he had increased the dosage little bit but he didn't tell me how many units he had increased, he also advised that I can take PRP injections parallely while taking HGH injections. So am planning to schedule my PRP injections at my local place in couple of weeks time. My knee is still sore from the injections finding it bit difficult to walk. Will keep posting my experiences. Thanks
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: irentat on August 03, 2010, 10:22:51 PM
I had 3rd set of HGH injection on my knee last Friday. Doctor told me that he had increased the dosage little bit but he didn't tell me how many units he had increased, he also advised that I can take PRP injections parallely while taking HGH injections. So am planning to schedule my PRP injections at my local place in couple of weeks time. My knee is still sore from the injections finding it bit difficult to walk. Will keep posting my experiences. Thanks

Please do keep us informed.  A few ideas to try with those that are injecting:  PRP is acidic.  You must adjust the pH for IA injections.  The same is true for HGH shots IA.  Bac water or sterile water is very acidic.  Have them adjust it up to the normal level of a joint.  Once I started adjusting the pH, my pain went away because of the injection itself.  It may still hurt later but that is the healing process not the actual injection.
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: ashok_guru on August 09, 2010, 08:33:10 PM
Thanks once again Irentat. Will share these information with my doctor and will update my progress.

Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: ashok_guru on August 11, 2010, 07:48:56 PM
My appointment for PRP injection is by this Friday, bit nervous regarding pain associated with this PRP. Somehow Prolo HGH injections were manageable with regards to pain but I have read different experiences from different people who had PRP injections before so bit worried on that front. But still keeping my fingers crossed hoping that it would be help me.

Irentat, I will keep in mind regarding your advise on pH balance before injecting this PRP and will check with doctor.

Thanks
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: ashok_guru on August 13, 2010, 10:23:41 PM
I had my PRP injection today at last, doctor did pH balance before injecting. My knee feels bit stiff now and its not still out of local anesthesia. Will update my progress
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: ashok_guru on August 16, 2010, 08:44:49 PM
Not much pain today I had bit pain and stiffness that lasted only one day after my PRP injections. Still the pain was very much manageable its not bad anything like that I have imagined, now am back to my old symptoms. In another two weeks[8/27] I will be having my Prolo injections[4th] with HGH.
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: rob wilson on August 19, 2010, 04:24:48 PM
Ashok,

I got your personal message but for some reason it won't let me respond. You can call me @ 3302124101. Thanks
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: ashok_guru on August 25, 2010, 06:50:22 PM
Thanks Rob, will call you definitely..thanks again for providing the number.
I will be having my fourth HGH injection from Dr.Hauser this friday and will update my status once am back from there.
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: ashok_guru on August 27, 2010, 09:20:36 PM
I had my 4th Prolo HGH Injection. Today doctor tried a different thing...he first gave prolo injection [with HGH](Hackett-Hemwall Prolotherapy) - > doctor has increased the HGH dosage to 5 I.U. followed by PRP injection immediately. He also advised for Prolozone therapy in my next appointment along with manipulation of my knee under anesthesia for the Arthrosis. Will keep you updated on this.
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: irentat on September 06, 2010, 03:40:42 AM
I had my 4th Prolo HGH Injection. Today doctor tried a different thing...he first gave prolo injection [with HGH](Hackett-Hemwall Prolotherapy) - > doctor has increased the HGH dosage to 5 I.U. followed by PRP injection immediately. He also advised for Prolozone therapy in my next appointment along with manipulation of my knee under anesthesia for the Arthrosis. Will keep you updated on this.
Glad to see your doc is upping the GH.  5 IU is a no brainer. 
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: ColleenyM on November 18, 2010, 11:13:43 PM
I am new here, and this is my first post.  I am not having knee issues, but rather hip issues, and I often find myself on this website reading articles that relate to treatments I am looking into.  Recently, I have been really interested in getting the HGH to my right hip.  I have a full thickness hole, down to the bone, in the articular cartilage of my hip socket.  Its a full cm wide, aprox. 6mm X 10mm and 5-6mm deep.  I have undergone two PRP treatments with little results.  The first treament seemed to help about 25%, and the second did nothing.  I am actually taking a step backwards, here, and I have more pain than prior to the first treatment.  I can barely do stairs, nor can I walk normally, or with any kind of long stride.  My steps have to be short and carefull.

I used to be very athletic, and it just happened one day, I could not walk....just like that.  I thought I ripped something.  Since then, I have not been able to rocover, and I am only 33 years old, and do not want a hip replacement just yet. ITs been about 9 months since I have been crippled with this issue.  And I want a solution, BADLY.

So, I am very interested in this HGH stuff, and I am waiting to see how it helps others.  I am particularly interested in the effect it has for cartilage defects, holes, lesions, etc.  I am hoping it will fill the cartilage in for me, so I can back to my active lifestyle.
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: irentat on November 18, 2010, 11:38:21 PM
Colleen,

Have you had the hip cleaned out?  You need to get rid of that loose debris first as it will only cause issues.  After that, you need to find a doc willing to do injections of GH.  Look to the guy that did your PRP.  I truly believe that PRP in such circumstances will not work as well as GH.  If you have been reading all our posts, and I hope you do, you should already know this:  It will take MANY shots to get your cartilage back but it will come back.  I have been aggressively working to bring back my cartilage in both ankles for over 2 years and still only 1/2 of the way there in some areas.  However, I can live a normal life without limping or worry about how far I will walk today and will it hurt by the end.  Again, read all others and I have posted here and get an idea of what is involved.  To get to my level of knowledge of cartilage repair, I have researched for years and still don't talk about some protocols I personally have done (very controversial but they work).

Just don't believe doctors that say you can't do anything because you can.
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: ColleenyM on November 22, 2010, 05:08:12 AM
Thanks Irentat,

I have not had an arthroscopy done.  I am uninsured at the moment, and in school full time.  I have had all of the MRIs and arthrograms, and they have not noted an chunks anywhere in there, just the hole.  I am hoping that there is nothing more.

I have talked to my Dr. about GH, and he won't do it, as it seems to be more of a risk, and he is not willing to risk his practice for it.  He is more interested in using stem cells with me.  i have looked into it, and it seems to be VERY promising.  There is a place in Denver that does it, with much success.  Regenexx.com

My Dr. is now just starting to do this, where he takes your bone marrow from your pelvis, and some fat from your body, along with thrombin to jell it up, and then he injects it into the hip. 

I might...just might fly to Denver and get one treatment from them.  They have X-ray results showing cartilage repair on hips, ankles, knees, etc.  with only having 2-3 injections, spaced out several months.
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: irentat on November 22, 2010, 11:53:01 AM
Colleen,

Unless you doctor is some sort of demi-god, I would suggest another doc.  Not open to GH into a joint I consider personally archaic.  Ask if your doc is willing to do a corticosteroid injections into joint.  If he says yes, you definitely have the wrong doctor.

Anything you do, Regenexx, PRP, prolotherapy, GH, testosterone (yes)  done IA will help.  What I think, from my experience, will help fastest is GH now and continued for multiple months.  You just have to get aggressive in your own recovery.  Example I can site from myself:  I took over IA GH and testosterone injections from my doc so that I could inject more often and for less money.  It worked as my recovery sped up tremendously. 
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: ColleenyM on November 25, 2010, 11:45:28 PM
Irentat,

Did you inject the GH for systemic increase in the hormone?  Or were your injections right to the affected joint? Just curious how you were being treated.

My Dr. has explained that off label use of HGH (intra articular) not for systemic use for low GH and hormones, etc.  is off label use, and can get him in trouble with the FDA, and raise his insurance costs.  I am not sure how some Drs. pull it off, but maybe the laws are different state to state?  He said that he will look into it.  He is very cautious, and will not inject sterioids unless absolutely needed, and no more than a couple times per year, if necessary.  He has not recommended them to me at all.  He is more holistic, and prefers to treat with prolo, or natural hormone and biological suppliments.  Thats just his method.  Its not bad, its just the way he feels is best for the body.  Many Drs. will send you away, if you request HGH.  Most will raise an eyebrow, as it is not widely known for treating cartilage defects, just yet.  I have contacted tons of Drs. in my area concerning this, and non so far will do intra-articular HGH to the hip, unfortunately.  I would have to travel to the well know Dr. Hauser or Allen Dunn, or pittsburgs, Dr. Rydze.

I am probably going to try Stem cells, first, and if that does not work, then maybe I will travel to get the HGH. 

I am happy to read your insight on this, as I am still unsure of the absolute best way to get my cartilage back.  I wish it were ligaments, they are so much easier to treat.  :(

Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: irentat on November 26, 2010, 12:55:44 AM
Colleen,

You need to read up more on this subject and do it just on these last two threads.  You are on the path of a hip replacement unless your start digging.  I have directly reference IA (intra-articular) injections and a BIG epiphany you may have to come to is that you have to do this yourself.  This is even more shocking to people than a doctor's use of hormones in the joint.  Is this that important to you?  I have no idea of your situation and it took me 10 years to get to the reality of what I needed to do so I cannot speak for you but only guide.

I am certain stem cell therapy will work but cannot speak to it personally.  I just know that GH produces stem cells in the joint already and GH is so much more available than regenexx and cheaper. 

You are listening to your generic doctors too much.  Doctors are a tool and nothing more.  When one does not work, you find another tool.  Look for a local prolotherapist.  Naturopath's are also very open to other modalities.  Some doctors are scrutinized more than others.  NMD's are always open to new ideas.  My prolotherapist was open to the intense use of GH and did it on me when I requested.  However, he also used other modalities when I was ready.

No idea of your background but you need to research this subject.  I have no medical background and it has taken years to research this subject and underlying aspects of joints and how they work and heal.  Honestly, not many doctors know much about joints and neither do I but I know what has worked for me.  So, you need to research and get comfortable with what alternatives are out there...if a solution is that important to you. 
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: ColleenyM on November 28, 2010, 02:51:21 AM
Thanks for the tips.  I have been online researching just about daily since I became aware of my situation.   I only recently found out about my hip trouble around 8 months ago.  Since, then I have learned a lot, joined many groups online to talk and share experiences, and I have spoken to many Drs. over the phone, or have seen them in person. I continue to research almost nightly.  I've already had the PRP, so I know that does not work for me.  As soon as I realized it was not doing the job, I have been digging deep for another method.  I definately think I am on the right track, but I will not know for sure until I see if it works for me. 

Not every method works for everyone, and this is just something each of us might have to experience and figure out on our own, like you said.  I definately, feel that stem cells, and HGH are top notch for cartilage regrowth.  And if I don't have success with one, I will go for the other.  I am not likely to just take my Doctors word for it....that is sooooo not me.

I will dig, and I will research, as I have been, untill I find something that works.  I don't give up easily, as I am a stubborn Irish woman.  hehe... 8)

I've already decided not to go to Denver (for the regenexx), but I will be getting stem cell injections locally, with my current prolo Dr. until I am proven otherwise that they don't work.  I am very confident that this may be my ticket to cartilage growth.  So far, my extended hours researching stem cells from bone marrow seems to be a very good option for me.  They have done many clinical trials with stem cells and cartilage growth, and it is very promising for this kind of joint damage.  Studies have shown a 25% increase in thickness of articular cartilage after just one stem cell treatment, six months later.  Thats amazing!

I hope that one day, all this stuff might be covered under insurance like a joint replacement, which is always covered....go figure.

Also, if you do the math, getting three stem cell treatments, verus 12-14 HGH injections, you actually come out a bit cheaper in the long run with the stem cells.  Stem cells show continued cartilage growth after one injection six months later.  My local Dr. does them for $2500 each, using bone marrow, PRP, and fat combined with thrombin to jell in up, then he injects it.  I hope that this works!  If not...I am onto something else, and will try the HGH.

Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: irentat on November 28, 2010, 04:11:02 AM
I will be rooting for you!

Please keep us informed.  I always like hearing about successes.  You will, maybe not in the timeframe you want but you will, I can tell.
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: franciscoc on November 30, 2010, 10:57:14 AM
hello there.
 te dosage and frequency   of intraarticular inyections of HGH  seems to ve vague.
It would be very useful to me if you could tell us  how many units per joint and   the periodicity.
 thank you
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: crumpet on April 25, 2011, 12:53:13 AM
Coleeny:

Hey there! Your last post was a good while ago.... November on this thread anyway.  Can you give us an update?  We are all dying to know how things are going for you.

~Crumpet :D
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: KneeZilla on June 04, 2012, 07:48:08 PM
Sorry If I am zombifying a thread but this seems pretty interesting. I have some damage to the articular cartilage of my right knee (pulp hook D:). Anyway my big concern is that when they scoped it there is some obvious damage to the surface of the cartilage. It hurts pretty much all the time and allot worse when I walk around allot during the day. Anyway my question is will PRP HGH or any of these therapies help repair or slow the rate my cartilage is wearing down. Also is there any hard evidence that this stuff works? Anybody seen any medical journals or studies done on it? I am curious, optimistic and also skeptical. The anecdotes on here seem pretty promising but I am thinking this seems too good to be true. Also where would I go to get this done? I live in Maine and my health insurance just ran out. My knee took my job from me. Now I'm broke. Oh well another hurdle to overcome. Thanks for the info guys. Best wishes to your knees.
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: Kefu on November 21, 2013, 01:15:56 AM
I am also looking to do some growth hormone injections or something similar to fix my knee pain. Anyone know of anyone that does these types of injections in Ontario Canada? Maybe around Toronto or London region? Does anyone know of any doctors in Ontario Canada that do stem cell injections?

Here is some background on me and the treatments I have tried:

http://www.kneeguru.co.uk/KNEEtalk/index.php?topic=63201.0
Title: Re: rHgH dosage for intra-articular injections & improving stem cell treatment.
Post by: JamesDean on November 30, 2013, 09:01:32 PM
Sorry If I am zombifying a thread but this seems pretty interesting. I have some damage to the articular cartilage of my right knee (pulp hook D:). Anyway my big concern is that when they scoped it there is some obvious damage to the surface of the cartilage. It hurts pretty much all the time and allot worse when I walk around allot during the day. Anyway my question is will PRP HGH or any of these therapies help repair or slow the rate my cartilage is wearing down. Also is there any hard evidence that this stuff works? Anybody seen any medical journals or studies done on it? I am curious, optimistic and also skeptical. The anecdotes on here seem pretty promising but I am thinking this seems too good to be true. Also where would I go to get this done? I live in Maine and my health insurance just ran out. My knee took my job from me. Now I'm broke. Oh well another hurdle to overcome. Thanks for the info guys. Best wishes to your knees.

Any update on your situation? I can attest to the hgh treatment. I was treated under Dunn and my knee is vastly improved. However, it is an expensive procedure, so I'm researching other possible routes.