The WAITING ROOM => GENERAL KNEE QUESTIONS and comments (good for new threads) => Topic started by: tanyap on October 13, 2007, 12:57:12 PM

Title: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on October 13, 2007, 12:57:12 PM
Hi All,

Well, after months of new physio, e-stim, lot of moaning on my behalf, lot of frustration, tears, pain and frustration - I have had a development that is a small, but definite improvement!!

My VMO was dead, invisible, no movement if I squeezed hard and tried to contract it. Nothing. Nada.

Around 2 or 3 weeks ago I woke up one morning and I kept getting what felt like electric shocks in my VMO for a lot of the day. I secretly hoped it meant it was waking up - itd increased in size from nothing to a pea, to maybe a sardine in the preceeding 3 months.
I had some more dislocations so there was no change for a couple of weeks after the electric shock day.

In the past week its felt 'different' doing my exercises. It actually feels like the muscles is straining trying to do them. Before it just felt like nothing, like a stretched piece of skin, not muscular feelings at all.

Then I noticed that it was behaving differently if I contracted it when my leg was in a bent position. Before it would be slack, Id contract it, Id relax and itd go back slack again. Suddenly it stopped going back slack after Id contracted it. I still have to contract it 'manually' to get it doing its job in a bent position, but I dont have to 'hold' onto it anymore, it stays doing its job automatically - so one half of its job is back.

And then yesterday I was lying on my bed having a look at my leg and contracting the muscles, and I suddenly realised I can actually contract it and you can SEE it (as opposed to feeling around for it under the skin), AND I can isolate the contraction in it - before I would just mentally squeeze on my whole leg to try and engage it at all in conjunction with the other muscles.

This is more or less exactly what my OS told me would happen. It would one day gain enough nerve fibres to just start working. Its not fully operational yet, and even when it is its gonna be a lot of work to make it strong (step 1 - get it working, step 2 - make it strong), but it should be easier to strengthen it when its firing properly, and with luck I wont get that futile feeling Ive been having recently when it seems like Im working hard for no return.

In the meantime Im still at the same risk of dislocation until it really does start doing its job and then gets strong - but wow - im really happy that you can see things starting to change!!!

Thanks to all who have supported me and advised me here. Ive taken lots of the advice from here and Im sure thats helped things along.

Ill keep you posted as to further developments!!!

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: mineemowse on October 13, 2007, 01:12:59 PM
Congratulations, Tanya!

You've really turned a corner. I can't imagine how great you must feel!  ;D

I know it still won't be easy, but what an accomplishment you've made - you're hard work is paying off---

Continued success!

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on October 13, 2007, 01:15:58 PM
CONGRATULATIONS!! There's hope for the rest of us then?! If only mine had woken up 20 years ago when I first had physio...(if only I'd had a physio that cared enough to try harder). At least I am older and more informed now. I won't be stopping physio until I am sure things are on the right track. If only my joints didn't protest the retraining so much - it's one step forward, two steps back. Got new exercises on Tuesday and by Wednesday I had sharp pain everywhere in one knee and it was back to rest, ice, rest, ice (sound familiar??). I have lots to do but no willing knees to help. Am even doubting I'll be back at work in 10 days time (4 weeks post op, when the OS said 10 days!!). Sorry, don't mean to rain on your parade. You've put in heaps of hard work and you deserve it totally. Once again, congrats.
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on October 13, 2007, 03:45:12 PM
oh Kathy - I so understand, I had surgery 20 years ago and never regained full function. Thats why I am where I am now.

My joints protest too - Ive had to use anti inflammatories the past 3 nights running cos by the time I got to bed my knee hurt so much from exercising it.
Every dislocation I have puts me back around 1-2 weeks too - and Ive had 4 in the past 3 weeks so its hard work!!

I find it difficult to articulate but its like before I was just stretching myself and I didnt feel the muscle I was supposed to feel working, and suddenly I can. Pretty weakly it has to be said - but that can be worked on.

Phew - it IS hard work - Im mid exercises session right now and Im poofed!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: april on October 13, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
Yay! Glad to hear. :)
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: shortyclairebear on October 13, 2007, 09:28:04 PM
tanya that is great!!
im so gald that you are seeing an improvement!!
i hope there is something that can be done to stop the dislocations so you can well and truly feel as though your'e making a recovery!
keep up the great work you must be doing something right!!
take care,
claire x
(ps your PM made me laugh! sorry not replied yet not felt too great these past two days but will try and reply tomorrow!!)
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on October 14, 2007, 12:51:22 PM
I will keep my fingers crossed that your VMO improvement has a reducing effect on your dislocations. I don't know how you manage to cope with so many of them! What a stress on your joint structures they must have. Go, go, VMO!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on October 14, 2007, 02:12:33 PM
thanks everyone,
claire - hope youre feeling better, no rush on PMs - just good to know youre still around - youve always been really encouraging to me - thanks for that.

kathy - I like the new mantra - GO GO VMO!!! perhaps someday I can make a dance for it :)
Theres times I wonder how Ive managed with all the dislocations too but actually when the muscles are so weak like mine they dont hurt so much at the time, you just get sore after, Im hoping I can reduce them alright.

I probably wont have another 'big' bit of improvement news for another few weeks - but Ive feel like I have a new lease of enthusiam about doing the physio - which is lucky really cos I was getting VERY tired of exercises day in and day out with no change!!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Lattitude 61 on October 14, 2007, 05:34:36 PM
Congratulations! Always good to have proof the hard work will pay off. So glad to hear you are experiencing this new gain.
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: maria1985 on October 14, 2007, 06:26:19 PM
ahhh congratulations tanya i'm so glad that you are experiencing some improvement, i'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.
keep us posted.

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kimmyxs on October 14, 2007, 07:18:56 PM
Wow, what a wonderful outcome from such hard work!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: hil13 on October 16, 2007, 01:28:38 PM
Hi Tanya
Congrats to you. Your hard work has got you a result, keep going.
I taking your advice very serious. Keep us posted.

Good Luck
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on October 16, 2007, 02:18:02 PM
Hi Everyone - thanks for all the encouragement!!!

Id like to report that my PT was very happy with my newly firing VMO, and very interested in my story of electric shock feelings. She thinks strengthening may go faster now that Ive gotten the muscle firing.

Another new development - since it started firing I can 'feel' the muscle pulling my kneecap medially when I do my exercises. And today I noticed I could feel that medial pull when I walked. Its a little sore (probably its not been pulled medially for ages) since VMO started firing, but the ache actually reminds me how a knee should feel if you know what i mean??

Oh and the other new development is that VMO feels like a tired muscle after I exercise now - before there was no feeling of muscle fatigue, there was no feeling of anything there.

GO GO VMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on October 16, 2007, 02:52:38 PM
I have my next physio appointment on Thursday. I'll be interested to see what he's got to say about my VMO muscles. I have hollows where they should be! I can actually get a faint flicker out of my left one when I contract my quads but only with concentration. My right is even worse, but it does work briefly with effort. I think my physio is more concerned about my general joint alignment (or lack of) for the time being. I guess because even walking can do damage if alignment is off. I do have things to do to prevent the releases from tightening up again, but I imagine VMO work isn't far off.
Keep up the hard work Tanya, and GO GO VMO  ;D
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on October 16, 2007, 03:05:19 PM
Hi Kathy,
If you can fire them at all and theyre just weak from disuse I wouldnt worry too much. You can always work on a muscle that can be fired.
The trouble with my VMO was it wasnt firing AT ALL. And the annoying thing is that I went to a PT practice for over a year and a half who didnt try to address it and in fact may have made the problem worse by getting me to do leg extensions that only served to cause an even bigger imbalance!!!

We live and learn eh? These things can take a while to sort out.

In the meantime Ive opened a whole new world of pain pulling this darn kneecap medially - no wonder VMO switched off!!!!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on October 16, 2007, 03:27:23 PM
Hey Tanya,
Who was it that said "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"? Well you've proven that! You have the good action of VMO firing, and the bad (opposite) reaction of PAIN. Maybe I won't mention VMOs at physio this week  :-\ Doesn't sound fun.

I know all about useless PTs. The one I went to when I was younger did lots of passive stretches (patellar mobs maybe?) and taped the joint, and told me to concentrate on contracting my VMOs whenever I thought of it (not much at that age!). I had no real feedback from the physio (or the OS for that matter). I assumed that when the pain went I had been "cured". My PT now is much better. I have several different exercises and I know what they all do, and I've had useful feedback.

I'm not overly worried about my VMOs. I realise that any contraction is useful, but I also realise that it's going to be a long road to restoring them - I feel pooped just thinking about it!! :P

Hope your pain settles. Will keep my fingers crossed for continued, and less painful, VMO reawakening for you.

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on October 16, 2007, 03:58:54 PM
Hi Kathy,
I feel pooped thinking about my rehab AND your rehab!!!

One thing I keep wondering - if all this rehab actually works, and I dont need to spend so long at it some far away day in the future - what the hell am I gonna do to fill the time then!!!!!

Oh Kathy - I meant to tell you my VMO on my good leg is HUGE now from all the squats - but there was no pain involved on that side :)

I got my GP to prescribe me anti-inflammatory cream - use it at night when Im very sore - its been helpful for The Awakening.....
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on October 16, 2007, 04:29:16 PM
"The Awakening"! Very appropriate! I'll have to keep the anti-inflammatory cream in mind, just in case. All these little tips might come in useful one day. At least they don't take up room like many of the other things I hoard "just in case"!!

I don't know how I fit rehab into my life - especially seeing as I have to repeat everything twice (once for the left, once for the right). I have so much stuff to do piled up that I'll have years worth of things to do by the time I finish all my rehab...if ever. Right now I feel as if I will get through this lot of rehab and it'll be time for more surgery...and more rehab!!!

You must look very lopsided with that huge VMO next to the nothing one. At least my knees are matching - yay, I can go out in public looking decent  ;D Actually, I've given up caring about how I look. I just want to be comfy. Bought new shoes this week to make myself feel better. Wow they're good. Lots of cushioning, and support for my overpronating feet. Of course they're trainers and look real sexy (NOT) but WHO CARES. I'm comfy  8) (The "new shoe glare" is a bit much though!).

Whoops, it's nearly 1am here. Am too busy reading up on everyone's knee stories. Time has flown. Think I'd better get to bed or I'll never get up in time to take the kids to school.


Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on October 17, 2007, 08:36:55 PM
Its funny you mention the lopsided thing, i was outside a shop with big glass windows today and I noticed that I DO LOOK LOPSIDED!!!!

like the new shoe story - im in trainers for the past 2 years, I even wore them with dresses away, I glued little glittery sequins to a black pair for dressy usage :)

I had a lot of pain today - my knee was hurting while driving which is unusual - but I dont mind, its just Awakening pain :)
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on October 17, 2007, 11:59:58 PM
Love the image that comes to mind - you in your sparkly trainers, dress and lopsided legs admiring yourself in a shop window!!! Sorry, my 9 year old daughter does the shop window thing and the way she looks is hilarious. She primps and preens, tossing her hair and tilting her head from side to side - my imagination automatically has you doing the same!!!!  ;D Actually, it doesn't take much to switch to me, with my sticky-up hair (just had it cut and bits of it keep trying to stick straight up), my glow-in-the-dark (well, almost) trainers, and the faded navy shorts I plan to wear to physio today with knobbly knees (red scars and all) and lilly-white legs showing (just coming out of winter here). Gross!  :P

I still manage to wear my "nice" shoes out, but my idea of nice shoes isn't fancy. I usually wear pants (my knees ache if they get cool - even most of my shorts still cover my knees) so I have a half decent pair of slip on black "work shoe" type shoes that are reasonably cushioned. And I have a pair of hiking boots I wear when I need more ankle support - I nearly broke the bank trying to make sure I got a light, well-cushioned pair.

The sharp pain I have been having at times in the back of my right knee has now appeared in my left, so I am pretty sure that it's the exercises or surgery that's triggered it. Was getting worried for a while that I'd torn something or had some debris in the joint, as I could wiggle my leg around and the pain would go. I am thinking that it may be muscle spasm or something now and the wriggling movement I do breaks the spasm.

Physio today! Get to spend half an hour with my hunky physio! Mmm, mmm!! At least he's better at time management than my OS. I might get out of there on time today (was really late last time because I saw the OS too).

I am starting to get nervous about returning to work next week. Don't know how I'll go. Am sure it'll all be fine, but it doesn't help the nerves whenever I think about it.

Must go. The kids need to get to school.

Bye for now,
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on October 18, 2007, 08:16:09 AM
Damn! A crappy day! I hate these! Nothing has gone wrong in particular but I just want to cry! How irritating!

Physio was ok. A bit of a non-event. We talked about my pains - he picked up straight away that all was not quite right. First, the pain in the front of my right leg just below the knee seems to be from scar tissue and irritation of something. No probs, just need to massage my scars harder and more often (like 3 times a day isn't enough!). The pain in the back of my left knee seems to be from some swelling and irritation. He can pinpoint the exact spot and it hurts to push on it. The pain in the back of my right knee is a worry. Because I can get rid of it by wiggling my leg, and he can't localise the pain to a particular spot, he's worried it may be debris in the joint. Bummer. I haven't had it for nearly 2 days now, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I do have swelling in the back of both knees which I didn't realise as I can't see there. Have to massage that too. Have lost extension in my right leg (probably due to the pain, as I can't fully extend when it hurts) so I have to push for full extension. No new exercises - just bump up the weights for the straight leg raises to "put some meat on those bones" as he is fond of saying (I must admit, my knees are a bit knobbly). He will get me walking outside for exercise once everything else settles down. Won't see him for 2 more weeks. Oh, and I got some neoprene sleeves to keep the knees warm. Gee, wow.

Felt a bit low after that so went for some retail therapy. Bought some track pants (sexy  8) ) and socks (gee, what a fashion queen!). Still want to have a good cry but the kids are home now. Don't know what it is about doctor and physio appointments that get me down, but I usually feel this way after them all. I think it's so nice to have someone focus just on me and my knee problems that it's a let down to face the real world where my disability isn't immediately obvious and I'm struggling to come to terms with my restrictions but nobody sees it. Hmm. So nice to have somewhere I can vent though. Thanks so much for being here.

Well, I have starving kids to feed (nearly wrote feeding kids to starve!!! Ooops). Might have a shower and put on my new tracky-dacks and socks first. Then I can do my exercises and get all sweaty in them! Maybe I'll do the exercises first!

Bye for now and thanks for listening,
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on October 18, 2007, 09:43:56 AM
You may just be having soft tissue problems in the back of your knees either. I was getting a sharp pain in the back of mine that I could wiggle away OR I could force my leg to full extension and there was a loud 'crack' that I could feel and then the pain was gone, itd build up again once relieved. OS muttered tendons at me, PT kept saying it was probably tendons had me doing stretches to alleviate it, then I discovered off my own bat that I could make the pain come at will by doing 1 leg squats, and crack it away - took me a while to realise it was happening from me not contracting my quads when straightening my leg - thats why I could produce it on 1 leg squats - I was using my back to get up the wall as it were - it was only when my VMO started firing I discovered it - I havent had it in a few weeks now since the Awakening has begun. Presumably it WAS tendons getting confused cos the quads werent doing anything.

I hate the straight leg raises - they are really hard!!! Im up on a lot of weight now - but they stay just as difficult for weeks without changing weight....

Good to hear youre still walking the catwalk of fashion - Im your fashion sister on the other side of the world :)

I ALWAYS feel down after the OS and PT appointments. Its stressful!!! Do cry if you need to - its important to let it out - otherwise it festers inside - you feel much better after a cry - my boyfriend is used to me periodically letting it rip and turning into screaming crying loony woman for an evening. Its normal, pain is very wearying.

Hey stop starving those kids!!

Oh and speaking of feeding/starving - dont forget to make sure you eat plenty of protein to give your body something to build muscle with!!!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on October 18, 2007, 01:55:40 PM
I hadn't thought of protein input. I haven't been thinking too hard about what I eat. Gee, I make a really good nurse - we push extra protein on lots of our patients at work but I forgot about it when I came to my own rehab!!

I'm feeling better now. Had a committee meeting (for Scouts) so I got out of the house and got to chat with friends and shared a few jokes. One of them even remembered that my birthday is soon and gave me a pressie. A great pick-me-up!

I am sure the exercises I was given last week have stirred up ALL my pains. I am just thrilled that my physio is a good one. When I walked into his room he asked me what was troubling my knees, and he picked up the exact moment the pain kicked in when I was testing out the braces by walking down the hall (even with my back to him). He also knew exactly which exercise to get me to do to trigger one of the pains, and told me what to do to help relieve it. I pay a fortune for just a 15 minute appointment, but it's worth every bit. Health insurance covers some of the cost, but it's still on the expensive side. I don't have to go very often though. I have to do all my exercises at home. When I see him he does a quick progress check on extension, flexion, and how I am going with the exercises. Then he does a quick massage to check how the scar tissue is breaking up. This visit he checked out the pains and organised the braces. Then he tells me what exercises to do before I see him again. He seems to pack quite a lot into 15 minutes.

I'm the ultimate in trendy at the moment, in my faded PJ pants and one of hubby's old t-shirts.

How's The Awakening going? Are things getting more comfortable? Do you have good muscle strength in the rest of your knee from all those SLRs? I have calf exercise to do too, to help realign things. Hope they work - lots of knee surgery is contraindicated if alignment isn't good. The calf exercises certainly stir up lots of discomfort, so something is happening.

Well, another set of exercises needs doing before bed. Oh, to not have to do SLRs ever again!

See you round,
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on October 20, 2007, 10:49:47 AM
 ;D Tanya I have came home to your great news. I am so pleased for you. I sent you a postcard but no doubt it will arrive way after me. Struggled to get internet access, there was a business centre but felt a bit out of place me standing there in shorts, t-shirt and wobbly leg :)

I am really delighted for you, did you have your meeting with your PT or has all this happened since then ????

I am so pleased for you
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on October 20, 2007, 11:07:22 AM
Hi Joanne,
youre such a sweetie!! No card yet - Ill let you know!

How was your trip? Did you have fun? I missed you posting here!!! Hows the knee???

My VMO started waking up around 3 weeks ago, a day of sort of twitchy electric shock type feelings in the muscle for the day and then after that I could just 'feel' the muscle. I did dislocate after that, so I didnt notice much change for a week or so, then suddenly I realised when Im doing my exercises that I can actually contract it properly now - the exercises feel so different - it did feel like I was just bending my leg about, now it feels like I am using a muscle to control that bending.
I had PT last Monday - I told her and showed her my new working muscle, she was very impressed (and she is HARD to impress!!), its still not firing automatically yet, I can manually contract it at will, but it doesnt do it without me thinking about it, but this is more or less exactly what my OS said would happen, one day thered be enough muscle fibres for it to just start working. My PT says when it gets bigger and stronger itll start firing automatically. Ive a new lease of life for my exercises now :)
Its brought with it a lot of pain, my kneecap has not been getting correctly pulled medially for so long, it hurts, but Im hoping that will also die off as the muscle gets stronger.

It doesnt feel much different in everyday life yet, but hopefully that will come when it starts firing automatically!!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on October 20, 2007, 12:32:37 PM
Wow Tanya that is so good I am delighted for you.

Keep going with those exercises, I bet you do them all the time now !!!! You will be our role model  ;D

My knee didn't like the heat or the walking. My kids on the other hand loved it all, Disney daft !!!!

Anyway I spoke to my PT who had a meeting with the OS and they are going to brace my knee to begin with. Then they may do further muscle testing, EMG testing or something. I will find out more next week when I see my PT. I have also been told of a specialist sports injury PT who is meant to be excellent with knees in Glasgow and I will go see him too for advice as well I think. It can't do any harm at this stage.

I am over the moon for you, when I left you were quite disheartened so thats great progress.
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on October 20, 2007, 01:44:50 PM
Hi Joanne,
Im so glad the kids had fun - and you know what, you were worried about the trip and youve done it now so thats a success for you too.

I did 10 minutes on my treadmill this morning, I concentrated pulling my VMO in on each step. Its tiring!!!! Im going to try to get up to a half hour each day (with the rest of the exercises), Im really pushing for it to do its thing automatically!!

The more people you see the better - any new set of eyes might bring new advice. Ill be interested to hear about your muscle testing. I think Im resigned to knowing that although Im making slow progress everyday life isnt gonna change much for now. I did the isokinetic testing in PT last monday, Id gained 18.6% more strength in my bad leg - that was in 7 weeks since last test. So progress is slow, but my PT says so long as its a steady upward crawl dont worry about it taking time.

I WAS very disheartened when you left, my attitude has definitely improved, even though my pain levels are up. I dont really mind the pain, its the instability I hate.

I even went out for a few drinks last saturday night - i brought crutches to elimate the worry of possibly dislocating. It was grand! I didnt mind about bringing crutches cos otherwise I just probably wouldnt have gone - so its better to get out, its not like I would have done anything but sit on the couch otherwise, and that wouldnt have been using my leg anyway!!!

When do you see your PT again?
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on October 21, 2007, 07:41:38 PM
I have to phone tomorrow morning to get an apt and take it from there. My knee is very unhappy right now its maybe the abuse it took on holiday or the change in temp but its sore sore sore  :o. Stairs are a nightmare just now and the sharp pains bhind the knee are ever increasing so I hope whatever they do helps.

I am so pleased things are progressing and out for a drink or two is always a good sign...any Guiness in there by chance ??????

Its great to hear you so positive, keep going we are all behind you YAY !!!!!!!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on October 22, 2007, 09:28:20 AM
I betcha your sharp pains behind the knee are happening for the same reason mine did - I finally realised it was from putting weight down through my leg, straightening it up and not engaging my quads. The tendons in the back of the knee dont like when your quads are slack while you put weight down through it and straighten up. Its not happening me since my VMO started firing - instead I get soreness in the front from pulling in my VMO :)

I reckon your knee is getting sorer just from being unsupported. I am much the same, sore sore sore.......

Are you still doing your exercises every day? Are any of them getting easier?

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on October 22, 2007, 10:16:58 AM
I would have to say no not really on that one. Right now my SLR are harder than ever I think any muscles I used on holiday are totally fatigued. I read up on the EMG testing they mentioned and must admit I don;t fancy it much but if it gives a solution then hey ho I have to do it. Waiting to speak to my PT today and see what they are going to do.

You sound cheery today so thats great, sorry about the pain but the enthusiasm you now have is wonderful :)
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on October 22, 2007, 10:28:14 AM
Dont worry about the EMG testing - I just read up on it there too - I wouldnt imagine its too bad at all.
You definitely sound like youre just not firing. I hope they give you e-stim - its worked a treat for me. Obviously my strength is still rubbish but I can make the muscles contract now which is a big change!!!
Ask your PT about e-stim.

Ill give you the link for the e-stim I use - I dont know if its available outside of Ireland, but it might be - and youre only across the water so it might be a place for you to start if you need one, at least you can read up on it.

Ah sure, pain reminds me Im alive :)

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on October 22, 2007, 01:27:29 PM
Thanks Tanya, we aren't that far away at all :)

Phoned my PT who is speaking to the OS this morning and wants me to come in on the 30th as there is a Donjoy rep in and they want me to try various types as my legs are not very big as he put it. I have long legs but they are fairly slim and probably one is now very wobbly with no muscle tone. So he says I would need to try them as one that is not correct fit would be worse.

So he will phone later today after he confirms things with my OS.

The joys, I don't know where its going at all. I am concerned about the whole mobile patella issue and the fact that they feel my knee can't grasp the new biomechanics since the LR. I hope something changes soon !!!

Well at least your pain is a good pain - thats a result in itself. For every pain you know something has worked !
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on October 22, 2007, 01:45:49 PM
Hey Joanne,
Have just read that you have been having pains behind your knees. I've noticed a lot of LR people who have complained of the same thing. I've had them in both knees.To start with I had stabbing pain behind my right knee that was so bad I couldn't walk. Then I got it in my left but not so bad (my left is my better knee in general). I was wondering if it was due to muscle strength. I have had swelling in a small pocket behind my knees (hard to find) and my PT thinks that something's getting irritated. The pain has eased off recently though. Just hope it stays that way! What sort of brace are they getting you? I'd be interested to see if it helps. Will keep my fingers crossed!

Tanya - hope things are still on the improve. Has the pain eased any? What's e-stim? And EMG testing? I guess I'll have to look it up and stop being lazy!!  ;D

Bye for now,
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on October 22, 2007, 01:50:33 PM
Ive heard good things about Donjoy braces, dont have one myself.

Can you see the difference between your two legs and the muscle bulk on them?

What did they do your original LR for?
Im sure something will change, if you can just get those muscles firing you will start making progress.

Kathy - Im less in pain and more just tired leg the past couple of days. Honestly since VMO started moving my knee feels so much more tired after exercises - I guess before the muscle wasnt getting used at all so it didnt tire - now that Im using it I keep getting that fatigued feeling in it.
e-stim is electric muscle stimulation - its a device with sticky pads that you stick to muscles and it sends a small electric pulse into the muscle causing a contraction. Can be useful to get muscles firing again.

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on October 22, 2007, 08:44:36 PM
I went o the OS because my knee was sore, any time I was on my feet a long period or did activity it was really sore that night. It felt at times as if it was clicking and just didn't always seem right. I went to a chiro who x rayed it and they said the patella was way out of alignment. So I went to the OS who said I had a tilted patella and thought I would be doing good if I wasn't down to bone on bone. They done the LR and they said inside looked pretty good and wasn't as bad as they thought.

After the LR I had continual swelling and pain, catching and slipping feeling. So in Aug a new OS said there must be mischief and done a scope. He said it looked fine and just cleaned up some rough areas behind the knee cap. All seemed good for a couple of weeks but then the swelling increased again and now my pain is increasing again. I get sharp pains behind the knee cap especially on stairs. I get aching in the knee and tightness down the outside between my thigh and calf and still feel as if I have slipping inside at times.

So they done biofeedback, strap sticky electrodes on my muscles in my quad to see if they are working. I contract them and it measures. It showed they were not working ( my PT became a bit more sympathetic now as prior to this I think they thought I wasn't trying enough). Now they want to put me in a brace but want the Donjoy rep to come to see me at a PT session on the 30th provided my OS agrees to it. They have also talked of EMG testing which I believe is where they stick needles directly into the muscles and use these needles as electrodes. Its meant to feel like an intramuscular injection and can be stingy and uncomfortable but not unbearable.......ooohh I am so excited about that one ....not  ;)

So my PT said he would call me back after speaking to my OS again, so at present I am just waiting to see what happens. This cold weather (or at least the change of hot on holiday to cold here) leaves me with a constant ache in my knee.

Happy days, roll on VMO activity like Tanya. I must admit Tanya even my PT feels they are stabbing in the dark and they said they didnt want to discuss more options until we do this. What is the 'more options' thats what is rattling round my head. I wonder if the LR actually solved my problem or gave me one  ???
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on October 22, 2007, 11:53:18 PM
Oh boy, changes in weather. Yuk! We've just had a cool change come through and boy are my knees giving me trouble. On top of the weather ache, the dog ran into my knees causing them to hyperextend, so that has only added some extra stiffness and swelling to the mix  :( Oh, and I return to work tonight, just to complicate matters more!

I felt that things had loosened in my knees after the releases. I am guessing that I had no VMO action to hold things in place, wilted quads, and now I have no retinaculum holding them in place on the other side so they're bound to feel a bit slip-slidey. I have had more problems with buckling since the releases, but not a lot of pain, just aching - but I am down to bone so I think that will never go away until I get the knees replaced. If your last scope showed all is well then it's probably all soft tissue problems. Hopefully as your knee gets used to the change in position of the patellar and you get those muscles working better then things might improve. Swelling compresses a lot of things too. I was amazed at the amount of pain I had from the small patches of swelling behind my knees. I am lucky I don't swell much at the best of times, so it has eased off fairly rapidly with massage and rest. And my patellae weren't lots out of alignment so there hasn't been a huge adjustment either.

Just remember that you have had two lots of surgery fairly close together and your knee could be one that takes any interference as a major insult. Try to rest when you can (I know, I hate being told to rest too) and hope that once your muscles are working as they should then things will improve.

EMG testing sounds like so much fun!!! NOT!! Hope my PT doesn't suggest it. Haven't started VMO work yet. Am trying to correct my overpronation first, before it causes more damage. My lower legs constantly ache from all the exercises to realign things, and I get all these weird stretchy feelings around my knees as things move differently to normal during the exercises.

Tanya, I can understand why your VMO is feeling fatigued - I'd feel fatigued too if I hadn't worked in years and suddenly I was asked to work several times daily!! Great to hear it's still working though and wasn't just a flash in the pan. Things are on the up and up!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on October 23, 2007, 09:42:39 AM
Hi Joanne and Kathy,
Joanne - particularly because of the biofeedback results it does sound like your muscles are (a) switched off and (b) not yet used to doing their new job since the LR.
I understand what you mean about the PTs thinking youre just not doing your stuff, that happened me for ages, and Id be sweating away at home then back into PT for another round of 'geez - youre just not making any progress'........
I think your OS is gonna have to give some input here about next steps for you - mine jumped in at the news that my VMO just wouldnt fire and insisted on an e-stim and then called me back in after 2 months to see was the muscle contracting after 2 months new physio and e-stim. He told me on the second visit that he had feared the muscle was paralysed - he hadnt told me that first time, but once he ascertained there was some activity - no matter how small he said it was just a matter of hard work and e-stim from me for the next 6 months to a year. That was just over 2 months ago and although everyday life is no different Ive got a visibly different leg now and hopefully someday soon the VMO will fire automatically. I did discover a new trick last night - I can extend and straighten my leg in the bath, as though its in mid air except its in water, and it feels more stable. Up to last week I would only ever extend it with my foot on the ground or my thigh on a chair. So its progress, small but progress.

Kathy - oooh I hate the changes in weather too!!
I think that loosening sensation is real - i always thought it was from weak muscles letting everything slide around much more. If you get the muscles up big and strong you should be less slidy?
Have you tried glucosamine for your bone on bone? It might help....its only herbal so worth a try.
I get the weird stretchy feelings too - I dont like it!!
Yeah the VMO is DEFINITELY controllable now - I just wish I didnt have to THINK to contract it each time. But Im sure that will change as it gets bigger and more nerve fibres etc.... Its like playing a musical instrument - you have to think about your hands and what they are doing while you learn and then one day you just forget about your hands and they play the notes without you telling each individual finger what to do. Its my favourite muscle memory analogy :)

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on October 23, 2007, 03:44:20 PM
My PT phoned I go next Tuesday at 11am and the Donjoy rep will be there with several braces to try. My legs are pretty thin so they are concerned about getting one with a good fit. My OSa was happy enough with this, however my chiro gave me a brace to try over summer when I went to visit family and wasn't making progress with the PT. It didn't do any good then or at least there was no difference in swelling or pain etc. Maybe a new brace may help I don't know.

trying to stay positive but when they are telling me they don;t know what to do, my OS has been approached and he has just told my PT to try this and if it doesn;t help go to EMG testing.......will that tell anymore than the biofeedback ?????

This just seems to be never ending saga now. I have more pain now than I had 6 months ago. I don't seem my patella maltracking, but then I think I would only notice it if it ws jumping out of place. I do feel a crunch or mild grind at times though so don't know. I just really am having a fed up day. Do you know what I hate most, the fact that in everything I do i notice my knee. Like you get up and you don't feel your elbow so to speak, its there but you dont notice it. I hate that when I open my eyes...even actauuly alseep I feel my knee, when I wake up. It just aches .

Anyhow I have fingers and toes crossed that the VMO / brace etc will work.

Anyhow hope you guys are having a good day with all that working out :)
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on October 23, 2007, 03:52:44 PM
aw joanne - Im with you there - I always say to myself 'i wish the forgetting would begin' - as in - i wish i could forget i have a knee like i forget i have an elbow!!!
you only notice cos its so achy. im exactly the same as you.

on the subject of things we hate - i hate people saying 'hows the knee?' - i mean how do you explain.......

new brace might well help. different braces support in different ways, and the correct size is vital. its worth a try anyway joanne - anything conservative is worth a try.

I assume he means if this doesnt work - as in if it doesnt help get your muscles firing again? He could be right here - if the brace helps with the pain, the muscles might not be so inhibited, and may start doing their stuff.
If not - then the emg tests are the next logical step. Im not sure exactly what they tell but they must be worth something else they wouldnt be a step on the path right?

Im having a sore day.....but only when I walk its sore, not just sitting around so thats not too bad......

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on October 23, 2007, 04:23:12 PM
That sounds like a grand excuse to me to sit , feet up with a cup of coffee or glass of wine tonight Tanya. You have earned it :)

Thanks for all the input, if only I could jump to the end chapter of this sorry saga and be as bright and cheery as you. You are indeed a shining star to so many here .
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on October 24, 2007, 01:04:04 AM
Hi all,

Tried to post you guys before heading off to work last night, but the stupid internet connection pooped itself and I ran out of time. At least I achieved my goal of distracting myself from the nerves of starting back at work!! Work wasn't too bad. I didn't have to do anything I shouldn't, unless you count moving around when my knees were saying REST!!

My knees are telling me I've overdone it this morning. I pottered around the house yesterday, then worked overnight and man has it played havoc with the knees. I tried to put them up at work, but I have coccyx pain and the chairs weren't the right angle for me to put my feet up and not get a pain in the proverbial  :P So I let them dangle and am paying for it. The cooler temperature on nights doesn't help much either. I think I've pretty well accepted the fact that I need a job change, as long as it's on my terms and I don't get forced into leaving work due to my knees. I am seriously thinking of getting a cane for days like today. I tried to do my SLRs and barely squeaked out a few trembly ones on each leg. I will be sleeping soon (once the pain relief kicks in) but I don't always have the luxury of resting when my knees are like this. Some support would be useful as it won't take much to knock me over or trip me up when I'm like this. And my knees buckle more when they're having a bad day. Will have to ask my PT about it. I don't want to cause problems for myself later on. I bet he'll tell me that I have to take time to rest when my knees need it - I bet he doesn't have kids!! Or a husband  ;D !!

Crikey how I hate that question "how's the knees?"  >:( They usually turn off once I tell them the surgery went well, and they don't listen to the "but". My offsider at work (we have two of us on each ward) happily told me to rest while she did a lot of the work, but I'm sure that'll get old pretty quick and they'll start resenting my limitations. I don't mind doing my fair share, but it was obvious last night that I was aching and not up to being on my feet too much. I am just hoping that the LRs have reduced the pressure on my patellae and slowed the progression of the OA, as I feel that not much else has changed. The OA ache is back and the knees still buckle and crunch. So much for the year or two of relief the OS suggested I might get.  :'( To give him credit, he didn't make any promises and I think even he had no idea that the OA had progressed so far. He did a fantastic job of the surgery, so I have no issues there. I certainly don't feel any worse, apart from lateral stiffness (which improves with stretching) and slippy knees, which I think is due to the release itself loosening things up and muscles not grasping this yet (they will adapt eventually).

Oh dear, I am starting to dribble crap again and half of what I type has to be corrected. I think the pain relief is sending me gaga  ;D Goodnight. I think I was leading somewhere but I don't know anymore...oh well...I might think of it later. What a saga this has turned into. Better go. Bye bye.

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on October 24, 2007, 09:22:38 AM
Hi all,
Joanne - I want you to be my new consultant, suggesting glasses of wine and rests for me - youre a great consultant!!!
Sure Im only in the middle of the book as well, my final chapter will probably be the one where Im on the deathbed surrounded my dozens of great grandkids all shuffling to try and get a deathbed promise of my riches and Ill manage to wheeze out 'will someone take that ice off my knee now please...........' :)
OR - we'll all live so long that medical technology will have advanced to the point where they grow you a new limb if necessary and we can then complain to each other 'yeah, I really preferred my old right leg to look at, the toes were neater....' :)

Kathy - well done on going back to work, and YES definitely get a cane if itll help you!!! For sure, youre way better to protect your joints for the long term. What about wearing standard knee support braces - just the neoprene type that you get in a chemist - would that help you for support?
Work will get easier as you get more used to it - but you probably do need a job where youre not on your feet so much - can you transfer within where you are now to a desk based job? The only thing is, the more youre on your feet the stronger those muscles will be - its catch 22 isnt it?
Im really glad you got through the first night anyway.
And yes - the muscles will adapt to their new roles.

Im pretty good today - feel more stable but have soreness. My muscles may be adapting to the wake up call but they know how to complain aloud!!!
Drivings been hurting the past couple of weeks - never did before - its cos Im actually engaging that darn VMO that all this pain is here - but Im sorta welcoming it cos it took SOOOOO long to get it going.


Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on October 24, 2007, 10:51:49 AM
Howdy everyone!

I have got neoprene braces - I live in them. I find I have to take them off at intervals to give my skin some air and relieve the areas where the hole over the kneecaps are. The holes seem to invite all surrounding flesh to drop in for a visit and I get bulges of flesh hanging out of the holes getting puffy! Maybe the braces are a bit snug, but they feel ok and the PT was the one who got them for me.

Love the image of that icepack on the knee till the very last! I think if I come back to haunt everyone then I'll bring with me the faint odour of thawing peas and sweaty neoprene!!  ;D

Book me in for consultant Joanne - I like her form of therapy!!

I am going to see how work goes with time. Currently I think I have got good balance between activity and sitting, so it'll all depend on what's expected of me regarding manual handling. I managed to help turn people, as I can lift the beds up so that I just get a mini mini squat happening, and then I grab hold, lock my knees in place, and lean back, using my bodyweight to do the work. So far that's all the manual handling I have to do with our current patients, and not often. They are pretty mobile in general. I plan to keep my eyes and ears open for a job with no manual handling, but I think I have some time up my sleeves yet. I think if I get a desk job then I'll have to be vigilant about exercise - walking, exercise bike, SLRs etc. I think I need some activity in my job though, as sitting down for too long is just as bad as standing for too long.

My knees have stopped aching for the time being, but the sharp pains are lurking. Must get busy massaging. It seems to help.

Well, need to go and clean up cat sick in my son's room.

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on October 24, 2007, 11:46:53 AM
hehehehehe - how did you know I carry round the odour of thawing peas and sweaty neoprene???? I reckon its a very attractive combination!!

I hate wearing the neoprene cos I start getting itchy behind the knee, in the crook, and it drives me MAD!!! I also get the puffy extra bits of flesh hanging out, and for some reason my skin inside goes all sort of clammy and dead person like......

Youre so right about the working - part of my problems are cos I have a desk job now and I drive, i used to have an on my feet job (10 years ago) and when I got my desk job I cycled to work for a few years - but the past 6/7 years I havent had much in the line of daytime activity. You do need to keep up some form of exercise - I did use an exercise bike for the past few years but my VMO had already been quietly atrophying away......

get your son to go get sick in the cats room - let kitty see how it feels :)

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on October 24, 2007, 01:58:28 PM
 ;D I have cats too and funnily enough they were sick yesterday...I was in bear feet and almost walked through it. The joys.......

Now as for me being a consultant, here is what I prescribe. The three of use could go somewhere hot(ish) and rest, enjoying a few well earned drinks from fruit smoothies to cocktails...between the painkillers of course and all delivered bu our handsome waiter at the poolbar :)

Ahhhhhh it sounds appealing, at least we could walk like bookens with a limp or two between us :)

Hope you are all doing ok. My knees are sore today. I'm getting more pain even just walking sort of behind the knee cap down towards my lower leg bones and I definitely feel more of a slip or click or whatever it is today. I laugh about it today as I am tired of groaning, phoned my doc for heavier painkillers so hope to get those tomorrow.

How are you all ????? ( Go pack your cases, we leave for virtual vacation - for rehab purposes of course - tomorrow :)  )

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on October 24, 2007, 02:06:18 PM
oh i cant wait!!! can we have our hammocks delivered to us at the poolsides and be carried from there to the restaurant in the evenings too?
in fact - can we just have loads of handsome poolside waiters bringing us things ALL the time???
will the handsome guys be able to get us some heavier drugs for the evenings???
will we be able to pay someone else to do our physiotherapy exercises???? and we can just watch and imagine how hard it feels??
yes to all the above???? where do i check in!!!!

hurry up......i need you guys to bookend me!!!!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on October 24, 2007, 08:53:13 PM
 ;D Got my case here and all ready my bookend pal :) I have checked and ensured that all waiters are handsome and also alls et to do PT on our behalf, oh this just gets better and better Tanya  8) 8) 8)

Aaahhhhh, hammocks, cocktails, sun, no sore knees....can you just imagine  :)
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on October 24, 2007, 11:51:03 PM
COUNT ME IN!!!!! If I get someone to do my SLRs for me then I'm happy as a pig in mud. I can just watch and admire how my replacements muscles flex with the 2kg weights he has to lift, instead of wondering where my muscle has gone AWOL to. Just have to get the three way bookend happening. Kitty is definitely not coming on this vacation!!  ;D

 8) Kathy  8)

Gimme this sort of rehab anytime!!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on October 25, 2007, 10:01:10 AM
welcome to day 1 of our virtual holiday - i so enjoyed the lovely breakfast that was served to us this morning by the seriously handsome waiter at the pool.
Can you believe the heat in the sun from such an early hour? And the muscular guys to rub the sun cream on??? Its fantastic - all that heat is helping my knee......

ah...theres my replacement PT person - wow - lookit her go with those SLRs - GO GO VMO!!!! she's a great girl!!!

ooohh....she just told me Ive had another small improvement, I dont have to fight to engage my VMO coming up out of a squat anymore!!! wow - I love my virtual PT lady!!! thinking we chill here by the pool for the day, theyve got some dancers and other entertainment for us to watch round lunchtime if we like...what? no no no, we dont have to move, the dancers will dance up to us!!!

nice bikini Kathy - and Joanne where did you get those sunglasses??????

cheers girls!

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on October 25, 2007, 10:36:02 AM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Better and better.

You know I think my legs are looking toned, these replacement rehab girls are doing a great job. Tanya I see one of those gorgeous waiters has their eye on you  ;) lucky girl !!!

My sunglasses hide the eyes from that wild night out we were able to have last night. Now that we can wear high heeled shoes and dance the night away carefree with no wonky knees. Today we can just kick it and chill all day 8)

Kathy, you are looking very chilled out today. I am lovin this virtual holiday. Pity we can't bring our virtual knees back with us :)
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on October 25, 2007, 10:47:12 AM
What a cruisy holiday!! I am finally getting a tan on these lilly white legs (no sunburn dare appear on THIS holiday!!) and those hollows are filling out nicely thanks to the endless effort put in by my PT pal. I can at last wear shorts and skirts (and bikinis!!) with pride!!

Loving the warmth - it's just right, not too hot, not too cold. I've had the masseuse working overtime so I feel nice and relaxed. So nice not to have to move. All the entertainment we want is right here!!

Girls, I must say that this is THE best rehab facility in the world! I would recommend it to anyone! So nice to have our consultant here with us too. No more booking in and waiting weeks. We can just ask away! And what a prescription this is!! Works wonders. A magic cure!! FANTASTIC  :D

Bottoms up girls!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on October 25, 2007, 10:59:12 AM
joanne - youre legs ARE looking very toned!!! your rehab girl is great!! she's been giving great encouragement to my one too. hehehehe - I see my waiter has brought his friend along who is giving you the eye!!! they are such handsome fellas!! lovely proportions!!
i told you last night - its all that tequila is giving you the redeye!!! hang on - ill give a shout for the hair of the dog for you!

Kathy - how are you getting such an even tan??? and so quickly!! I want to borrow your tiny black shorts one of the nights - theyd look great with my high heeled silver sandals!
Im impressed with your swimming too - I noticed a lot of people admiring your form in the pool, youre like one of those water ballet girls!!

I see they have a dancing competion in the hotel ballroom later in the week - we should sooo enter, we'll be able to dance rings around all the ordinary people here with our toned legs!!!

hmmmmmmm......time for a snooze, feel free to read those magazines, im done with them for now.........

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on October 25, 2007, 12:51:13 PM
I can't help but read and giggle each time. This is therapy in itself :)

Tanya, you will be doing your own version of Dirty Dancing tonight, having the time of your life  ;)

I must say Charlie's angels eat your heart out, we have this thing nailed  ;D

Yup, what could I prescribe next...hmmmm tonight we have a BBQ on the beach to watch sunset. All cooking done for us, a lovely marquee set up with rugs and pillows to chill out and our waiters will have all the drinks and food lined up.

This virtual life is sounding way better than my day here, if I could fit my wonky leg through this screen I'd be tempted to climb in if only it was possible.

(Isn;t it funny that we are getting so thrilled with a good VMO............ folk that didnt know  about knees would wonder what on earth we are talking about. They are probably going I've heard of VPL but what is VMO oh God have I got it, must find a mirror to check my butt )
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on October 25, 2007, 01:50:57 PM
you definitely dont have a VPL - Im surprised youre wearing any under those skimpy shorts!!

and here in our virtual holiday destination we all have giant VMOs - I watched Rocky recently and I was fascinated with Stallones VMOs :) (and the rest of him but if you ever want to see what a VMO is shaped like - watch Rocky)

Im lovin the virtual life, my rehab girl just done my midday exercises, wow - it looked like hard work!!

Im all on for the Dirty Dancing - will we be getting Patrick Swayze lookalikes though??? You know he has had a lot of knee surgeries too - so he'd understand how we all feel!!

Oh Im looking forward to the BBQ tonight, we should bring the rehab girls and make sure they eat plenty of protein so our muscles have fuel to build up!!

Isnt it a lovely theraputic life here? I heard theres a boat trip later in the week too......cant wait.

I heard from the real world that Id have a sore knee this afternoon if I was in my real glad im not :)

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on October 25, 2007, 07:10:32 PM

I got your postcard - you were so sweet to think of me - thank you so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It really made you a real person - as opposed to a virtual internet pal :)

Please PM me your address, I want to make myself real to you too!!!

You PM yours too Kathy - its fantastic to get something in the post from a virtual friend!!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on October 25, 2007, 11:57:05 PM
Hey, what about VBL?? I now have to worry about the line of my braces showing through my pants!! The patellar hole in the neoprene just adds to that ultra-sexy look  8) NOT!!!

I'll have to make a note to check out Sly's VMOs next time I catch him on the screen - I am curious to see what my legs are missing - besides the sun!

Dunno about Patrick Swayze. He was gorgeous but did you see Dirty Dancing 2? He looks really old and worn out (bit like my knees really). He didn't seem to keep his looks like Richard Gere, Sean Connery or Harrison Ford. Actually, Richard Gere can dance, maybe I'll just borrow him for a dance partner for the evening.  ;D

Got a postcard from my real life knees - they're not having a good time and they're so envious of my virtual knees.

A boat trip sounds great! Maybe we can do some fishing and catch those virtual fish that fillet themselves - fish is very high in protein, and great on the BBQ! Not having to pick scales off the kitchen surfaces for weeks would make it extra special (hubby hasn't quite learnt that the kitchen is NOT the place to clean and scale fish!).

News from the real world - bought myself a walking stick. Now I just have to get used to using it when I need to. The kids love it but it made my other half feel old - he turns 40 in a few weeks and is really dreading it.

The OA ache has settled back in my knees, now I am back to normal activity (work, housework, kids stuff). All the LRs have done is reduce the pressure from my patellae and hopefully slow progression of the OA. I haven't felt much benefit really, though my knees don't grate quite so loudly - doesn't change my restrictions at all.

Don't know if this is common to anyone else but I have noticed that since I have stopped squatting, and all other similar loaded activities, my knees now have no control whatsoever when I have to go down a step or such. They get to where I do mini squats to and then it's a matter of letting go and hoping for the best. It's a situation in which I have lots of my buckling episodes. I try to avoid steps but some are unavoidable. I actually tried a PWB squat by holding on to something, but it felt really wrong and very uncomfortable. Don't quite know how to sort this one out. Must ask my PT. He says I need to be able to kneel, but I don't know how I am supposed to get down and up to do it.

Will PM soon. Kids have something called "school" that has weird expectations - they actually have to be there at a set time each week morning. Very inconvenient!!!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on October 26, 2007, 09:26:57 AM
school????? thats asking a lot to want to be there at the same time every day isnt it!!!!

oh kathy - I embrace my 'holey knee' look - if people are nice I let them stick their fingers in the hole and feel my squashy extra bunched up flesh there.

I cant recommend Slys VMOs highly enough - I was thinking of writing to him and seeing would he lend them to me.
Ill take Patrick Swayze anytime - but only younger Swayze - he has started to look feline with plastic surgery - but when he dances he looks like poerty in motion. Love him in To Wong Foo - Thanks for Everything Julie Newmar - such a handsome woman!!
Im sorry kathy - we'll both have to agree to step back and give Sean Connery to Joanne - lets the Scots stick together. You can have Richard Gere - Ill go with Indiana Jones :)

Embrace your walking stick!!!! You can also use it to swat people on the behind if they are misbehaving. You can turn into a sort of garrulous old woman type grumbling and waving your stick about :) I hope its helpful to you and your knees.

Do you take anything for the OA? Supplements or anything like that?
Lets hope the LRs will slow its progression.

Definitelt ask your PT about the buckling/squatting situation - there may be other exercises that will strengthen the relevant muscles without doing any damage. I always let myself just fall down steps too - although technically I should be able to not fall now as Ive improved my step downs, but its different doing your exercises in a controlled environment and then actually facing a set of steps with other people using them too in real life.

I was sore sore sore yesterday, used the anti-inflamatory cream in the evening - it helps. However Im much more stable and less sore in the mornings!!! It all comes on over the course of the day with the PT wearing my knees out.
But I must be getting somewhere - I actually feel quite normal for a few minutes in the mornings!

Now - back to the holiday - mmmmmm......more mint juleps by the pool.....that fish was yummy last night Kathy - and check out our rehab girls - sooo toned and fit looking - my virtual legs look so good. Its amazing that theyre so smooth and waxed looking too :)

Cmon ladies - lets go for a swim to wash away the cobwebs this morning. Kathy stop hitting that man with your stick - oh sorry, came back to real life for a minute there!!

Joanne - how are you doing?

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on October 26, 2007, 10:57:15 AM
Waxed reminds me of something I thought of lately - now that it's extra hard to get to my legs to shave/wax, I have more people than ever looking at them!!

Haven't gone down the supplement path yet. They are all so expensive. Have contemplated it lately though. If I can find a decent brand that isn't too pricey then I'll try it for a while - I think 3 months is the recommended trial period.

The pain behind my right knee is back today. Ouch. Needed the walking stick for sure - thankfully I had it at the time. Great to hear you are having some moments of normality Tanya. Makes everything worthwhile I bet - all that PT etc. Okay, back to our rehab...

Mmmm. the water is so warm this morning. Just right to ease that early morning stiffness (just as well we're girls, or that could be taken very badly!!). The dancing was wonderful. Nice to have a dance partner who doesn't step on my toes. I wonder if Joanne has found some people who want her advice? She seems to have gone AWOL. So hard when you provide such great care - you are always in demand.

Must order ourselves some more cocktails (complete with little umbrellas) - the next round is on me!

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on October 26, 2007, 10:59:21 AM
ssssshhhh...joannes off with a handsome waiter, i saw them dance off into the moonlight last night :)
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on October 26, 2007, 11:12:47 AM
Just sent you both a PM. Hope I did it right.

Hope Joanne's rehab girl has been working extra hard recently - she'll need the muscle to cope with dancing off into the moonlight. I am just happy to be soaking up the ambience. How relaxing.
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on October 26, 2007, 03:36:40 PM
well it must have been a good night on holiday in that moonlight because this morning was a different story. Either that or its the Tramadol my GP prescribed and I took for the first time last night. When I tried to get up this morning to put my 6 year old to school I was punch drunk on it, couldn;t speak and was so tired. My other half had to do it all and I went back to sleep until 11.30 this morning which is unheard of in my real life.

Now back to virtual, the only hang over was from cocktails and by the way ladies I saw you two learning how to do the lambada with those Italian waiters. This morning you seemed to know way more than Ciao and Bella, I see you have been learning some Italian on the side  ;)

Aahhhh postcards ready to be written and sent home ladies.

So here goes..

Dear friends at Knee geeks

We are having an amazing time. Knees superlative, athletic and we have legs to die for ( did you like that ;D, have we ever been able to use such happy adjectives about our knees). Weather is amazing as is the talent... (take it you guys know what I mean by talent......the variety of handsome men available  ;)). No VPL, VBL in sight. In fact I have just watched Tanya enter the Miss Holiday contest and at present she is balancing on a beam over the swimming pool dancing enough to make my VMO jealous. Kathy is at the bar getting us all another cocktail.
Hope you can all join us soon. Got word from home that our real knees wish they were here too, but we couldn't afford to bring them, would spoil all the fun.

Lots of love and hugs
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: trainwreck on October 27, 2007, 06:00:25 AM
oh my you fine fine ladies have me rolling on the floor.  please, please, may i go on vacation with you?  i promise  not to behave. 
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on October 27, 2007, 07:07:03 AM
Allison, welcome!!

The more the merrier - but we will hold you to that promise not to behave. Can't have good behaviour on virtual holiday. Oh, and leave your real knees and any cats at home!!

Man, Joanne, what dose of tramadol are you on?!! I've tried it before and it just makes me feel nauseous. One 50mg capsule is ok if it's the only dose I take for ages. If I have a second, with the first or within 6 hours of the first, I start feeling sick. If I need extra relief I take paracetamol with codeine (the OTC type) on top of the Tramadol and they go well together  ;D Most of the time I stick with OTC paracetamol with codeine tablets (Panadeine) and add ibuprofen with codeine (Nurofen Plus) tablets if I need something more. I really need to get something stronger for the odd occasion, and possibly try something for my nerve damage as the numb patch, small though it is, burns away constantly some days.

My behind the knee pain is back! I am really starting to worry that I have a loose body in the joint. The pain comes on with no warning and goes just as quick. The other pains I get sort of niggle a bit first, as I move around, and get stronger if I fail to rest.

Crikey, I sound like the walking wounded. I think it's time to return to the virtual world...

Mi parlo Italiano! Sort of.  ;D Those waiters had a lot to say!! And man can they dance the lambada - I have always wanted to learn but my hips could never get the gyrating quite right. Maybe because I never had a teacher as good as those waiters! I'll have to go find me a sexy, flirty short skirt to dance in tonight. Gotta do the lambada justice!!

Postcard time...

Dear Knee Geeks,
I highly recommend a virtual holiday to you all. My knees have coped so well with things they haven't done in years. The weather is just right - no harsh temperature changes here!! Perfect for all those weather sensitive knees out there. It's just fantastic having someone do my PT for me. All those extra SLRs I got my rehab girl to do have certainly paid off - and I got to party instead of doing exercises!!
Hope you're all keeping up your exercises!!
Big hugs all round,
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on October 27, 2007, 10:37:07 AM
 ;D YAY ALison, welcome to Costa Kneenosora :)

GReat to have you here with us. Kathy your hips were looking fab last night, they were girating and certainly had soul last night. You outlasted were running on duracell batteries I think :)

Wheres wee Tanya this morning...she slinked off for some fun on the beach...they were gonna do limbo dancing :)
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on October 27, 2007, 10:58:11 AM
Whoo-hoo! Limbo dancing!! I haven't done that in years and years. I remember doing it under broomsticks at birthday parties when I was in primary school. We must arrange a competition sometime!

That's me - the Duracell bunny!! Costa Kneenosora gives me boundless energy  ;D

Where are you off to Allison? Looking hot in those strappy sandals...and I've never seen such a skimpy bikini. You'll get a great tan! Must introduce you to the Italian waiters - or have you met someone already? I noticed some of the beachgoers eyeing you off when you arrived. Wait till your rehab girl does your exercises. She'll lift twice as much weight on those SLRs and your knees will be toned and tanned in no time!  :D

You go back to sleep if you need Joanne. You must have had a late night  ;) It's so peaceful sitting by the pool in these comfy deckchairs. I could certainly do with just a touch more sleep.
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on October 27, 2007, 04:10:23 PM
Just had a voicemail from our rehabers, they have managed to up the weights on SLR and guess what, next week the braces will not be required. I actually think they are working up to ask of they can come here on holiday. However I took the liberty of saying until we never need to see an OS again then I'm afraid they need to stick to contract and rehab those VMOs until they look like a smaller version of sly's VMO. Toned, strong and ready to be Mrs Slyvmo :)

Aaahhhh another pina colada by the pool......oooohhhhhh new talent arriving girls, heads up :) VMOs out :)
Kathy want a magazine to read , I have some here ? Haven't seen Tanya today yet, did you hear she won limbo dancing, wow is she flexible or what. She had the lifeguards gazing after her after managing to bend so low....those legs are strong now :)

Alison ,need a drink ???? By the way did I see you dancing on stage last night with the band ????? I know they asked for everyone to get on their feet but you leapt like a gazelle up on stage and took them at their word, you go girl.

Ahhhhh might need more sun protection on, its getting quite hot  hmmmmmmm  :)
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on October 27, 2007, 04:12:45 PM
 :-X oh it was 100mg Tramadol I think, they warned me it could cause drowsiness but man I was spaced  :-\ zzzzzzzzz

Much prefer the idea of a hangover after a night of dancing :)
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: *Margaret on October 27, 2007, 04:55:46 PM
ok i am going to join in on the fun. what is planned for today, let me know
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on October 27, 2007, 07:40:32 PM
Yay ;D another VHM....virtual holiday maker

and no VPL or VBL in sight :)

Left a note pinned to our chalet door

Were at the pool bar
Come join us there
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on October 27, 2007, 07:48:39 PM
Guys hurry hurry Tanya and her waiter have entered the talent show.....I hear them practising. Tanya has on a lovley little ....actually miniscule pair ow white shorts with her bikini top and they are singing.

Can you hear them ????

"Oh won;t you stay, just a little bit longer..........>"

I know that song.........I think we can all join in with a resounding yes we have moved in actually, did noone tell you ?????
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: *Margaret on October 27, 2007, 08:11:14 PM
yes i can hear them.
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on October 28, 2007, 12:55:37 AM
Woo-hoo! You go Tanya!! I never knew you had it in you. You might win the grand prize at that rate - I know you are just hanging out for that boxful of bikinis!! You'll never have to wear the same pair twice!

Moving in? Wowee. It won't be a virtual holiday anymore - it'll be a virtual life! Goodness, I think Allison's eager to stay - look at her tearing across the beach with all those suitcases. She's quick to move her things from the hotel to the beachside chalet. And look at all the waiters - they've paused in what they're doing to watch her in motion!!

Hey Margaret - you can have this magazine if you like. I fancy trying some water-skiing. It's been a long time and I want to see if I still have the knack. You can join me if you'd rather not read - you too Joanne. I just need to make sure my bikini is tied up tight - don't wanna lose it!!!  ;D

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: *Margaret on October 28, 2007, 02:54:27 AM
ofcourse i will go water sking with you only if you go parasailing with me

i think i am going to move into one of those beachside chalet too
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on October 28, 2007, 03:37:03 AM
Parasailing!! Wow! Something I haven't done before. Well I'm always game for something new, so count me in.

Wonder where the others have disappeared to.  ???
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: *Margaret on October 28, 2007, 03:49:36 AM
i do not know, but i love going parasailng.. so much fun.... it is so quiet up there.

maybe they are sleeping but we can not do that!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on October 28, 2007, 03:38:18 PM
Hellooooooooooooooooooooo way down here on the beach I am waving to you two way up there. Wow Margaret your bikini looks tiny from here. I think they wrote that song for you about the yellow polkadot bikini :)

Have fun you guys, wow you are high.

I am off for a massage, an afternoon at the spa. Tanya must still be recovering from last night.. lucky girl ;)
Where has Alison gone, last I saw of her she was going to sign up for bunjee jumping.
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: *Margaret on October 28, 2007, 10:35:22 PM
i am getting ready to head for a night out on the town anyone comming with me?

had a wonderful time parasailing and water skiing that was so fun.

joanne- yes that sog was made just for me  ;D
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on October 29, 2007, 12:26:45 AM
Bungee jumping!! I was just reading a thread on that!! I don't think I'd ever get up the guts to jump off a perfectly good platform. Allison must be game.

I'll come for a night on the town Margaret. I saw some of those sexy Italian waiters headed that way earlier  ;D

Enjoy your massage Joanne. I might try one a little later - actually, it might help me recover from my night on the town. Maybe Tanya could do with one - she's been very quiet lately.
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: trainwreck on October 29, 2007, 12:47:27 AM
yup i would bungee jump. that is right up my alley.   sorry i missed you guys earlier was galloping down the beach on my beautious horse with some eye candy.  he had dark hair, blue eyes and a six pack to die for.........

where in the world is tanya?  i hope she is ok.  i have noticed she has been very silent and i do not like it one bit. 

i think when donna feels better we need to get her over here too.  she would be an exciting edition and it would make her happy.  i am sure she would want to bring rick with but thats ok.
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on October 29, 2007, 10:33:14 AM
Yay do tell her Allison, send her a wee postcard from us and she can come over. Rick can be our security, after all with these waiters and hunky men around it would be good to have someone to keep them all inline ;)
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: shortyclairebear on October 29, 2007, 08:00:18 PM
hi tanya!
i hope you are still doing well!
sorry not been about much!
my backlight conked out on my laptop so i have been without it for 2 weeks! i have missed it so much!!
take care and i hope your knees are being good to you!
claire x
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on October 30, 2007, 01:17:07 AM
Hey Tanya! Are you out there? Hope your absence doesn't mean bad things are afoot! Your knee better not be giving you grief or I'll come there personally to whallop it back into shape.

If things aren't going well then just know we're all thinking of you.

Take care,
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on October 30, 2007, 10:16:06 AM
Hi Guys!!!
Sorry Ive been quiet, in the virtual world I was off having fun with my latest lifeguard conquest :) Does he have a hot body or what????

In the real world the home pc started to make noises like a plane taking off and has been unusable so I had to wait til I was back in work today to get online!!

Sounds like we're all havin great fun - I see we got some new arrivals to the holiday of a lifetime?? Its been such fun here - I think Im gonna stay on - i can be like Shirley Valentine!!

When are we doing the bungee jump? Cant wait!!! Its so strange - I thought my rehab girl was just working out my leg - but it would seem my whole body is looking better and better!!!!

Postcard to the real world:
Dear Knee Geeks,
Having a ball, decided to take a physio break for the past 2 days with the result that Ive had no pain at all - which has been great. My rehab girl appreciated the break too - she rocks!! Been so busy having fun that i almost forgot to tell everyone - theres a ski trip organised for next weekend - amazingly its a hot ski trip - so itll be bikinis and skis on the day. Theres an Irish dancing contest that evening - anyone can enter - I think our gang should try Riverdance - we should surely win!!!
Having fun........
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on October 30, 2007, 11:42:19 AM
Hey Tanya, Welcome back! So relieved to hear it was only your computer. PHEW! Had visions of hearing you'd had surgery or something disastrous! Either that or you'd gone on a REAL holiday without telling us!!  ;D Now you need to go and make plane noises at your PC and see how it likes it! Tit for tat  ;)

My real knees took themselves to PT today. Having a bit of a worrying time with a suspected loose body in the right knee. Hope it isn't but have to keep a diary about the pain. BORING! Otherwise all else is well. I am now allowed to do little lunges. Just to get some control. But no creaking allowed - well that pretty much rules out my right knee as it creaks almost as soon as it's bent! I also found out that once my muscles are stronger then I'll be allowed to do steps to improve my control, so that I have some functional movement in my knees. Scar tissue is breaking up well, and ROM is good. Just have to keep my real fingers crossed for my OS visit in two weeks - no loose bodies allowed!!

What do you mean by having a bikini ski trip?! Don't you like the sexy puffed up look of snow suits? They go so well with new trainers and lilly white legs!!  8) Actually, I'm surprised anyone can get any skiing done in those puffy things - they look so restrictive. You wouldn't want to be busting for the bathroom!!

I'd better start rehearsing my Irish dance routine. Riverdance here I come! (oops, nearly wrote coma!)

Must fly. The real world has too much to do in it at the moment.

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on October 31, 2007, 08:36:54 PM
Just doing a jig here whilst I wait on you guys to join me :)

My virtual hol came to an abrupt reality bump back at real PT yesterday. Was fitted with a knee brace . I said to him I am praying this does what you want it to do but if it doesn;t is this it, am I out of options. He said I don;t want to answer that just now, I will answer that in a month or so.

and then went to see a new sports specialist PT. ( I haven't told my original PT I was doing this). Anyway no miracle cure news. He thinhs my patella is sitting medially today...rather than laterally and he says much of what the PT says. He also said he cant rule out future surgery :(
It makes me wonder is that what my PT meant too. I mean what surgery is left to help, I thought that would make the muscles worse. I hope the brace does whatever it is supposed to do.

How are you all doing ? Hope all is well with you guys.

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on November 01, 2007, 04:25:32 AM
Hey, must be the week for crappy thigs to happen. I am still troubled by this pain behind my right knee. I now have a little swollen patch there too. It drove me up the  wall at work last night. I have a HUGE (about 6mm diam) mouth ulcer from sleepless nights and stress, and it just happens to be on the side of my tongue. OUCH! It hits my teeth when I talk, chew and drink. I am burning the candle at both ends trying to get all these dance costumes out of the way so I don't have to think about them any more. Not that I am able to sleep well when I do!

I managed to find someone who wants to sell their exercise bike! Yipee!! My PT will be proud of me.

Far out, must go pick up the kids. Don't think they'd be too happy if I left them in the rain at school all night!

Think I'll return to the virtual world - it's much more fun. I'm out to find a virtual chocolate shop!!  ;D Anyone else coming?!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on November 01, 2007, 09:15:33 AM
right there with you, I am finding a chocolate fountain and actually think I may climb in and just wallow like a pig in S*** ! I'II just sit there surrounded by strawberries bobbing up and down in the waves of chocolate and I'II eat my way through them without putting on an ounce of weight ...since its virtual.

Aaahhh smiling already  ;D
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on November 01, 2007, 09:26:21 AM
you two are cracking me up - joanne, i fell around laughing at you casually mentioning your jig :)

Glad to hear the dance practice is going well, after the rest I gave my rehab girl she has been practically lifting cars on the SLRs - but she still has some work to do to get a SlyVmo, however she seems enthusiastic.

Well after last nights crazy party, kathy I didnt realise you could use a unicycle with such precision, and joanne Im VERY impressed with the limbo dance routine, I think today I might just calm things down and was thinking we could all go on one of those pedal boats for a trip round the bay? I think we can do some diving too - weather sure looks great for it!

Has anyone got any painkillers - for my hangover - not my knee which I must say is looking better and better each day we're here!!!

In the real world Ive had a good few days, been mostly pain free - that 2 day rest I took from exercising really helped me. My VMO is still on stick shift (manual), but Im hoping the day of automation comes soon, I think its taking less effort from me to contract it too and now when I walk I can actually feel the muscle trying to tighten up, its tiring though!!! Im up to 15 mins on the treadmill!!

joanne youre never out of options, its just what the next options are. What exactly is the purpose of the knee brace - is it to get you tracking better? That might allow those lazy muscles to start doing their thing if they think it wont hurt. How long do you wear the brace - I mean iduring a day - do you keep it on at night too?

kathy - we will be expecting great things from those toned legs now that youve got an exercise bike!!! set it up in front of the tv and pedal away to your favourite shows, helps the time pass. wow - youre gonna have a great booty from biking :)

so, eh, I know its not even 10am but Im off to the bar, cocktail anyone????
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on November 01, 2007, 10:12:33 AM
Believe it or not, we actually do own a unicycle!! But the kids are the only ones who can ride it - I can't even sit on the blasted thing while holding on to something!! Pretty freaky that you chose unicycle out of all the things you could have said!!

Why not bring some drinks back and add a bit to the fountain Joanne has found?! Cointreau and chocolate. MMMMMM!! And strawberries...even better! I think I'll go and wallow with Joanne. I'm getting hungry! ;D We can work off our fix with the pedal boats, followed by the diving Tanya mentioned. Something else I haven't done in years.

Is anyone up for a moonlight cruise tonight? I think I need a peaceful evening. I plan to get back into the swing of things with some rockclimbing tomorrow. Oh, to be staring up at the backside of a handsome hunk of humanity as he climbs ahead of me!!! Be still my beating heart!! I'll be creating a river of drool tomorrow! Get your paddles out everyone!!  ;D

Tanya, are you still having to go to work to get your virtual reality fix? Or is the computer all better now? I wish I could access the internet at work. Too many people played internet games so they blocked the internet to most staff. Only a select few have access. Not me. Just have to wait until I'm home, and do other things at work. Speaking of which - I need to be getting there shortly. Must go pack my bags.

Bye for now,
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on November 01, 2007, 10:34:51 AM
I plan to get back into the swing of things with some rockclimbing tomorrow. Oh, to be staring up at the backside of a handsome hunk of humanity as he climbs ahead of me!!! Be still my beating heart!! I'll be creating a river of drool tomorrow! Get your paddles out everyone!! 

rolling about the floor as I can just imagine Kat's face as she turns to smile down at us with well toned buttocks just a few inches above her :)

AAhhhh the brace apparently is to rest the muscles in the hope to reduce inflammation and then hope they will then start to work again. The new sports PT didn;t think it would do much, he felt it may even make them more lazy but understands they are trying anything and everything now.

I just don;t really see it going anywhere and I am scared that after this then they just say thats it. The sports PT said I am the worst "case" for any PT to take on as once you have had surgery and it hasn;t worked you are left with someone who still has a variation of their original problem that hasn't been cured plus the trauma of surgery  - now twice. He said the quads are quick to get lazy and to get them working fully is not impossible but its a very very hard struggle especially if we are working with a de-sensitised knee mechanism. He said the front knee mechanism (patella, muscles and everything attached to it) is crucial and once it loses its sensitivity it forgets how it should move and where to sit and the problem spirals outwards to muscles etc.

So I am not very focused as I am still doing exercises - he gave me slightly  harder ones but to do them much less but with real focus. so we will see, on an upnote he said i had nice legs :)
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on November 01, 2007, 11:23:58 AM
Believe it or not, we actually do own a unicycle!! But the kids are the only ones who can ride it - I can't even sit on the blasted thing while holding on to something!! Pretty freaky that you chose unicycle out of all the things you could have said!!

Why not bring some drinks back and add a bit to the fountain Joanne has found?! Cointreau and chocolate. MMMMMM!! And strawberries...even better! I think I'll go and wallow with Joanne. I'm getting hungry! ;D We can work off our fix with the pedal boats, followed by the diving Tanya mentioned. Something else I haven't done in years.

Is anyone up for a moonlight cruise tonight? I think I need a peaceful evening. I plan to get back into the swing of things with some rockclimbing tomorrow. Oh, to be staring up at the backside of a handsome hunk of humanity as he climbs ahead of me!!! Be still my beating heart!! I'll be creating a river of drool tomorrow! Get your paddles out everyone!!  ;D

Tanya, are you still having to go to work to get your virtual reality fix? Or is the computer all better now? I wish I could access the internet at work. Too many people played internet games so they blocked the internet to most staff. Only a select few have access. Not me. Just have to wait until I'm home, and do other things at work. Speaking of which - I need to be getting there shortly. Must go pack my bags.

Bye for now,
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on November 01, 2007, 04:13:37 PM

Hope all is well with you, how is everyone else doing ?

Anyone seen Margaret or Allison ?

 :P Parched here and fed up, got a postcard from real rehab and it sucked, spoiled the mood so figured another cocktail may help, off to virtual holiday bar -VHB with no VBL (unlike real life) and definitely no VPL.
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: trainwreck on November 01, 2007, 04:36:46 PM
sorry you are having a bad day joanne.  real life really can suck at times.  my knee is misbehavin bad too.  maybe it is somthing in the air.  maybe we should try to well the little buggers on ebay.  i would love to replace mine with one from an elephant.  how bout you????
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on November 01, 2007, 06:47:49 PM
so with you on that one, though I'd get done on ebay for lying cause I doubt anyone would want mine  :)

Nice to see you here, hope its not causing you too much hassle, I was feeling pissed off and read poor Donna's news and thought my life aint too bad and that bucked me up a bit.

Good to see you here, I want bionic woman knee, cheap at the price, lifetime guarantee and no rehab required.
Anyone know any ???????
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on November 01, 2007, 07:07:44 PM
my last post disappeared into the ether :(
but i got to quote you kathy - so obviously still a partial success!!

joanne sorry youre having a bad knee day. i was thinking maybe we could all vote for our favourite new knees, my own personal favourite is gonna be.................The SlyVmo :)

would you guys believe my good knee twinged at me today? i gather its tired doing all the work of everyday life - it does get a laugh when it watches the bad one working out 3 times a day though.
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on November 01, 2007, 09:54:50 PM
I've had a few of those disappearing posts - very irritating to have to think of what you wrote and rewrite it all again! It never sounds as good the second time around. I can usually tell they're about to happen though, as I get an extra addition to my screen, so I copy my post in case it doesn't work - then I just need to paste if I have to.

Kids are arguing about who watches what TV. My daughter is in a foul mood because her school pants, which have been fine until now, are suddenly no good because they make her boyleg knickers bunch up and it's too hard to look for normal knickers (well, she wanted the boylegs, so I bought them, and only a few normal ones for under leotards). Gee, the world must be ending!! It's so hard to be nine! I've gotta laugh though. She gets so cross at the world sometimes. I hate to think what she'll be like when she hits puberty!!  :P

Hmmm...whose knees do I want?? I'm not really sure. Maybe I'll trade with my OS so he knows what it's like to have my knees. Actually, my PT has nice legs - I'll have some like his, but minus all the hair!!

I think I might go and look for a memory foam overlay for my bed - bring a little of the virtual world to the real one! I find foam mattresses really comfy and I have wanted an overlay for ages. Betcha my hubby hates it!! It'd be just my luck! Oh well, then I'll have to buy a mattress and overlay for the spare bed, for those bad nights.

I wonder if elephants ever get knee problems....?

Joanne and Allison - sorry to hear about your bad knee days. Hope they improve soon. I have other things to take my mind off my knees, so I'm cruising knee-wise. Just sleepless and stressed and dreaming of sewing line after line of stitches and sequins!! Hey, I could send you some of my sequinning and you could do that for me!! It'd distract you from your knees!

Bugger! It's time for school again. I swear this is becoming real inconvenient!

Mattress shop, here I come!!!

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on November 02, 2007, 07:53:55 PM
I know real life chores are now becoming such an inconvenience aren't they. I mean didn;t they read the small print. we are on VH !!!! ::)
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on November 03, 2007, 02:15:38 PM
guess what ladies - I HAVE HAD ANOTHER IMPROVEMENT!!!!

Yes, and a very subtle but VERY welcome one.
Yesterday I was away from my desk in work, outside having a smoke, chatting to one of the warehoue guys. When we finished we got up and walked back in and it was only as I got to my desk I realised, I hadnt been walking like Lurch, I hadnt even thought about walking, Id kept pace without lurching all over the place and in fact, I FORGOT I had a knee!!!!!

Thats the first time in over 2 years that thats happened. Then I had a good think about it and realised Ive had a few 'flashes of normality' in the past week or so, at home mostly, but occasionally outside too.

Course once I started thinking about it I remembered I had a knee :) So I was checking this morning when I went to the local shops and its true - I dont feel like Im gonna dislocate on every single step. I still have a weak leg and I still cant move quick or plant it hard, but that feeling of 'oooh its gonna go' wasnt there!!! Or at least not ALL the time.

I wonder if this really is the beginning of me going back to normal????

I checked my VMO to see is it still on manual - and it is, but it takes much less effort on my behalf to engage it, I used to have to PULL, now I just have to twitch and it engages. It must surely get automatic soon!!!!

My last improvement was a month ago - roll on early december for another one to report!!!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: trainwreck on November 03, 2007, 03:43:43 PM
girl that is fantastic!!!  i am thrilled for you.  just reading that made me smile and gave me hope.  you are an inspiration today.  i cannot tell you how happy i am for you and how thrilled i was to feel your joy.

have a wonderous day.  aren't you glad you hung in there???

you go girl!!!!!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on November 04, 2007, 05:46:57 AM
 :D What great news Tanya - it's what we all aspire to, forgetting about our knees. I forgot about mine for a while today, but they are making up for it now  :( Serves me right! I haven't had experience with dislocations, but I think the instability would be awful. The buckling that comes with weakness is bad enough. You made me smile when you talked about walking like Lurch. Just adds to that sexy picture of you in my mind - you know, the one with you in sparkly trainers, dress, lilly white legs, admiring yourself in a shop window?! ;D  The image just keeps on growing!!

Whew! I'm wiped out. Just collapsed on the bed after a day at dance rehearsal with the kids. I help with backstage stuff. And sew. And sew. And sew. I worked Wed night, sewed for a bit Thurs, then slept two to three hours, sewed again, worked Thurs night, slept Friday for about five hours max, worked Friday night, sewed Saturday in between the kids activities, and stayed up till 2am, sewing, then got up at 7am for dance rehearsal. So I've had 5 hours sleep since 3pm on Friday! It's now 4pm Sunday.

I just keep on smiling about your news Tanya. It's so great to see that all that effort has finally paid off.

Think I'll go soak in a bath - my knees need some TLC. They're sulking after being ignored all day!

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on November 04, 2007, 12:13:58 PM
thanks for all the great supportive comments!!!!

trainwreck - i am absolutely determined to keep up all the hard work - it gets easier when you see improvement!!

kathy - keep that image growing, you can add slightly fluffly looking knee to it from the anti inflamatory cream sticking me to the bed, my pyjamas, towels etc...

you need more sleep than that!!! no wonder your poor knees are complaining, they want to sleep!!

come back to the virtual holiday, ill arrange for handsome buff guys to sew according to your instructions and you can snooze by the pool for the day.....
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on November 04, 2007, 08:28:29 PM
 ;D Tanya I am thrilled for you, we will have a celebration fireworks display on VH !

You keep going, you give us all hope and I am so happy for you. Thats the best news of today. Keep up the good work, I see a Slyvmo approaching  ;D
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on November 05, 2007, 09:23:06 AM
Course Im back feeling pretty much the same - but to know there are occasional feelings of normality is great!!

I wasnt quite so sore yesterday as I usually am on a sunday cooking sunday dinner and doing the ironing etc, im normally VERY limpy by the end of it, yesterday I was just limpy.

Its sooo slow though - physio is a long hard job - i need a dip in the chocolate fountain to perk me up :)
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on November 05, 2007, 11:28:15 AM
Bugger just a dip - I'm going to wallow!! I need chocolate coz hormones have hit! I'm a b*tch on wheels right now  >:(

Love the idea about having a hunk to do my sewing for me. He can get prickly rashes from all the tuille, and callouses from the heavy scissors (must get some new ones with all the money I've earned). He can go out looking like something the cat dragged in because he has threads and fluff stuck to him and he's too tired to care. He can do battle with static making fabric stick to things it shouldn't instead of staying where it was put. FANTASTIC IDEA!!!! Bring it on!! I think I'll find a spa mat to put in the chocolate fountain!

Ha! Fluffy knee! It just keeps getting better! It reminds me of the patients we get at work who wear brand new track pants over anti-embolic stockings - not a good idea! The white stockings end up COVERED in fluff (usually navy or black). I thought I'd try capsaicin cream on my knees. Some people find it very effective. I have found out how to make it at home, so it works out cheap too. Deep heat works well for me too. Haven't tried the anti-inflammatory cream on my knees - it works well on my shoulders, which play up from time to time, usually when I sleep on them wrong.

Hey, what's everyone else up to on this virtual holiday?? I think I'll wallow in the fountain for a bit, then I fancy checking out the massage therapist. A bit of relaxation never goes astray. Maybe then I'll have some energy for some dancing - anyone fancy learning how to do dirty dancing?
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on November 06, 2007, 08:26:32 AM
Hey Allison, where'd your stars go?? Have you gone AWOL on us? Get your butt back here and keep us company - you know what they say about more being merrier! Everyone else will be thinking that our virtual holiday is awful. I don't wanna be the only one here with two bum knees! Oh I know, it must have been the thought of my visible brace lines and Tanya's sparkly trainers and fluffy knee that sent you running. Don't blame you there!!  ;D Chin up and get back out of the real world.
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on November 06, 2007, 09:39:25 AM
Our virtual holiday is fantastic - I left my fluffy knee at check in :) so i refuse to take the blame - im thinking its the prospects of the rock climbing under someones butt has frightened people away!!!

hahahahaha, bring on the butts - im thinking today we line up all the handsome guys and have a cute butt contest???

and afterwards us girls can have a lovely legs contest - kathy yours are so tanned and toned these days, tough competition!!! course joanne has the advantage of the PT saying she has nice legs......and as for my fluffy one - aw well!!!

i upped all my weights yesterday (ahem, my PT girl did), so Im feeling the pain today :) but it usually only takes a couple of days to get used to.
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on November 06, 2007, 09:53:24 AM
Ooooh! Great idea Tanya. Now we can ogle butts and get away with it!! No VPLs allowed in this contest!

My PT girl is just getting back into the swing of things after having some time off (how dare she!!). In the real world it translates to "my pain has eased off and I can get back to the exercises again". I'll feel it tomorrow!!

Dunno about the lovely legs competition. It will be such a hard decision for the judges that I'm loathe to make them choose! We've all developed such fantastic tans and toned muscles - they'll just have to decide whether they prefer "fluffy knees", "eau de pea knees", "knobbly knees" or "lilly white knees", and whoever fits the criteria will win.

My PT girl has developed a crunchy knee on the exercise bike, so better hold off until PT reviews it. Poop! There goes my high hopes for bike-riders calves!

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on November 07, 2007, 08:23:11 PM
Wow but real life is no comparison. Have missed my VH ckeckins, ahhhh the heat, the beach, the sea.....I'm back to wallow in it all again.

No can do lovely legs, my knee still has the 2 incision portal scars which are still a bright purple and look like 2 beady eyes watching you. My kids sya they want to add a smiley mouth underneath to make it look nicer :)

I will however watch you guys strutt your stuff and cheer you on...cocktail in hand of course.
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on November 07, 2007, 09:32:02 PM
Hey, I think my incision scars are even newer than yours Joanne, so no using that excuse to get out of the lovely legs competition!! I still have the swelling around each scar too - and I have a set on each knee!! Beat that!!! Hey, what a great idea for a new competition....

Don't forget the chocolate fountain when you talk about wallowing, Joanne. It's probably the best thing to wallow in!!

I think I'll set up a hammock and sleep under the stars tonight. No biting insects here!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on November 08, 2007, 09:07:29 AM
oooohhhh...can we all have hammocks and just stay in them all day as well??

im sorry ladies, my fluffy, 8 inch old scar, bony in the wrong places and mostly puffy looking knee will win that lovely legs contest hands down. Just cos your scarring is new doesnt give an automatic advantage :)

My PT girl says that Im working her too hard, apparently in the real world my knee is aching lots since I upped my weights. Course here all Im see is lovely toned strong leg so Im not gonna worry about it.

Thinking we might have to check into Betty Ford or somewhere similiar if we ever come home from this holiday, every time I see Joanne she has a cocktail in her hand and the staff are beginning to think that my red eyes in the mornings are a medical condition, kathy has been more ladylike in her choice of drinks but really champagne breakfasts EVERY morning?????

Lets not go home, if we stay til christmas we get a frequent PTers discount, bit like frequent flyers but you get it based on how hard your PT girl works - come on, more SLRs!!!! more weight!!! good girl!!!

Im off for a mint julep - so refreshing this time of day :)

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on November 08, 2007, 09:32:58 PM
Well, Tanya, you must admit it's great to be able to have a few drinks without worrying about the meds we're on. Champagne breakfasts are a great way to combat hangovers by the way! You must try it sometime.

I reckon we'll concede the lovely leg competition - you win hands down Tanya. Trust you to go by the motto "bigger is better" when it came to getting your scar!! Of course, you are following the same motto with your VMO now!  ;D

Why would we want to go home? We have it so good here.
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on November 15, 2007, 02:39:15 PM
hey joanne and kathy,
how are you both doing?

i must say you both look great, all this fresh air and sunshine has really given you a nice glow. cmon - lets go for a few drinks, and maybe later some dancing.

im doing fine, ive had some improvements in the step downs, i felt like it was really difficult for me to actually unlock from straight to start the step down, but it seems to be getting easier. that area of just a teny bit bent is my biggest problem - i cant seem to guage how much or little to contract, so i hold too tight then cant unlock, or i go to bend and my VMO isnt quick enough to kick in. mind you ladies - at least i HAVE a VMO now - its still slowly growing.....

walking is still hard but im just appreciating the small improvements and trying not worry about the rest for now.

hope youre both well - joanne hows that brace going for you? kathy i see you and i are tag-teaming on responses for other people here :)
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: chaos on November 15, 2007, 02:49:10 PM
tanya it is good to see you are doing so well. i love your enthusiasm and compassion for others.  you hang in there girl.  you are making progress and i am so thrilled and proud of you.
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on November 15, 2007, 02:54:35 PM
oh thanks chaos (great username by the way!!!)
feels like a long hard slog then again we only appreciate what we work hard for eh??
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: chaos on November 15, 2007, 02:57:22 PM
somtimes my whole life feels like chaos.  oh well we deal with what we are dealt, huh???

it is a long process and the one good things about having a knee problem is it teaches you patience and for me compassion.  i will try to mever look at somone and make a snap judgement.  plus, look at all the great friends you have made due to this experience.  if you had perfect knees you never would have been here, right????
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on November 15, 2007, 03:08:30 PM
we sure do - arent we lucky to have legs with knees in the first place!!!
it certainly does teach patience, i think i need to learn the lesson of acceptance also - ive noticed over the years that life seems to try and teach me to be mnore accepting in many ways, perhaps I need to keep repeating that lesson til i get it right.
if there is such a thing as reincarnation im coming back as a jaguar - or something similiarly fast - oh to run through the forests!!!

you do meet lovely people here - its such a cool feeling to meet people who understand whats going on and the frustrations that are there with knee problems!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on November 15, 2007, 03:10:38 PM
chaos - i didnt realise you were the artist formerly known as trainwreck!!! welcome back with a COOL new handle!!!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: chaos on November 15, 2007, 03:12:09 PM
thank you girl.  great to be back. i made a bad decision but live and learn i guess.
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on November 15, 2007, 03:14:39 PM
always regret what you HAVE done instead of regretting doing nothing :)
oh and eh, bad decisions are always in our past........
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on November 15, 2007, 10:42:21 PM
hi guys, been awol have had the flu and feeling lousy so jumped back on the old VH to smile again. Yay Alison, wow new name, cool that would have confused me. I get sick and miss all the happenings here.

How is going Kath and Tanya, any more news or improvement ?????

Missed you guys :)
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: chaos on November 15, 2007, 10:44:50 PM
joanne, sorry you were sick but glad you are back. how are the knees hanging in there???
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on November 16, 2007, 09:56:43 AM
hey joanne,
sorry you were sick! hope youre feeling better, hows that knee?
mine is grand, getting slowly stronger, had 2/3 weeks of a LOT of pain, think I was pushing hard in PT, kept feeling I was on the brink of improvement, then pain went and Im suddenly better at step downs :)
Still wobble walking, but a little less wobbly!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on November 16, 2007, 11:45:18 AM
Gees, you guys have been busy enjoying the VH while I've been slaving away at a dance rehearsal. Not fair!!

Great to hear you're feeling better Joanne. I was beginning to wonder if the VH novelty was beginning to wear off  ;) I have news, but I reckon I've repeated it hundreds of times in various posts so I'll just give you the general idea. I saw my OS on Tuesday and the upshot of it is that my knees are shot and only chondrocyte grafting or TKRs are an option, but not yet - I am too young and my knees not bad enough to warrant doing it at my age. Bummer  :'(

Welcome back Allison! The lure of sand in every nook and cranny is irresistable hey?! Sometimes I wonder why we are VHing on the beach. Sand and salt can be very irritating.....but then again, I love water sports. Go figure! Anyway, I was very happy to find you hadn't left us for good. You have been a great source of support.

Hey Tanya, my problems with steps are similar to yours, except I get a bit of a bend going before I just can't get any further. I am sure some of it is a psychological block. I was able to do stairs and squats before my LRs, just very crunchy ones. Since the surgery my quads have had to cope with the biomechanical alteration caused by the releases, but my restrictions have not allowed them to adjust through a normal range of movement, so they freeze when I reach the point at which my grinding starts because they haven't been allowed to go there in any of my exercises. A bit like stage fright  ;D

Well, gotta get some munchkins into bed. They have a busy day tomorrow and are still riding the high of today.


Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on November 21, 2007, 10:35:11 AM
Hi guys

Sorry I have been quiet. Everyone got flu,little one was off nursery...chaos !

I am weraing the brace which I must say digs into my knee. By the end of the day I take it off I have a bright red circle where the whole is cut out of the brace round your patella. I think its cause my knee swells and then the swollen part pushes through the whole. When I take it off the pain comes at night and I end up having to take the heavy pain meds. WHen I don't wear it I get the ache through the day and the swelling but no the BIG pain at night when its off.

I went to see the sports specialist and he said my  knee is drooping now......I assume he means the patella and that there is no easy fix here. Maybe something needs tightened to pull things back. What could that be ????

I guess I am just a bit down and frustrated and feel I have no end in sight. I know it could be worse especially when I read your post Kat - I am sorry I hope you find a solution you can manage. How old are your little ones ???

Hey ALison, its good to see you back, I was looking for trainwreck, did you decide you wanted to have multiple profiles, pretty cool idea. Its good to see you !!!!

Hey Tanya...hows my old slyvmo doing ????? We are going to see you like Tazz round a circuit soon. I am so pleased to see you progressing so well. YOu are our inspiration.

Much love to you all. I have missed our chats :)
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: chaos on November 21, 2007, 01:21:20 PM
joanne i didn't have multiple personalities just a big melt down.  i will explain it to you someday. did a really dumb t hing and now i have a new account and new name. hoping it improve my sanity.  i really want to get caught up with your knee situation.  i don't understand the knee droop. i thought only our chests did that with age. 
good to see you baxk.  hope we catch up soon.

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on November 21, 2007, 04:07:52 PM
what!!! my knees AND my chest are gonna droop!!! gawd almighty - is there no easy way through this life - thats it - i want a new body please!!!!

well guys ive been busy in work, havent been online much - gave a training course today, was on my feet quite a bit during the day - have the achey feelings now but only of tiredness, not REAL pain. am still wobbly wobblerson, but definitely, no doubt about it, the leg IS stronger - never feel like im gonna dislocate in bed anymore, only walking - and walking slow is ok now too - must say though my WHOLE leg feels weak at this stage - not just around my knee, probably from such a long ongoing series of problems.

droopy knee syndrome joanne??? would that be the technical term i wonder :) I bet all thats happened is your weak quads are not holding your kneecap up in the position they are supposed to - when your muscles get working that should stop happening. I nearly dies when I saw some of my x-rays and there was NO space between my kneecap and my femur on the skyline views but a nice big gap on the good leg. Physio said that Id no muscle bulk holding the kneecap out where it should be and not to worry.

Oh Ive developed some new crunches and clicks also - Im sure I can 'feel' my meniscus tear!!!
thats all for now folks - gotta go try tape up my droopy bits :)

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on November 21, 2007, 07:55:54 PM
do you think they do chicken fillets for your knes to boost the droop  ;D That would be a laugh.

Its good to hear from you all again. Alison, we all have meltdown moments....sometimes I'm glad I live in a cold place as I think I would be prone to having meltdowns every day with this knee. Its good to know you are human andmeltdowns clear out the junk and give new perspective, so just hang in there  :-*

NOw come on, where are the barmen is it I could do with a large stiff..........................................................................................

DRINK  ;D :o :)
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on November 21, 2007, 09:59:56 PM
Hi guys,

So good to catch up again. Joanne, maybe you could invent a knee bra to combat the droop!!  ;D You could add chicken fillets for those of us who have no muscle. Actually, my chicken fillets would need to go around my knee. My muscles are non existent and my kneecaps look so knobbly due to the lack of surrounding muscle.

I have two kids, a boy who was 10 in June, and a girl who was 9 in August (yes they are close in age!!).

I am off to my GP today to see about pain relief. The over the counter stuff just isn't cutting it at the moment. I'd like to try something slow release, as I have woken up from the aching at times recently. Not good. On top of it all, I have been given work restrictions which are causing a bit of a fuss at work. I am hoping it doesn't impact my job too much. They are well within their rights to fire me or put me on day shift (where I have more people who can compensate for what I can't do). I'd never last a full day on my feet, though, so this concerns me. I think night shift is better for me. I am on my feet less, and it's less physically demanding. OK there are only two of us per ward, but it's not as if I cannot physically do the work in an emergency, it's just desirable that I avoid certain activities as much as possible, so I shouldn't work on heavier wards. I am hoping I don't have a fight on my hands. I just don't have the energy. Sorry, I have just worked 4 nights (10 hour shifts) and have had constantly deeply aching knees since Sunday afternoon, so sleep hasn't been good. I am feeling a bit low and sorry for myself. I'll pick up once I have had some sleep. Things could certainly be much worse!

Tanya - I have analysed the step thing a bit more, and I have realised that I am no longer feeling any stiffness from the LR sites. All my discomfort when I do loaded flexion stems from under my kneecaps. I initially had pain and stiffness in the LR sites when I stepped up/down and have been assuming that due to my restrictions I haven't managed to stretch the scar tissue properly and that is why I have been having step problems (as well as a psychological block). Now I know that the LR sites aren't an issue and that it's solely pain from the pressure on bare bone as I flex. Hmmm.

Joanne - I know how easy it is to get disheartened when there's no end in sight. Everyone has their own private hell, and they are all equally as tough. Hang in there and hope for the best. I am sure that muscle weakness is one of the causes of your issues and you will get some improvement eventually. Even I should get some improvement, as I have lots of weakness in my leg muscles. Once they are stronger then I should have better support in my knees (a bit like a brace made of muscle!!) and less aching.

Allison - how's things now? Happy Thanksgiving (now I know when it actually is!!).

How about a joke to cheer us all up....

There was once an elderly man who wanted to surprise his wife on their 50th wedding anniversary. He went to a fancy bra shop with the idea of buying her some sexy underwear to spice up their evening. He asked the girl behind the counter to get him a particularly raunchy outfit for his wife. The girl asked him what size his wife was. He was confused. He didn't have any idea about bra sizing. The girl thought she'd help him out. "Give me a rough idea" she said "Is her bust comparable to rockmelons, grapefruits, oranges...maybe apples?" He thought for a moment, then came out with "Have you ever seen a pair of spaniel's ears...?"  ;D ;D ;D

I can't laugh too much. I reckon that's what I'll end up like!! Flaps of skin with nipples!! Lucky me. I'll have to roll them up and stuff them in my bra when I get older!!

Anyway, must go. Gotta get the kids to school.

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on November 22, 2007, 09:41:24 AM
Hi all,
i always having meltdowns where i scream my head off at my boyfriend and feel sorry for myself and cry my eyes out. i usually feel much better afterwards!!! sometimes its just good to get it out! better out than in where it can cause stress related problems eh?

joanne, have you asked any of your medical people about e-stim? it sounds like the brace is just giving you more nighttime pain? Have you asked in PT whats next to try if you dont get improvement?

Kathy - that soreness at the front of your knees on the step downs - it might be tendons complaining, when I started the step downs my quads were so weak that a lot of force was being transferred onto the patellar tendon and i had terrible soreness at the front below the kneecap AND behind the kneecap - but it stopped when I got a bit stronger.

I like the idea of a knee brace made of muscle!!!

Joanne - Id LOVE a large stiff one too - a drink a drink of course!!!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on November 22, 2007, 11:56:51 AM
Crikey Tanya, I hope you are right. If some of that pain is likely to improve then I am one happy camper! Actually, I'll take any improvement at the moment.

Joanne - what a frustrating situation you are in. Better make that more than one stiff drink. I am sure you need to relax and unwind. Actually, we could all do with a few stiff ones!!

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on November 22, 2007, 12:07:29 PM
Kathy Id say when you get your muscles stronger lots of different pains will disappear - its amazing how much pain you get from weak muscles!! But I suppose if you think about it, the forces have to go somewhere and if the muscles arent strong enough to handle whatever stresses are being put on the joint then areas that arent designed to take load are gonna suffer.
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on November 23, 2007, 02:14:52 PM
Kathy, how is it going at work ? Thats a stress in itself isn't it. Change is always annoying but change when forced on you is harder.

If chicken fillets or bras helped knees I'd be floggin them :)

All that helps me these days is getting on here and I just smile :) Its so good to know you all and enjoy our stiffies together   ;D ;D ;D :P

Tanya hope you are hanging in there, I want piccies of slyvmo now, I am so jealous. You go for it !!!!!!!!

Allison how are you doing today ? I hope the pain has eased....even if just a little. I am thinking of you.

Ok girls, they are having a fancy dress night...what are you going as ?????

(Did I tell you last year we had this crazy notion...I think we were trying to recapture our youth. We had a fancy dress party and everyone chose everyone elses outfit. We cleared out our furniture downstairs into the garage and one of our friends was a DJ so he brought decks, lights and even a smoke machine....set off the smoke alarm It was histerical.

Anyway they said I had to start the night as Sandy and end the night as Sandra Dee from Grease. AAhhh I even have photos.

We had Lara Croft there, Dolly Parton, Marilyn Monroe, Jessic Rabbit, WIlly Wonka, Dwarfs, SNowWhite, Scooby Doo, Shaggy it wa so funny. We really did have great fun.

SO anyway what are you going to go as tonight ?
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: chaos on November 23, 2007, 02:20:53 PM
hey joanne would you please pick whom i should be?   All I ask is that whoever i am i don't limp or have any knee scars.  i would enjoy a killer ripped body also.  yeah, i am a dreamer  but this is a virtual vacation so it is allowed.

let me know what you come up with.  I think you should be Fergie.  she is beautiful talented and everyone seeems to love her.  it is the perfect description for you in real life .

have a wonderful day.  my knee has let up a little today thanks for asking.  mentally i am much stronger and resillient than i have been.  i can't control these crazy knees but i am in charge or my mood.  out of the pity pot for now.
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on November 23, 2007, 03:54:29 PM
Alison - please be Wonder Woman :) She has great big healthy looking thighs (plenty of muscle there!!) AND you get to do the bullets/bracelets thing - of course we wont be shooting bullets at you - only jelly beans, and you might want to catch them and eat them but you can still have fun pretending to deflect them!!!

I want to be Elle Macpherson - oh sorry I was thinking of real life for a minute there :)

Ill be Captain Jack Sparrow - ahoy me hearties!!!

I had a fancy dress party halloween just gone - I was a Geisha Girl (I wanted a costume that I could wear flat shoes) - so I got a proper japanese style dress off ebay and painted my face and arms white and did the red lips and a bun in my hair etc... except i forgot to paint on eyebrows and no one noticed at all on the night - but next day i saw some pics on a friends camera and suddenly went 'wheres my eyebrows????' - so it was funny :)

I have a pic on my pc of me as wonder woman - years ago, i should post it for a laugh.
I used to do Lara Croft too - dunno how i managed those heavy boots!!! this was all before my current knee problems!!!

Joanne I checked my slyvmo last night and it really is getting bigger!!! if id to estimate its size now id say a chicken fillet (how handy eh??), so thats a pea to a sardine to a chicken fillet!!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on November 23, 2007, 07:02:08 PM
Allison how about Wonder WOman as Tanya says...get those silver hotpants out :) or Lara Croft :) :) :)
You are stronger than you think, you have an inner strength and are beautiful. I see you as someone strong personlaity wise with the beauty to match so wonder woman or Lara Croft work just fine for me.
I can see you in wee slinky shorts for some reason ;)
I am just so pleased to hear you having good day, you are allowed bad ones but the main thing is to enjoy the good ones. Hope the retail therapy helped (((HUG)))))

Tanya hmmmmmmmmmmmm I see you as someone determined, physical and a real go getter. Stunningly beautiful ...yeah your just going as yourself actually, forget the fancy dress, just pull out your little black number ;) Elle eat your heart out :-*

Kath, I see you as someone classically elegant, an Audrey Hepburn. You know in the black dress and necklace in the Breakfast at Tiffany's.
OOhh just someone who has poise and gentleness.

Want a laugh, PM your email addys and I will show you some party piccies providing we get to see Tanya without eyebrows !!!!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on November 23, 2007, 08:26:17 PM
ive no shame so im just gonna upload these for you guys - seeing as im unrecognisable in them anyway :)

geisha girl is this year, me stirring my witches brew is last year :)
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on November 23, 2007, 08:26:59 PM
hehehehehehehehehe :)
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: norah on November 23, 2007, 09:36:30 PM
Hi Tanya.  As a newcomer I was really excited to read about you regaining control of your VMO. Since May I,ve been able to put my fist into my thigh where my VMO should be and have been told by my surgeon that it must be built up prior to surgery. Oh my god is that not sole destroying.  All that effort and nothing to show as yet. Thanks for giving me hope, but whats the secret?  I eat,sleep and breathe leg raises with ankle weights. Oh, but such pain!!!           Thanks                                                                                                                                                                                          June                                                                                                             
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on November 24, 2007, 08:49:23 AM
 ;D :) ;D :) ;D :) :) :P

Way to go Tanya
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on November 24, 2007, 02:39:56 PM
Groovy, Tanya!! You certainly go all out when you dress up!! Did the green wash off okay, or did you look sickly for a while?! I remember my daughter having her face painted, and she has very dry skin that soaks up face paint like a sponge. The red took ages to wear off completely and we were constantly getting comments about her being sunburnt or flushed.

Joanne, I'm not sure about being sophisticated! Don't know that it's quite me. I'd kill myself in high heels!!! I never wear them! Or make up, for that matter! I reckon I'll dress up as one of Charlie's Angels. They always seem to be having fun and are athletic too.

Allison, glad to hear you are out of the pity party pot for the moment - it was getting squashy in there!! Tonight's party was funny. Hubby got very drunk on booze, and I kept popping pain killers to cope with the load, and was feeling pretty fuzzy as well  (who needs booze?!). Everyone enjoyed themselves, and we'll be eating leftovers for a week! We have enough beer, champagne, and soft drinks to last us through Christmas and beyond. I must admit, I am very sore though. I overdid it big time today. And we still have to clean up the yard before we pick the dog up, or he'll eat whatever he finds (typical Lab). Oh well, I can feel an afternoon sleep coming on for tomorrow. And a good soak in the bath - it's worth all the effort of getting in and out!!

Ciao for now,
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on November 24, 2007, 04:15:39 PM
very pleased to have given you all a giggle - kathy yes, i was faintly green for around a week after :) it stayed in all my creases, so my knuckles and the lines in my hands looked dirty and mossy for a bit :)

im delighted you had a good party!! i was sore after our halloween party too but you know what - it still builds muscle to be on your feet so although you pay the next day its a fun way of using those muscles!!!

HI June,
yes I could put my fist into the hollow too!! but you know I was eating breathing and sleeping leg extensions, leg raises etc too for a year and a half and nothing. then I went to a new OS and he told me Id been wasting my time cos if a muscle is switched off no amount of 'normal' exercise is gonna switch it on cos your body will just use the lateral quads to compensate and the VMO needs an extra push. So he prescribed an e-stim machine and sent me to a new physio who gave me VMO specific exercises - you cant isolate it, but you can exercise in a way to try best to engage it. The most important thing with the leg raises is to turn your foot out by 10 degrees to get the VMO working, same for step downs, squats and lunges. Get a physiotherapist to get your technique right for this. Then the e-stim machine actually helped rebuild the neuromuscular connections. My OS said when a muscle atrophies to such a point that the nerve fibres are dead and the brain cant connect with the muscle anymore, so you gotta force contractions in order for messages to rebuild nerve fibres to come. Im a long way off from full rehab, but my VMO was hollow, then it was a pea, then it was sardine, then 3 sardines, now its a chicken fillet, (ive no idea why I always use food to describe size but bear with me :), on my good side my VMO is like a salmon steak, a big juicy one, so theres lots of work still to be done!!!


Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: norah on November 24, 2007, 10:23:35 PM
Tanya, you are something else!  I thought a chicken fillet was something I put in my bra! I've seen three different physios and they've said that the VMO wont start working till I've had surgery, but my knee specialist says that surgery wont be a success unless I have some VMO function.  I could scream!!!!  I feel so low just now.  I've been off work for 6 months because light duties are not an option in my nursing post.  I feel like I've lost my identity and am back to being "a knee problem".  I feel guilty for feeling so low because of the kinds of people I nurse day in day out. What a state I am.  Thanks for your comments.

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on November 26, 2007, 09:43:42 AM
Hey June,
I saw lots of physios who kept saying I needed surgery, then i saw the 'best' knee surgeon in this country and he said NO Way to surgery. A year and a half on I was getting worse. So I went back to the surgeon who did my original surgery all those years ago. He immediately said NO Way to surgery and also that the physios I was seeing werent addressing the problem and that he wanted me to go to this other physio that he has seen good results with. The minute she saw me she said I needed surgery. So Ive 2 OSs saying surgery will introduce more muscle dysfunction and besides if my VMO worked I wouldnt need surgery anyway, and all these physios saying I do need surgery. However, when the new physio started seeing changes she backed down and said we will keep going and review in February/March - Im due back to see her next Monday and I betcha she is gonna be surprised at how well Ive done. The hardest part is actually waking VMO up - it took me from mid June to beginning of October for it to start firing. But I knew the day it did - I felt weird kind of electric shock feelings in it for a day and from then on its been working - Ive even had a dislocation since and it didnt shut it down completely again. You HAVE to grow those nerve fibres otherwise the messages from the brain have no way of getting to the muscle.
Speak to your physio or OS about e-stim - I really believe that thats what got me kick started, it doesnt build muscle bulk, but it does force contractions in the muscle and those contractions cause the brain to start thinking about rebuilding neuromuscular connections.

I got my e-stim machine from here:

have a look at that site, they have information about how e-stim works.

Your OS is absolutely correct too - surgery will only encourage that muscle to shut down further, you need to get it working before considering surgery.

What are your symptoms June? Are you experiencing dislocations or pain or instability or something else?
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: norah on November 26, 2007, 10:54:41 AM
Hi Tanya.

Thanks for the info on e-stim.  I'm sure when I had first surgery on this knee(30 years age) I had to have electrical stimulation for the VMO then to get it going.  My right thigh is thinner than my left and always has been, but I've had problems with both knees.  If anything the left was always the worst.

I suffer from anterior knee pain. At the moment , not too bad when walking slowly in a straight line.  Up and down stairs is a killer especially down.  Straight leg raises cause a gripping pain right across the PFJ,  I have PFJA so that accounts for that.   Just to add to the fun. subluxation is a big problem.  If I walk too quickly it pops out...coming down stairs it pops out...if I just forget myself for a minute and do something in a not totally controlled manner. it pops out.  My knee is constantly swollen and you just get a reasonable ROM when it happens again.  I am on a waiting list for TTT with debridement and patella reshaping because of osteophyte formation.

Thanks June
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on November 26, 2007, 12:32:30 PM
June - besides the pain and PFJA (Im not sure what that is), your leg sounds like its behaving like mine, subluxing all the time, down stairs much harder than up etc...
A strong VMO should help a lot of that - especially the subluxing - it will help some of the pain too. Its not a bit surprising your VMO has shut down (probably your entire quad set has), cos every sublux will cause the brain to guard that muscle and not use it.

I think you really need to see a physio who can (a) help out with e-stim and (b) focus specifically on waking up VMO - you might have to hunt around for someone who can do that for you. I went through a lot of physios and saw no improvement whatsoever in VMO but finally Im getting there.
Can you make a contraction in it at all? I couldnt. Now I can - it still hurts me to but its hurting less since its gotten a bit bigger.
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on November 27, 2007, 11:46:17 PM
Hey All,

How's things? Check out the laughter thread. I've been busy there! There are some great jokes. Laughter certainly is the best medicine.

I'm off to sleep now. See you all later.

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on November 28, 2007, 09:25:11 AM
Kathy, where is it I must go look.
How are you all doing, I do need a laugh today.
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on November 28, 2007, 10:05:07 AM
Under "Quizzes, Games and Fun Contests". Title of "Laughter is Better Than Medicine". If you add a joke just keep it clean - it's been locked once already!!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on November 28, 2007, 05:56:08 PM
 :D rotfl

just as well inuendo doesn't get locked as our holiday would have got us all jailed :) ;D :D ;) ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on November 28, 2007, 09:52:14 PM
I was thinking the same thing! And I'm sure we've pulled out a few not so nice words too.

I am under the influence of hormones - so beware!! I have backache and cramps, my knees are playing up, I have used so much deep heat that my pants are sticking to my knees, and you can smell me coming a mile away ("eau du deep heat", the latest in fashionable perfumes!!). I'd better steer clear of the laughter thread or I'll get it locked for sure!!

My little laugh for the day happened this morning. I was on the dementia ward last night, and several patients were up early. One was yelling loudly and impatiently for help (he wanted cold water!!). The others were discussing him, and one said "You know, they have places for people like him". I cracked up - our ward IS one of those places.
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on November 29, 2007, 09:26:32 AM
id imagine they have places for people like us too :)

mmmmm....eau de deep heat - sounds scumptious!!

I myself have eau de difene (its an anti inflammatory gel) going on this morning, twinged my back yesterday - its those darn hormones!!! feels fine today though.

joanne how are your quads doing, youve been quiet on updating us on that knee recently?


Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on November 29, 2007, 03:44:38 PM

I don't really know about my knee / quad situation. i have not been wearing the brace the past few days and I'm not sure if it feels any different. Obviously its just weak and going up or down stairs is always sore but other than that I am pretty scunnered with the whole thing. (Noce scottish colloquialism for you - do you know what I mean by it ???? )

I just wish they knew how to fix it and I'm at the point if they mentioned surgery that would work I'd do it. I am just fed up with it really.

however could be worse. How are my gals doing today ?
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on November 29, 2007, 09:32:36 PM
HORMONAL!! My back aches, and I've got cramps, just to add to my knee woes. Gives me something else to think about besides my knees!! Oh well, it could be the headaches - I didn't get them this time round.

The knees are really irritating. They always ache, and doing my PT exercises is OK, but walking or cycling always sets the aching off worse. I can avoid the cycling (but I want to get stronger!!) but it's hard not to walk! I slept last night, which was a relief. Hubby finally took all the beer out of the bath tub, so I had the bath I promised myself last Sunday. I think it helped with the sleeping.

I have a relaxing weekend to look forward to, so despite the knees I'm not doing too bad! I'm catching up with a friend today, and another friend on Saturday, and we have a Xmas dinner (no kids, good company) on Sat night. Nothing on Sunday until I go to work, but then I have another 4 days off after that. Hubby is on leave, so I'll have him home - could be good, could be bad!!

Well, off to do the school thing, then go visiting.

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on November 30, 2007, 03:31:17 PM
hi ladies,
joanne im thinking scunnered means (a) sick of it, (b) pee'd off, (c) some weird scottish sentiment that ive never heard of :)

Kathy - watch those hormones, my boyfriend says Im like a HSSSSing cat at that time!!! HSSS!!!!!

well i had a good day. was off work so i went to a shopping centre and wander around it, was a bit wobbly but not too bad, only got a bit sore, then i went to a supermarket and did same then to a chemist in a different place to collect photos and by the end of it all i WASNT ready to lie down in the carpark and cry like usual. so thats a good improvement for me - i think this standing thing ive been doing is helping a lot.
after all that i came home and did my exercises (oh had done them before i left too), and then settled in on the couch with tea and a dvd :)

and now im off to do the exercises again. no rest for the wicked :)
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on November 30, 2007, 08:47:14 PM
 ;D ;) :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* have it easy don;t they. Hormones are just a royal pain the.......

Tanya retail therapy all the way girl. If that can give you a slyvmo count me in.
We haven;t done that on VH yet have we. Well tomorrow a limitless credit card that we don;t pay and off retailing for us. Where shall we shop ????
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on December 01, 2007, 07:02:32 AM
Retail therapy!!! Mmmm! I wish!! Tried it yesterday and barely lasted an hour before I was sore. I probably spent a couple of hours on my feet during the day, but not all in one go, and I was certainly ready to lie down in the carpark and cry by the end of the day. However, give me a limitless credit card (with no need to pay it off) and I will put up with a day on my feet!! I love shopping. It's just a case of the mind being willing but the flesh being weak!! I think I need to find an exercise that doesn't give me pain. Even SLRs have been a problem. I assumed scar tissue from the LR was the cause, but it's not really in the right place now that the pain has localised somewhat. And I am getting a similar pain in both legs now, where it was just my left initially. Grrr! I am getting very frustrated. I will keep persisting though, and hope I get somewhere soon. I am off to pamper myself before my night out with NO KIDS!!! Bye for now!

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on December 01, 2007, 04:09:31 PM
You go pamper yourself Kathy....just keep thinking retail therapy is on VH and anything is possible there !!!!!

You hang in there and enjoy your special night out. A well deserved treat.

Thinking of you !!!!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on December 01, 2007, 10:13:59 PM
VH retail therapy is just what I need!!

We had a wonderful night out. Good food, great company - what more could I want?!! Wish I could remember some of the jokes that were told so I could put them on the laughter thread!

Tanya - sounds like the standing thing is really working for you. You'll have your SlyVMO before you know it!! Go go VMO!!!  ;D
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on December 03, 2007, 09:33:35 AM
well ladies the big day is here, my first visit with PT in 6 weeks and only the second time i have anything to show!!! last time my VMO had just woken up but it was still practically invisible, today its around a third or so the size of the good side - you cant miss it even though its still small. and i get to report a general feeling of improvement. then ill have to do the torture chair strength test and maybe wont see her again til the end of jan or so. im all nervous about todays visit just cos its been so long - but im real happy to be able to report something good for a change!!

oh - a limitless credit card - please please please!!!! love it! designer gear here we go, including the fanciest most expensive heels imaginable :)

kathy glad to hear you got a good night out - well deserved.

joanne when are you next seeing your OS?

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on December 03, 2007, 10:32:12 AM
Good luck today Tanya  ;D

I dont have an apt with my OS, he just told my PT to put me in the knee brace and my PT just said to wear it and contact him in a few weeks if any change. Well I haven't seen him in a  month now and I dont know if there is any change so I haven't called ans he hasn't called me. I will probably just carry on myself now as they dont really know what to with me and I think I will fall through the system as such as I'm the patient noone wants as they don't know how to fix it.
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on December 03, 2007, 11:06:29 AM
Joanne a month is long enough to see if theres any positive change, why dont you get back onto your PT and ask whats next options?
Dont let them drop you through the system, thats what I did 2.5 years ago and it took 100s more dislocations before I went to the next OS - who DID help and finally got my quads working by sending me to a physio with a brain and prescribing the e-stim machine.

There IS an answer for you - its just a matter of finding it.

If you dont hassle them they do forget about you - but if you keep at them they will have to keep trying new things.

Or what about a new OS?
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on December 03, 2007, 11:42:00 AM
Joanne - I agree with Tanya. Don't let them drop you out of the system.  You have had a fair number of things happen with that knee and it may just take lots of time and effort to get anywhere. Find a PT who is willing to persist with you, and try new things if the old ones aren't working. Or try a new OS. Anything. Have you tried the pool? My PT wants me doing pool stuff, as it's very easy on the joints but still gives the muscles a workout. Maybe you could try some hydrotherapy. Maybe you are a bit like me in that you need muscle to relieve pain, but exercises causes pain and thus further muscle inhibition and the muscles don't get stronger. Pool exercises may be gentle enough to get things going for you without irritation. I am hoping that is the case for me. Keep hanging in there and don't give up!!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on December 04, 2007, 09:37:34 AM
hi ladies,
well i had the dreaded physio visit last night - it went well.

She seems to think Im doing well, she actually upheld me as an example of someone who does their exercises and has the right attitude to another patient who i could hear making excuses about time, not feeling its working etc... So at least she knows I work hard!!!

As soon as she saw my leg, before getting me to do anything she said 'oh wow - theres your VMO, i can see the muscle definition for the first time ever'. Then she checked me on squats, lunges, step downs. On the step downs she says my hip is weak/lazy - so Ive been given two extra exercises to help with that.

Then the dreaded isokinetic test.

My left leg is getting stronger just from being on my feet more so there is still a big difference between the two as the right improves, so does the left!! But for a plain old right on right comparison she compared the strength in it to the first test Id done there. The test that shows pure quad strenght showed I could exert 29 ft lbs on my first visit in June. Last night it was 46 ft lbs. In June my left could exert 50 ft lbs, so my right is almost as strong as my good left was when I first started going there. But it doesnt measure the fact that Ive still got a weak VMO so there is still a lot of work to do.

We discussed the future a little and she said that now that Im definitely improving that we shall just keep going, Ive still to use the e-stim, still to walk, no cyclying yet as the difference between left and right is big enough so that Id probably just pedal harder with my left leg without realising and not work my right as hard just yet.

She thinks that my OSs estimate of 6 months to a year to fully rehab the leg is conservative and thinks its more like 18months to 2 years.

She then put me on the isokinetic machine for a 'rehab' session and after it for the first tim ever i was sore on my VMO. She said thats good, gave me some electric treatment to help prevent swelling and sent me on my way.

By the time I got home I could barely move my leg, it was so sore, and it swelled a bit,but ice, rest and a nights sleep and its just achey in the muscle today like I worked it hard. She said cos the muscle is still so lazy that it reacts badly to hard work still hence the swelling and all. But it does recover quickly - its not sore for days.

So Im back to see her Jan 28th - hopefully Ill have more improvement to show then.
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on December 04, 2007, 10:09:50 AM
Fantastic Tanya!! Things are just on the up and up for you! I am so happy for you. Your improvement gives me glimmers of hope, though I realise it's a long hard slog to get anywhere. I think I am doing what your PT said would happen with you on the bike - using my left and my right is going along for the ride! I am trying really hard to not let that happen though, as I like the bike and I don't want to give it up. I am going to try the beach later this week. I thought it might be better than the pool as I can get in and out of it! I am having nightmares about getting stuck in the pool, as they usually have either ladders or steps without rails to get in and out. I will have to make sure I go with hubby for the first time, just in case I can't get out on my own! Maybe I should take him to the beach too - I am not sure how I'll go on the sand.

We finally have a Xmas tree!! We got it this afternoon. I am sore and sorry for myself due to traipsing around the shops for 3/4 of an hour, but I am happy it's done. Now we just need to put it up!

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on December 04, 2007, 10:55:36 AM
Hi Kathy,
exercising is HARD!!!
the beach idea sounds good, not only is sand hard to walk on but the resistance of the waves will make the water harder than a pool. and much easier for the getting in and out of!!!
bring hubby to the beach with you - in case you need a hand going in and out of the water for the first while. he can strip off and give you something to look at while he's at it - all distractions will help you take your mind off the knee :)

well done on the xmas tree - im thinking of having a look this weekend - dreading the walking bit though!!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on December 04, 2007, 11:17:11 AM
Hubby's idea is to go for a run while I'm wading/swimming! Nothing like rubbing it in, hey? Thankfully I hate running, so I won't be too jealous. I am sure there will be plenty of hunky guys there to take my mind off my knees if hubby decides to desert me!  ;)

You'll do fine with the Xmas tree hunting. I reckon you're doing better at walking than I am - you're just leaping and bounding ahead now! Do you get a fresh tree each year, or fake? We don't tend to do fresh trees in Oz. We did have one once, and we put fake snow on it. It made a big mess, as it dropped needles everywhere. It didn't look so good by Xmas day!

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on December 04, 2007, 12:32:29 PM
so long as theres something to look at sure it matters not if its hubby :)

my apartment is kinda small so a big real tree would be way too much - we usually get a small real one in a pot - almost like a potted plant, i kept them after xmas the last 2 years but they eventually died. i dont ave the space to store a fake one after the season so i think itll be the little real one again this year (around 3 feet high) - small and fat, makes you feel a bit easier about eating too much over the christmas eh?!!


Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on December 04, 2007, 09:54:14 PM
Cute! I'd love a little potted tree. Our fake ones pack down quite a bit, but storage is still a pain. We put it in our roof space. We have a larger single storey house - the advantages of living where we do, I guess. I am so glad I don't have to deal with stairs in the house like many kneegeeks do!

Had a crappy sleep last night, thanks to the shopping yesterday. Pain killers didn't help much. Oh well. I'll probably sleep better tonight as I'll be extra tired!

Am off to watch the kids do their swimming today - 3 hours of it!! Pity they couldn't be together rather than one after the other! They're thrilled that I'm watching, so that's the important thing.

Bye for now,
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on December 05, 2007, 07:11:07 PM
Hello ladies

Great news at PT Tanya, way to go  ;D

Kathy ohhh an Auzzie xmas relaxing in the I can understand what you mean about a real xmas tree the needles would drop off in the heat.

We go for an artificial one (as life is messy enough with 2 young kids, 2 cats and a husband....he's like kid number 3)
Kids are manic already over Santa and the whole Christmas thing. Its very cute !

How are you both doing, I have missed you !
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on December 05, 2007, 09:43:45 PM
Hi guys - Joanne, have missed you too! My son is decorating the tree as I write. He has been busting to do so since we got it! I'm lucky I was there when the boys unpacked the tree, as I caught hubby trying to pull all the fibre-optic cables out - he thought they were plastic ties holding the tree in it's compact packaging!! The Joey Scouts (the youngest age group) decorated our scout hall last night and were very over-zealous. We'll be lucky if we can get into the toilets and kitchen at the rate they were going when I left! I was going to go to the beach today, but I don't know if I can fit it in. I have to do food shopping, and drive the kids to swimming and back (as it's going to be too hot to walk), so that takes up most of the day - my daughter's class leaves school at 11.40am, then it's back to get my son's class at 1.10pm and then take my daughter's class home and back for my son's class at 3.10pm. So it's spread out over the afternoon! I just want to sleep!!! I am so tired. Oh well. C'est la vie.
Bye for now,
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on December 06, 2007, 06:56:20 AM
Hi!! Guess what?! I managed to get myself a couple of electric heat pads. Wowee!! I'm thrilled. I never knew they existed until I read about them in a KG post. I looked them up and eventually found a brand sold in Australia. I went shopping today and was very disappointed when I was told in the first shop that they don't stock them at all, and in the second shop that they don't stock them in summer. I replied that I wished my arthritis was seasonal  :P Oh well, off to shop number three - at the opposite end of the shopping centre to shop number one!! They had them, AND at less than recommended retail price!! I got two - well, I have two knees don't I?! I have one on at the moment, as shopping then swimming trips has done my knees in. My laptop is using the other power point, hence I am only using one. Very cosy. I wish I'd known about them sooner. My knees respond very well to heat therapy. Feeling very happy and proud of myself right now. Wish I could send some positive vibes to everyone, and store some up for next time I feel down!!

Oooh boy!! The weather is getting a touch rough out there! Looks like our change has arrived. It's been hot and overcast (=muggy!) with wind blowing up dust everywhere today. Now it's very windy and I have heard some thunder rumble a couple of times. Just when I have to go out again!! Blah!  :P

Well, the kids are telling me it's time to eat, so I'd better get a move on. Bye bye.


PS Tanya - thank you, thank you, thank you!!!  ;D
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on December 10, 2007, 12:06:07 AM
Where are you guys?!! Feel like I'm talking to myself here!!

The storms from the other evening have set off bushfires around the state, and we can smell them in the air when the wind is right. It's a scary time of year for those who live in the country and hills.

I have taken a heat pad to work for the last two nights. Works a treat for the aching knees. My offsider used it for a while, when I was busy, and loved it too. Being able to combat the cold really makes a difference. The air conditioning is a real frustration at work. It can get pretty cold at work on a summer night, let alone a winter one! I wear thermal underwear to work in winter. The only problem is that the heating is on when we arrive, and we boil our way through the first couple of hours in our thermals. Then the heating goes off and we start to freeze, until 6am when the heating goes on and we cook until home time. They used to leave the heating on overnight but it was too hot by far. People just couldn't sleep. So much for upgrading the air conditioning system, which they supposedly did recently!!

I'm off to catch some shut-eye. Bye.

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on December 10, 2007, 09:19:03 AM
youre not talking to yourself kathy!!!
ive been offline the past few days, had taken thurs and fri off work to get some bits done for xmas - it was horrible - packed shopping centres, me in agony after spending HOURS on my feet!!! i had a melt down in the middle of it all from the amount of pain i was in.
but got everything done, and even though it cost a lot in pain - at least i didnt dislocate.
just wish this leg would start getting more tolerant for time on my feet - i only get around 20 mins before i start getting sore.
and today for some reason im extra wobbly - dont know why, sometimes i get days like that.
love the sounds of the heat pad kathy - thats great for you.
well the work is piled up here after being off so better do some of it.....
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: Sore knee on December 10, 2007, 07:07:34 PM
Well I wish I could say I felt better. The flu I had weeks ago I still have. I am persistently fighting sore throat and sore ears and just feeling lousy. The doc is sending me for blood tests this Friday and I hope they show up whatever it is so I can get something. Antibiotics haven't worked so far so here's hoping.

My Dad went in for an op 15th Dec and he has had 2 sets of antibiotics now and has developed a rash round the wound and the tissues underneath the wound are all inflamed so I am really worrying about him. I feel as if life is going 100mph and I am going at 20.

Nevermind, I am pleased to hear you have found some comfort in the heatpads Kathy, thats excellent news. Every little helps !
Tanya, way to go that you could even consider going a big shopping trip. A large glass of wine for you !

So how are you guys spending Chrsitmas ?
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on December 10, 2007, 09:38:26 PM
Well, the saga of how we're going to spend Xmas.......we have FINALLY organised things at last. We are going to my in-laws on Xmas day, my Dad's on the 27th and my Aunt's place on Boxing Day to see my Mum's side of the family (my parents are divorced and my Dad remarried). My in-laws won't join my family, as they "don't really know them that well" (well, there's only one solution for that, in my book - get to know them!!). So Xmas is going to be busy.

Sorry to hear about your Dad, Joanne. Hope things pick up in time for him to enjoy Xmas without health problems hanging over his head. Hope you get better too. It's a worry when things linger for so long. Hopefully it's just because you're stressed and run down, rather than being a more serious bug that you've caught.

Wow, Tanya! Good on you for braving the Xmas crowds. Maybe doing so much has tired out your leg and made you extra wobbly. I know mine certainly get more wobbly when I've done more than usual. At least you got everything done. There's nothing worse than having to go back to finish off what you started!! You definitely deserve that glass of wine that Joanne suggested.

Hope you both get some peace and quiet time to relax before Xmas.

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on December 11, 2007, 09:17:29 AM
Thanks so much to both of you for prescribing that large glass of wine - very relaxing :)
Im much less wobbly today thank god - guess i just had 'one of those days' yesterday.

Sorry to hear about your Dad Joanne, I hope he starts feeling better soon. And poor you with your long lasting flu!!! That must be knocking your energy levels right down!!! TWO large glasses of wine for you!

Well Kathy that certainly sounds like a busy xmas you have planned!! People can be funny about not wanting to move out of the comfort zone and join new people for xmas - leave them at it and you just have a good time!!

Ill be going to my boyfriends dads house for xmas dinner. My own parents both passed away last January, and I dont have much of a relationship with my one sibling (brother) so I dont hook up with him over xmas. Ive a long and difficult family history, father an agressive alcoholic - the tentacles of that disease spread far and wide among relations, theres really only one aunt on my mums side I am in contact with, beyond that my best friends family are like family for me.
My boyfriends parents seperated a number of years ago but theyve just gotten back together :) So it should be a joyful dinner this year as theyre acting like a pair of teenagers together - they always spent xmas together since the seperation anyway but this year its going to be especially nice. His siblings have kids too so its nice to have small excited people around on xmas day.

Im off to a spa hotel 2 days after xmas for 3 nights, so Ill be relaxing with massage, hydrotherapy, manicures, etc... Its a lovely place, and the restuarants in it are really nice too. And nice grounds to go for a walk - eeek!!!


Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on December 11, 2007, 10:58:49 AM
Oooh, your spa hotel sounds lovely. We're hoping to get away for a couple of days before Xmas, just to recharge and unwind. I love to relax around a campsite with nothing much planned, eat out, and see a little of the sights in the area. I hate holidays that are packed from morning to evening. There is nothing worse than getting up early and rushing to get somewhere so that the day can be filled with as much as possible. I prefer to take my time seeing a few select things and leave the rest for another time. If i vanish off the BB for a bit then you know we've made it to a holiday destination  :)

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on December 13, 2007, 10:20:20 AM
well all i can say is - Im disappointed!!!!!

You know the way Ive been waiting and waiting on this VMO of mine to fire automatically? And I kind of had this mental image of me suddenly taking off at a run and dancing round the place with my newly automatic VMO???

Well I just realised it IS firing automatically - and I didnt notice!!! So its probably firing automatically a couple of weeks now!!

AW!!! I wanted a big miracle to happen!!!

However we must be thankful for small miracles and I AM thankful that its finally firing, it almost feels like its lagging behind when it fires, or that its not contracting hard enough but given that its still a lot smaller than the good side I guess thats ok.

Let the strenghtening continue........GO GO VMO!!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on December 16, 2007, 10:57:07 AM
It's disappointing not to have all the bells and whistles isn't it?! But congratulations anyway. An improvement is something to celebrate regardless of whether it silently creeps up on you or jumps up and bops you one.

I've been busy here, just living life. My knees have been up and down but the kids are on holidays now and in general things are good. The kids are moving schools next year (it is the end of our school year here) and I've been packing away old uniforms and labelling new ones. My daughter was in tears for most of Friday, as she will miss her teacher and friends, but she is now excited about the move again. They will have many more things to get involved in at the new school. I am glad we made the decision to move them.

Hope all is well with you both. Are you all prepared for Christmas. My daughter needs new sandals and I am not sure whether to brave the shops now, with the pre-Christmas rush, or wait until afterwards but have to battle the sale crowds (we have big post-Christmas sales). They both make me cringe at the thought. I think I'll go this week and do it early in the morning, before the crowds build up too much. At least shoes aren't a big Christmas item, unlike toys, so it should be quieter in the shoe shops.

Well, must go. Bye for now.

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on December 19, 2007, 04:21:38 PM
a 51 minute stand at my desk today in work - could have gone longer but my back was tired - my back???!?!??
one of these days ladies, ill be on the 8 hour stand!!!

how are you all?

joanne you have been very quiet, ive been thinking of you and your sleepy quads - hows that brace going for you?

kathy - in my super organised manner i had most of the shopping done online in november and spent december bringing parcels home :)

am all set to make mince pies at the weekend!!!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on December 20, 2007, 03:05:50 PM
I'VE FINISHED!!! All my Xmas shopping is now done. HOORAY!! It was a loooooong day but worthwhile. I am sore but happy. I found everything I wanted and the kids are none the wiser. The only downfall of the day was my PT appointment...

...I am not progressing. My PT said it looks like my current exercises will be as far as I'll ever get and will pretty much be to maintain things rather than improve things. He certainly didn't have the optimism he has had during the previous visits ("I treated one man who had destroyed knees and was going to have a TKR but we tried physio first and is now pain free"). I showed him the diagrams (from my OS) that show where the damage is and he said that I have a "significant amount of damage" to my kneecaps. He also said that one concern is that, now the LRs have altered the position of my patellae, I am at risk of extending the damage further. He seems to think I should have more surgery sooner rather than later. But he is not an OS. His opinion is that I have hit the end of the road, pretty much, and my current level of functioning isn't real good. I am in two minds. I hated not knowing where I'd end up. Now that I'm pretty well there, I can start with the coping strategies. I ache on and off most of the time, but it's not bad unless I overdo things. I last about 2 hours max (usually less) on my feet before I have to rest, and then I feel it the next day with increased aching. I am sort of OK with that, as I don't often have to spend ages on my feet, and I can plan rest stops into my activities. My quad strength is a bit of a pain though. My right quads still tremble when I hold them in a contraction - I can't even get a strong, steady contraction for a second! No wonder I have problems with buckling in that knee. My left is passable but lacks endurance. I think it has the potential to improve a bit more, if I can avoid setbacks (ie - don't overdo things too often!). I will see how things go and try not to stress too much about my options until I see the OS mid-Feb. I see the PT the week before, as he wants to write a note for the OS. I am curious about what he wants to say. It sound weird, but I am happy the PT visits are tapering off and this part of the saga is coming to an end. I can just live my life without having to remember the details of my progress so I can inform the PT when I see him next, or wonder if he'll be annoyed that I didn't make it to the pool (he wasn't, but he wants me to try whenever I can).

Enough about knees.

Joanne - what's happening in your part of the world? Hope all is well, both knees and the rest of your life! Did you finally shake that flu? How's your Dad? I hope he's improved.

Tanya - great to hear you're nearly up to an hour standing. How does the knee feel afterwards? You make your own mince pies?! Wow!! I wish I enjoyed cooking. It would make life so much easier. It's hard to cook when you don't feel like eating much.

Well, it's 1.30am here, so I'd better get some sleep. I hope I can. My knees are reminding me I did too much today. I might take a second dose of pain killers and read until they start to work. Some chocolate might get those endorphins going too!!  ;D

Bye for now,

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on December 20, 2007, 03:52:54 PM
Well done Kathy!!! I bet you are thrilled with finishing the shopping!!!

Kathy what about e-stim to help with those lazy muscles? Cos its not weight bearing - you can do SLRs with the contractions, might encourage your right leg to contract a bit harder? It doesnt build bulk - but it encourages the bulk thats there to work properly.
Its really your OS who is gonna have the last word but its always possible that he may have some new ideas for conservative treatment before deciding to pick up the knife again.
Dont worry about it - you have done as much as you can to help yourself. Enjoy christmas and forget your knees. We'll go for another virtual holiday in January and have some more fun. Considering I dont even remember coming home from the last one - must have been very drunk to forget that?!

Joanne - how are you doing? Are those quads behaving any better? Hope you feel better and your Dad is improved.

Kathy - my boyfriend says me and him make a perfect match - i like cooking and he likes eating :) Mind you there isnt a pick on him and i put weight on when I even say the words mince pies!!!

plenty of chocolate for you - and a large glass of wine too!!

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on December 21, 2007, 12:18:05 AM
I figure if my PT though e-stim would work then he'd try it. It might be worth a mention when I see him next though. Hubby has an e-stim type unit that I could try in the meantime. I'll have to look up my anatomy books to work out where I should try putting it though! I am not going to worry too much about my knees, especially over Christmas.

We had a thunder storm move in overnight. Lovely. I love storms, as long as they're not so violent that they're scary. I didn't sleep properly until 4.30am! The pain killers helped my knees but, as they sometimes do, they caused my body to feel tired but my brain to go into hyperdrive! Even the few dreams I had (when I did manage to doze off before 4.30) were fast paced and rushed. Once the meds wore off a bit I slept okay, except for waking at the odd crack of thunder. It'll be an early night for me tonight! I've got a good friend coming over today, with her kids, so the day will go quick and it'll be easy to stop myself sneaking off for a nap.

I look forward to our next VH. I'll bring the chocolate and wine (in real life I am suspecting I have developed an allergy to the preservative 220 that's in wine  :'( )

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on December 21, 2007, 10:25:03 AM
Anything new is worth a try Kathy - and definitely try to forget those knees over christmas!!!

You Aussies make me jealous with your weather systems, fancy storms, and sunshine most of the time!! Im stuck with dreary winter weather, its dark when I leave for work, its dark when I come home :) Car didnt even defrost this morning in the time it took me to drive to work!!

That is weird about the painkillers waking your mind up so much. I use self hypnosis to go to sleep - never fails, I can conk out anywhere anytime. I didnt even know it was self hypnosis until I read up on it a few years ago cos Ive been doing it since I was a kid. Ive 2 favourite techniques, one is I imagine myself on a swing going back and forth and back and forth........(i even feel sleepy talking about it!!) and the other is I imagine myself on a long rope thats twisted and its untwisting slowly so Im just slowly spinning in a circle. I actually get the feeling of both of those things when I imagine hard enough and it knocks me right out.

What happens with that allergy???? I get terrible sneezes and runny nose on some wines, my sinuses just go bananas - but not on others and Im positive that some chemical is in the ones that it happens me with. The only way to stop it is to drink LOTS more wine!!

Did an hour long stand at my desk this morning and I also have a new improvement to report. Remember before I told you when I sloghtly squatted my quads just sat there slack and my kneecap was freely moving around? Well now the quads are working!! If I slightly squat I no longer have to 'think' about contracting the quads. They just pull in. I can really feel it in bed now, if I move around I no longer have to move my whole leg as one entity with the quads slack - they just tighten up and I can move much more freely. So you CAN re-educate muscles!!

Ive had a lot of pain th epast two days though - but sometimes thats a signal Ive made a breakthrough and the correct usage makes me sore for a few days til my knee gets used to it. I think its happening from my step downs which are from a higher step now and have only started 'feeling' right (as in not like bending an elbow backwards) in the past few days.
On a brighter note other aches and pains I had a few weeks ago have stopped happening :)

yeeaa - last day of work before xmas today!!! whoopee!!

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on December 22, 2007, 12:38:44 AM
I have suspected that something in wine (and beer) has been disagreeing with me for a while. Every time I have some I feel crappy and get a bad headache. I tried avoiding red wine as I thought it may have been the tannins in it, but it's worse on white. One day when I had more than usual, I felt like my chest was being crushed in a vice and it seriously crossed my mine that I might have been having a heart attack - it felt that bad. A friend suggested an allergy to the preservative 220, as it is more prominent in white wine, less in red, and even less in beer, which matches with my experiences. There is also none in vodka (which I drink in the form of Cruisers and don't have any problem with - I did think it may have been alcohol in general causing my problems for a while). I haven't been game to test things out too much and I've limited myself to one glass of wine now.

Great to hear you've had another step forward! I'm really happy for you. It's an early Christmas present for you from your quads!! With my PT appointment so far off I am really relaxing and enjoying the Christmas period. I will get my mind back in the PT mode after New Year. I still do my exercises but I'm not thinking of all the things I need to report back to my PT. I have mentally given myself a week off from all that brainwork.

I hope you enjoy your Christmas break (whatever break you get). I am working the nights of the 23rd and 24th, but two nights in a row is nothing much, and we don't have many patients over Christmas on our ward. We have a little party at work too, on Christmas Eve, and I enjoy catching up with other staff from other wards, who we don't see often.

Have a good one!

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on December 24, 2007, 10:10:28 PM
Hi guys,


Hope you have a great day. The kids liked their presents. Phew!! They were waiting for me when I got home from work. Talk about excited!!! I hope your day is just as great as ours is turning out to be. Best wishes.

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on December 31, 2007, 09:44:32 AM
Happy New Year!!!!

Christmas was good, pretty quiet, but nice. My leg has been soooo weak around the hip - but I think Im only noticing cos my kneecap is so much more stable!!!! so really its good news!!

Back in work here with a shell shocked expression on my face :)
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on December 31, 2007, 09:58:03 AM
HAPPY NEW YEAR!! I am working tonight (New Year's Eve), which is a bummer. We wll have a little party, but it won't be the same as being with family. My daughter is really upset that I'm going to work. I wonder if hormones have started circulating, as she has been tearful at the drop of a hat. She's only nine though, so I doubt it. I think it's just all the excitement getting a bit much at this time of year. Well, have fun and stay safe!

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on January 03, 2008, 12:41:01 PM
HI Kathy and Joanne,
How are you two these days?

Im not getting along well with the knee at the moment - its hurting me a lot and my hip is KILLING me!!! I can really feel weakness in the hip area. I dont feel like Ive had any improvement or change since early December. Im quite unstable walking the past few days - probably from pain. I made an appointment with my physio for next monday to review my exercise program. You can SEE my VMO getting bigger but its like there is no practical change you know?

Im starting to wonder if there is ever going to be some normality ahead for me at all. Im just sick of feeling unstable and not being able to walk anywhere comfortably.

Sorry for the moaning - I need another Virtual Holiday :)

Kathy - how is your knee behaving?

Joanne - are your quads moving at all?
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on January 03, 2008, 01:16:05 PM
Hey Tanya!! Nice to hear from you again. Sorry to hear things have hit a bump in the road. Maybe we've hit the same bump, because my knees just don't seem to be getting anywhere either. I have worked out how to keep the aching to a minimum, but it leaves me very restricted in what I can do, which sucks!! I am hoping that the PT can give me ideas of how to manage "day trips" (sports days and fetes at school, trips to the zoo etc) without killing my knees in the process. If I can keep the aching at bay then I may stand a chance of building up my quads. Well, I can only hope.

Joanne - where have you disappeared to?? I hope you have been doing okay. Long time, no hear.

I reckon a virtual holiday is what I need too!! Where shall we go next time? I still have virtual sand everywhere from the beach, so maybe we can try something new. Any ideas?!

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on January 03, 2008, 02:00:57 PM
Hi Kathy,
have you tried glucosamine? wonder if itd be any help to your knees? Im having so much aching that like you Im finding the quad building difficult too. I do have a very small improvement to report - i can 'hunker' again - you know when you squat to the ground balancing on your feet with your bum touching your heels? Like you would if you were playing with a small child. I havent hunkered in years!! It hurts me when Im down there and I need to put my hand on something to support myself going up and down (more for balance), but the hurt is like tight tendons - its bearable.
Im still advocating e-stim for you to help with the quads cos its non weight bearing and you can just sit there and let the electric currents do their thing.

Maybe we should go and experience a new culture? Like Thailand or somewhere like that? We could have a look at the Buddhist temples and see the wildlife? Ooooohhh - what about a safari in Kenya????
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on January 04, 2008, 09:22:22 AM
Hi Tanya,

No I haven't tried glucosamine. From what I have read it is most effective for early stages of cartilage damage, though it may help keep my undamaged cartilage healthy. I'd love to be able to "hunker"!! It's so funny to watch me clean the kids' rooms - I pick up the big stuff by bending over and doing a very mini-squat, then I sit on the bed and use my arms to lower myself onto my butt on the ground. Then I bum-shuffle around the floor to pick up all the little bits and reach under the beds! What a sight!! Oh to be able to squat again!! I'll have to ask about e-stim. I have heard contradictory things about it, but I guess anything is worth a try.

A safari in Kenya sounds great. Really different too. I'd love to see elephants in their real habitat.

Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: tanyap on January 04, 2008, 09:49:26 AM
Hi Kathy,
you make me laugh so much - when I read 'bum shuffle' I suddenly had visions of myself hoovering under the bed - cos thats what I do too!!!
I cant get straight to the ground from standing unless Ive something like a wall to touch for balance/support. I get to a point and then just fall to the ground. Although the new hunkering trick might help that!!! Apparently humans are supposed to be able to hunker cos thats how toileting was performed before we got nice civilised porcelain loos :) Also its not pleasant to sit on the jungle floor cos of insects so hunkering minimised the amount of flesh touching the ground. So humans in western society have lost the ability for a nice hunker because of modern conveniences. Ive decided Im going to hunker a few times a day at my desk in work (who cares what people think - ill pretend im looking for a dropped pen or something!!)

Yes you should try the glucosamine - ive a friend who is a dietician and at the last conference she was at there was a discussion on the effects and one of her collegues said that her own father would be in a elderly folks home if not for glucosamine cos his arthritis was so bad that he couldnt do anything for himself, then he started on it and made enough improvements to be able to wash, use the loo, prepare simple meals etc.... The important think is that you get it in a form that the body can absorb it - there was one I got off the internet for my friends dog (its the magic bullet for animals) in liquid form - ill see can I find you a link, the dog went from not being able to put any weight through her back legs, and having awful trouble trying to get up to dashing around like a puppy after taking it - she hated the taste though and and used to try and eat her food round the teaspoon of glucosamine :) I used it too, but I didnt really notice much difference.  Below is the link for the actual brand I used - I didnt buy from that site, I bought it off ebay, it wasnt expensive. But theres a lot of info in the link.

Do ask about e-stim, Ill annoy you about it periodically and eventually you'll get sick of me asking so you'll try it :)

Kenya here we come!!!! how are we gonna climb up on the elephants??? perhaps we can get big strong men to carry us up!!
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: kathat on January 04, 2008, 01:15:18 PM
Golly, what funny things we do to cope! The only way I can get onto the ground is to lower myself from sitting, or to bend over and touch the ground with my hands and walk my feet away until I am in a push-up position, then I roll over onto my butt. Getting up involves the opposite, and is much harder - I always regret getting down there when it comes time to get up again. Using a chair to get up is much easier!

Hubby wanted to go away to a particular camping spot we have eyed off before, but there are no loos and I cannot squat, so what did he expect me to do??!! Hold it in?!?! There went that idea!

I plan to get some glucosamine next pay day. All these medications are getting expensive. I take several pain killers, multivitamins, a liquid supplement to increase protein intake, and fibre powder to counteract the painkillers' side effects  :P

Well, it's late and I must get to bed. I am praying for sleep, after several sleepless nights. Good night.


PS. Good strong men will come in handy for plenty of things, so we'd better make sure there are some on this virtual holiday.
Title: Re: I have had an improvement!!
Post by: whatever on May 13, 2009, 07:04:53 AM
Hi Tanya: Hope your doing better. I had a vmo as well and it was god awfull. Once i got into to physio and they hooked me up to electrictal stimulation and got my muscle firing i was off to the races. I took 2 months of sweat and tears but i was able to lift my leg and bend my knee. then i had to retrain my brain on how much to bend my knee to walk down the stairs and how to lock it to raise it. It was so fustrating. I wouldn't wish that surgery on my worst enemy.  It will all come back, just give it time.  Keep up the hard work, you'll get back to normal. Wishing you a speedy recovery. All the best Irene