KNEEtalk

The WAITING ROOM => GENERAL KNEE QUESTIONS and comments (good for new threads) => Topic started by: Boydy on January 03, 2006, 11:23:21 AM

Title: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 03, 2006, 11:23:21 AM
Has anyone had the same experince as this, ? I have been trying to get back to 'normal' activities for 11 months post LR now.  And I am seeing some sort of pattern forming, it seems EVERYTHING I try, if it is successful at all, seems to only last for a week ( 2 weeks tops). As you would imagine I have tried umteen dozen different PT programs, tried acupunture, drugs for nerve stimulators, Bowen massage, taping, braces etc, etc,  ::), and each one of these things that I have tried seems to work for awhile, and I think, " at last, I have found a way, or I've broken that pain and swelling cycle,"  but it always goes backwards, ( and its not always because I then go overboard and push my knee just a bit too far)  I have learnt that the hard way, that is what I used to do. :P  But I am really concious of going slow and steady, and it still only seems to last that dreaded week or two before it spirals backwards. :-\  This has been going on for so long now that it is really getting obvious.  Has anyone else noticed the same sort of thing happening to them.  Curious to see if it is just my imagination.  ???
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 03, 2006, 03:04:37 PM
I deal with the same. I really think that even if you think you're not pushing too hard, you are. I'm beginning to realize that with me. It's nearly impossible to stop what you're doing and sit down when you feel fine. I felt great the past two days, and even though I was conscious of not *really* overdoing, I still did more than usual, and today I feel it a little bit. I was told by my old therapist that some people need to increase their activity by only 5% per *week*. He said that factors in to maybe 5 minutes extra activity per day. Therefore, you can see how you can do "too much" and totally not realize it!
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 03, 2006, 03:18:23 PM
Boydy & Karen,

Ha!!Ha!!  Well, guess it is not funny, but we all seem to end up on the same posts.  Guess that it is not your imagination unless we all have the same one and that is doubtful.

Anyway, I was just thinking the same way.  When I first got my tru-pull wraparound - I could actually walk and do some things without any pain.  It felt wonderful and I actually felt that I might be on the right road again and all I'd need was time to see if my patella might possibly go back into place again or get a surgical procedure to do it...... Well, now my chondral lesion is rubbing and getting irritated all the time so it just makes a person wonder what else can you ever do that would work. 

The frustration is what gets to me - I hate thinking about my knees, but that is all that I can think about because they always hurt & prevent me from having some sort of lifestyle.  It is a viscious catch 22....

Hope that we have some reasonable answers some day......  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Nettan on January 03, 2006, 03:45:13 PM
A ongoing circle..with a start but no ending...just going around.
I can recognize this and really have no answers why it is like this.
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Heather M. on January 03, 2006, 07:00:47 PM
This is just my opinion, but there has to be a reason for the ongoing swelling and pain.  Find that, and you will find your solution, too.

Heather
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 03, 2006, 07:49:42 PM
There's always a reason, and mine is the fact that my ITBs keep tightening up when I try to strengthen my pathetically weak quads. My new OS agrees with my old one who said that when the problem isn't corrected fast enough and the quads get that weak, the weakness then becomes your main problem. So you need to strengthen the quads (and, in my case, the hips). But if you don't do it easy and slow, you will reaggravate the original problem (in my case, the ITBs). This is the "downward spiral" that so many OS's refer to in regards to PFS.

I'm pretty sure Boydy knows her problem is maltracking...? (Am I remembering that right? Isn't that what the brace is for?)
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrome'
Post by: shade on January 03, 2006, 09:43:15 PM
Hi,

Here is what I think about solutions, but this is only my opinion...... 
If you live in the right place & find the right PT (who actually has training) and/or find the right surgeon - then, hopefully will be on your way to finding solutions. 
This can be a daunting task in quite a few places & sometimes may take years.  Sadly, by then you can have secondary damage besides the original problems & these conditions are very hard to treat. 
For me, the secondary damage is what is keeping my rehab from working because everytime I try to do anything it flares up again. 
It is just a very frustrating situation......
I could be wrong, but I thought that was our situations anyway......
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Heather M. on January 03, 2006, 10:51:28 PM
Shade,

I think you're right about finding the correct combo of great PT and OS with knowledge of your problem and getting things addressed before damage sets in.  Often there's no going back once you have OA, but you can certainly improve things and get your body to a new normal with good PT and treatment. 

And believe it or not, you can live in the middle of a city with 3 million people and tons of top notch OS's....and still have the ones you see miss the boat on diagnosis!

I guess my point in the first post (which I made in hurry as I watched the Fed Ex guy approach my door, hitting post without reading--sorry if it sounded cryptic or something! ;D  I just wanted to get to the poor man before the dogs did their best Cujo immitation!) was that if you have been diagnosed with problem A (whatever it is) and are working soooo hard doing all the right things to fix problem A...and you still have pain and symptoms...maybe Problem A isn't, in fact, the problem?  Unfortunately, with so-called 'anterior knee pain' or PFS, there are a lot of symptoms that overlap with other conditions.  So unless you are actually treating the right problem, you can set yourself up for so much pain and frustration.  You three (Shade, Boydy, Karen) are working SO hard, and it really sounds like you are doing all the right things for your particular diagnoses, but the positive results have eluded you.  I really don't think you guys are doing anything wrong; if the problems continue, it makes sense to look at whether the diagnosis was correct in the first place.  That may be an alternative approach--it's only logical, because I truly don't think there are issues with 'patient compliance' or the patients 'overdoing it' in this case.  You all have been so painstaking in your rehab, I just have to think you would have recovered or at least seen some good improvement by now.  If you haven't, then maybe the original diagnosis, and the treatment plans based on it, missed the boat?  This is what happened in my case, so of course it's the first thing I think of when I read similar situations.  That may or may not be true, but it's what comes to mind for me.  I was treated initially for tendinitis after my LR and chondroplasty surgery.  Months and months.  Then I was told that I would only get better if I could strengthen my quad and improve the kneecap tracking.  So that was my 'diagnosis'--mal-tracking and muscle atrophy.  And I did, indeed, have these.  But they were SYMPTOMS of a larger problem, not a proper diagnosis.  This is how I spent over five months rehabbing, doing exactly what Boydy described--starting one activity and doing okay with it, then over the next few sessions having the pain and swelling increase until I wasn't able to even walk, let alone continue with the new rehab activity. 

Then, after MONTHS of trying to build my quad and improve the tracking, I was told I had a torn meniscus.  Then a chondral lesion with a flap that was popping in and out of place, causing pain and swelling.  Then it was plica syndrome.  Then it was back to mal-tracking.  I rehabbed so hard, following the protocol for each of these diagnoses to a T.  But it just didn't work, and I didn't improve.  Then, my original surgeon wanted to take another look in the knee, because he finally believed that I was being compliant and realized I had a true mechanical problem going on in there that wouldn't be addressed by PT (it helped that my wonderful, sweet PT came to a couple of OS appointments in a row with me and helped convince the OS that PT just wasn't working).  As soon as he stuck the scope in there, it was immediately clear what the problem was.  So the months and MONTHS of PT and MRI's and x-rays and hands-on exams, we found out that my problem was something new that hadn't been considered before.  And I had a great surgeon--the team physician for our pro baseball club, saw basketball players and college level athletes, as well as the weekend warriors and other surgeons in town.  It wasn't that he was a bad doctor, he just missed my particular problem.  It happens.  And he even admitted to kicking himself after my exploratory scope, because it was so obvious in retrospect what the problem was--arthrofibrosis, in my knee.

Anyway, that's what I meant to say, instead of a cryptic little two sentence post.  Sorry it came out weird.  On the plus side, the Fed Ex guy left my property without a drop of blood spilled and with all his limbs attached, so the morning was not lost....anyone seen a 25 pound attack beagle at work?  It's entertaining, to say the least.

Heather
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrome'
Post by: shade on January 03, 2006, 11:22:48 PM
Heather,

Hi, understood what you said in your posts and I agree.  Think it is the frustration & the exasperation that a person feels after trying so hard and nothing seems to work.  
Oh well, hopefully we shall all find the way to the road of recovery - we know it is there - we just have to find it.
Here's to happy knee days ahead. 
Good to know that the FedEx guy did not get attacked by the 25 lb beagle.   ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 03, 2006, 11:58:30 PM
Heather, I pretty much knew what you meant, too. No worries. :)

In my case, I was never diagnosed with ITBS. My acupuncturist (who recently came over here from China and barely speaks any English) discovered the tightness in both legs within the first minute of examining me. And she didn't do the usual "tests" that OS's and PTs do to check for tightness -- she could feel it by pressing with her fingers! And they were VERY tight. My PT at the time was a little put out when I told him because he said he didn't think they appeared to be tight during his exam. Apparently he didn't do a very good exam! I ditched him quickly, because he seemed to dislike the fact that I was doing acupuncture at the same time, and he refused to treat me for ITBS. What a loser.  >:(

Pain in the ITB area of my left leg was the very first thing I felt, actually, even before I knew there was any real problem going on. I would get off the treadmill and get that tightness in the middle of my thigh. I'd sit and rub it and it would go away. So I didn't worry about it. Then, I was outside walking with my kids and as I pulled one leg forward to take a step, the lateral side of my knee would seize up into this painful ZING, and it took several seconds to relax. And I would be left limping, with knee pain for the next 12 hours. After many months of the weird off-and-on thigh tightness (which began to set into the right thigh, too), and a couple of instances of the "zinging" that left pain behind, I started getting the "irritated cartilage feeling" when I used the leg press and squat machines at the gym (which, I believe, was what damaged my ITBs to begin with...and I'm sure my LRs of long ago played a hand in setting me up for that, but I'm trying not to dwell on that!).

When I finally saw my OS when everything finally flared up at once and did not go away, he barely brushed over the ITB symptoms I described, just "yes"'ing me to death, and instead was very focused on the fact that my irritated cartilage never completely calmed down. He was baffled, his colleague who examined me was baffled, the OS he referred me to for a second opinion (the chief of orthopedics at New England Baptist Hospital in Boston) also was baffled, and this guy was still convinced (after 8 months of this going on) that all I needed was PT to strengthen my quads, and worst case scenario a scope to clean up the joint (as if that would solve the problem!).

That's when I started acupuncture -- and thank goodness I did, or my ITBs would still be stiff as pokers and I'd still be hobbling around! I definitely have made progress from where I was last May -- no more visible swelling, no more redness and heat, and no more weird feeling in my ankles (which, again, no one could figure out, but loosening the ITBs made it go away). I had gotten to the point where I was 95% better by the end of September...but I had been doing nothing to strengthen my quads or hips, so I reaggravated the condition when I went a little bit gung-ho with my activity level. I'm just pulling out of that backslide, and now I've discovered (yes, on my OWN) that there are adhesions in my vastus lateralis as well as other areas of my thighs and hips, that need to be massaged out, and I'm stuck doing it myself. I feel like no one (other than my acupuncturist) understands what's really going on here, and no one is listening to me. After all this time, I know my body a lot better than these so-called "medical professionals" -- when my ITBS flares up, that's when my knees bug me; when I get them to loosen, my knees feel fine. I'm wondering if the newly discovered adhesions are what's keeping me from getting the ITBs to loosen completely...? Ah, who knows. Even the new OS I saw last week isn't all that concerned with the ITBS. She recommended arch supports (although I barely pronate, and only with my right foot) and I'm going to be given a knee sleeve with electrodes that will stimulate my VMO. I'm glad she's trying *something*, and I know she has a point that I need to strengthen my quads, but THAT IS NOT THE ONLY PROBLEM, NOR DO I FEEL IT'S THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM -- THE ITBS IS!!! Grrrrrrr. It's extremely frustrating! I really feel that if I could only find someone who can do myofascial release, between that and the acupuncture, I would be making quicker progress. My ITBs are just so reactive, I'm in a Catch-22 with the quad and hip strengthening. :(

Boydy, I am forever hijacking your posts!!! I'm sorry!  :-X (Vent over!)
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 04, 2006, 12:35:14 AM
I can't beleive this, I have just written twice and lost the lot both times, ( the first time I wrote an epic dialogue and didn't press opst properly and lost it. So wrote a shorter version and my time ran out somewhere in the process, so lost that one too) DAMNED, I have been here for 1 hour and got nowhere)  :(
Oh I can't do this again, so will be very short this time.
Karen & Shade, thank you for your continued support and encouragement, we are all definately in the same boat, your right in all that you have said,.
Heather, I have writers cramp, there is so much that I wanted to say but, can't do it for now. Just wanted to express my thanks for your opinions, I haven't been ignoring your advice all these months, and I do listen, actually listening to you tell of your experinces scares me (probably frustrates me more like it) because your story does sound so much like mine, that is why I was so insistant with my last OS to follow up on Arthrofrobrosis , which he did with extensive xrays done at different angles (as you suggested to me that he should), then he assures me that I havent got it. (Not that I want to have it, but it would have made more sense to have found something like that to be hindering my recovery). So that leaves me a bit mistified as to what to do when, I have seen the two best knee OS in my State ( who tell me they know about Arthrofrobrosis)  they say I have maltraking and wasted quads ( get them built up and all will be well !!!)  Even went as far as investigating my quad weakness in other areas, but when that didn't turn up anything, went back to first plan, work harder at building those quads up and you'll get there. GGGRRRRR    See the frustration in all this !!    ::)
This is a way shortened version, but I can't type anymore, thank you all for your support and I value your opinions imensly.  By the way Heather, where do you find these amazing PT's that will go with you to a OS appointment. That is great service,  :o , so glad that you have had some positive outcomes, it has been a very long road for you but nice to know it can work out.
I'm going to go before I lose this one too.  ;D
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Heather M. on January 04, 2006, 02:12:28 AM
Boydy,

Sorry you lost your posts...I have gotten used to hitting CTRL + A and CTRL + S to highlight my whole post and then save it.  I do it periodically, otherwise my hand brushes the touchpad and that is like hitting the 'back' arrow in Internet Explorer--bye bye post.

Anyway, I've got dinner sizzling on the stove, but wanted to say that I had five months of exams, x-rays, and MRI's...no one caught the arthrofibrosis.  No one.  I don't know why, but that's what happened to me.  Of course, Dr. S. caught it in about 25 seconds of hands on exam, but he knew exactly what he was looking for.

So I've not got a lot of faith in diagnostic imaging for some reason.  Wonder why...? 

And yes, your story sounds so familiar.  Just about every step of the way, actually.   I don't know how you have to proceed except to keep looking for an OS who will listen to you and not keep saying the same stuff again.  One who treats lots of complex knee cases, including arthrofibrosis, every year.  Who doesn't say "I have no idea why..." or "I've never seen anything like it..." or "You're just not trying hard enough...." or "I'm going to recommend another 25 months of PT...."  It's tough to find one of these doctors.  Almost as tough as finding a good PT...maybe more.  But just as important.

Karen,

I also had resistant ITBS...it was adhesions over the insertion point of the IT band.  All the releasing in the world didn't help, because it just tightened up again.  I finally had an open IT band release, and that helped a lot.

Yikes.  Chicken burning.

Heather
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 04, 2006, 03:00:41 AM
Hi Heather,   hope you saved that burning chicken,  :P   what with ferocious Beagles, and burning dinners, life can be so caotic.  ;)
Just thought I would let you know that I have bitten the bullet and have just got off the phone to yet another OS in our capital city. (He is the one the Neurologist told me was 'very good with tricky knees')  ::), anyway all I can do is try again, hey !  Only problem is his first available appointment is 7th June !!   :o   :o  If I didn't take that one it was another month after that. :(  Oh well, at least I have an appointment made, and will see how it goes until then. Am looking into Pilates or Yoga classes to help with all the tightness (especially the ITB)  but wouldn't you know, in this one hick town of mine, noone does it. Looks like, as usual ,I will have to learn from books, computers or videos how to do it myself. Thank god for modern technology.  :D  Enjoy your dinner, thanks for the reply's
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 04, 2006, 05:35:49 PM
Wow, you guys sound just like I feel , and I really have no reason to whine..my surgery was only 2 weeks ago, but the ITB is was bothers me most...I'm doing pilates and that works great..using a foam roller on the floor and lay down on it and roll back and forth till the ITB feels looser...hurts like the dickens, but I feel much better later....besides I just wanted to say how impressed I am with you'all...when I go for my PT and doc appointment I'm gonna "quote" you...cause all the crap that's happening to me seams to be a "universal" knee thing....also my pilates girl had me start hamstring and stomach strenghtening too...it's all connected somehow....

hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 04, 2006, 06:01:40 PM
Hilde, you're right, it certainly all is connected somehow. Now, if only the narrow-minded OS's I've seen would believe that (or care). I know when my ITBs are tightening when I start getting soreness in my right hamstring. (I've stretched my hamstrings out quite a bit now, though, and it still happens to a certain extent.) Then the soft tissue on the inside of my right ankle gets sore. Then the lateral part of my right knee feels tight. Then the buckling happens. And so on and so on. One thing leads to another. But thankfully now I know the order of events, and I can nip the tightness in the bud before I get to the buckling stage!

And strengthening your core always helps with everything else in the kinetic chain. (So why am I not down on the floor doing crunches right now instead of typing?  ::) It is of my New Year's resolutions to get my ab strength back!)

Boydy: I'm so glad to hear you are pursuing another opinion (but I'm sorry to hear you have such a long wait!).

Heather: I will do absolutely anything to avoid further surgery, because I'm convinced that although it can be very helpful, it can also be the root of all evil. LOL! Seriously, though, I have seen the light at the end of the tunnel, so that gives me hope. And I hope to say goodbye to this tunnel FOR GOOD in 2006. Thank you for all your input, and any time you think I need a boot in the butt about doing something -- anything -- please feel free to speak up! :)
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 04, 2006, 06:19:40 PM
Boydy,

Good for you - glad that you have made another OS appointment - all a person can do is keep trying - eventually there will be someone that understands.  Wow, you really have a long wait though.  Yikes!!

Heather,

Thanks for all the inspiration and knowledge that you bring to this site.  It is so wonderful hearing you speak about Dr. S.  It is great that you have finally found the right surgeon and physio. 

Karen,

Love your spunk..... Go girl go....
Hope that you do find an end to the tunnel in 2006. 

Hilde,

Think reading Karen's posts can really help you with ITBS.  Good luck and good stretching..... ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 04, 2006, 10:32:41 PM
Hilde, that is interesting about the foam roller, I have heard it mentioned before, so looked into it at the gym, they didn't know what I was talking about but suggested I use one of those foam rollers you use in the pool, so I bought one and cut it in half (to manage easier), but I find it really hard to roll onto my thigh with it. Any hints on how to use it, and is this the right shape and softness that you need,( maybe the roller I'm using is too hard)  ???
I'm gald the Pilates is working for you, thats it, I am really going to look into it TODAY !! I'm glad our posts have given you some 'info', I sometimes forget that other people are reading these, when I get on this site I just feel like I am writing a letter to some friends. ( Thats why sometimes they are so long, I get a bit carried away)  ;) 
Karen & Shade,  I love the way you express yourself,  there is nothing like a good sense of humour,  (especially on our  'down days' )  Thanks girls !!!   ;D
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 04, 2006, 10:52:31 PM
Boydy,

I've never heard of these foam rollers before but they do sound interesting.

http://optp.com/index.cfm/preset/Foam%20Roller%20Therapy

Seem to be many different types of these available.  Boydy maybe this site might help with the exercises.......

http://www.surfshot.com/items/magazine_item.html?context_id=224&item_id=466

http://www.runningtimes.com/04may/itb.htm

Good luck.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 04, 2006, 11:25:02 PM
Shade, you can't roll on those little piddly things, girl! ;) (I'm just teasing!) The foam roller that you roll your body on for myofascial release is very thick and has little "give" -- those things for the pool (we call them "noodles" around here) are not the thing to use.

I will look for the link to the site I bought my foam roller from and get back to you...
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 04, 2006, 11:28:46 PM
Here's the link: http://store.yahoo.com/exertools/follerstm.html

You have to get the thick roller, and my PT recommended the longer length.
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 04, 2006, 11:32:13 PM
Karen,

Thanks, I was looking for these for Boydy
Found this picture of the foam roller.....

(http://www.lwcoaching.com/library/foamroller.jpg)
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 04, 2006, 11:40:23 PM
Sorry about that, Shade -- I meant to direct the comment about rolling on the "piddly thing" to Boydy! It's been a long day!
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 04, 2006, 11:53:14 PM
Karen,

Ha!! Ha!!  No problem.  Hope these foam rollers help you guys.  I've never seen them before, but then my PT does not even have a recumbent bike so, this should not come as any surprise to me.
Hope you gals have a great evening....  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 05, 2006, 02:15:16 AM
The right OS definitely makes a difference..my first..sounds kinda kinky...specialized in dancers and was from New York..unfortunatly he was unable to work with me due to changes in my insurance, so he referred me to my current one....this one did my op in 99..then new changes in my insurance sent me to a 3rd guy..IDIOT....so I changed insurance myself and went back to 2nd guy..he's good, but oldfashioned..but he has amazing assistants and interns...thanks to them and this site ans a few others we came up with the right combo..at least so far.....sooo...hopefully that PKR that I have in future is still a few years away.....

hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 05, 2006, 03:12:49 AM
Gosh you girls crack me up !!    ;D   Yes, I see by the pictures, no wonder I was having trouble using 'the pool noodle'.!!!!   ::)  Thanks for those sites, (don't know how you keep coming up with these great things, I wouldn't know where to look   :-\ ) I'm a bit useless when it comes to the internet.  :P  I am getting in the car this very minute and going to search for one of those, they look great, and my whole outside of my thigh is sooo tight today. I've already warned hubby, that if I don't find one of these things he has to get that massage oil out. mmmmm.......  ;)
Shade, doesn't sound like you are having a very good day, chin up, maybe its the weather, hope things improve for you tomorrow.
Thanks again for the sites , am off to hunt for one of those roller thingys. Fingers crossed.  ;D
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Heather M. on January 05, 2006, 06:04:13 AM
Boydy,

I lived in a big city when first introduced to a foam roller, and I still had to order one online.  Actually, I found it online but my PT got a better price because he ordered in bulk, so I got it from the clinic.  I really don't know as you'll find one around town unless you go to some kind of medical supply house--they are pretty much used exclusively in PT clinics.  Maybe your clinic could hook you up?  I'm trying to remember where I found mine online--if I do, I'll let you know.  They are a miracle....the only bad thing about having an IT band release is that I'm not allowed to use mine for awhile.  My PT said until my next checkup, because they were 'intense.'  I'll say.  They are wonderful. 

If you can't find a foam roller, a swimming pool noodle will do okay.  Or buy a big, huge, cheap bathtowel and roll it up tightly.  Then, wrap it firmly in duct tape from top to bottom (obviously, don't do this to a towel you like or want to use as a towel again, because it will become a full-time ITB stretcher).  Voila!  Instant stretch-inducer.  It's better than nothing, and actually a fair substitute if you can really strap it up with duct tape.  Depending on how firm you can get it, the towel may offer more relief than a swimming pool noodle.

Also, if you can find practitioners around your area, a combo of acupuncture and myo-fascial release treatments (or ROLF or Heller massage) done within a few hours of each other is a huge help.  It basically controlled my severe ITBS for over two years.  But it got so bad, and tightened up again so consistently, that my surgeon decided to release the ITB.  It was a drastic measure, not one we decided on lightly.  But it was the right decision for me.  When they opened up the area around the ITB insertion point (lateral knee, below kneecap and lateral to the tibial tubercle/tuberosity), my surgeon said it was a whole mess of 'cobweb-like' adhesions--layer upon layer upon layer of scar tissue, likely from my lateral release.  Apparently, the ITB has to be manually retracted during the lateral release procedure, obviously with a small surgical instrument.  That's because the lateral retinaculum is underneath the ITB or something.  So anyway, mine was very irritated basically from the moment I woke up.  Either it was damaged or it just got really inflamed...then, my crazy immune system took over after that and just added inflammation on top of swelling on top of other junk.  It just never shut off.  And so I formed multiple layers of scar tissue, like perfect little pieces of tissue paper stacked one on top of the other.  They actually had a lot of trouble 'releasing' the adhesions during my procedure...basically, the surgeon's fellow reached in and did 'manual digital release.'  By this, I understand that he ripped the scar tissue out with his fingers.  Insert obligatory cringe of horror and wince of sympathy here. 

But the ITB release, combined with GENTLE myo-fascial release to make sure the area didn't scar up again, provided me with a lot of relief.  I'm starting to get some tightening, unfortunately, as I try to get back to work and be just a bit more active.  I'm torn on what to do about it...I need to live my life, but it's definitely causing pain and swelling.  But the ITB is much better than it was.  I still have a tight one on the 'good' right knee, though--so tight it tilts my kneecap out to the side.  Terrific.

Heather

PS Let us know how the great search goes.
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 05, 2006, 08:23:23 PM
Hey you guys...when I posted last I hadn't read everything...so my post came out kinda nutty..anyway regarding foam rollers..try ballet supply or dance supply like Dance Discount...we use them alot in ballet and I know that's how we get them at the studio..they also carry rubberbands for stretching and strenght..and Karen..great picture..I'm not computer savy enough to find pictures and links and then post them.....barely able to unload pictures from my camera and maybe e-mail them to friends and family....

hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 05, 2006, 08:29:29 PM
Oh my gosh..or oops I did it again....Shade, you found the picture...yeah that's how it goes... you lay down on the roller and go back and forth.. you can get the whole leg..sometimes it hurts so bad I can't put my whole bodyweight on it, but after a while it loosens up...we use them for backs and bellies and for stretching..etc...fun fun.....

hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 05, 2006, 10:58:25 PM
Hilde,
thanks for that, only place I have'nt tried the Ballet Studio, will try out that avenue, yes it does get a bit scrambled up sometimes when you miss reading some posts, I do that as well, I now have a book that I write how many posts I am up to, only way I can keep track of everything. :P
Heather M,
yes, you are right, I went on the biggest search and came up empty handed, I did try my PT first and they said they had them there to use but not for sale, will order one for me if I need to, but also went to Medical suppliers and she is my neighbour, so wanted the websites Shade & Karen gave to me, (she was pretty keen to order some as she thought they sounded really good,) so hopefully they won't take long to get here. But I was so keyed up to do it that day, and with the sites the girls found for me I was able to get a better idea on how these things are supposed to be used, so I did get the 'piddly pool noodle' back out of the cupboard and had another go, ( it was heaven, hurt, but you know that 'nice hurt'   ;) ) didn't work on some of the areas, ' too piddly'  but it gave me the idea of how  good the proper one will be.  :D
I did look into the myiofacial release after you mentioned it to me a few weeks ago, and I have managed to find a lady who does it, ( yay ! all is not lost in my fair town) I have had two sessions so far, (they are also, 'heaven & hell') !  But she has had a month off over the xmas break, so I am really hanging out for my appointment on Tuesday !  So thanks everyone for your advice, I am surely utilising all your good and valued experiences.  I think we could all band together, and write the most incredible book !!!!   ;D
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 06, 2006, 09:20:10 PM
(http://www.emedx.com/emedx/diagnosis_information/diagnosis_information_image_files/knee_images/iliotibial_band_surface_anatomy.JPG)

Hi Ladies,

Was just fooling around today trying to find out more about my knee as I'm going to see my surgeon again soon & found this picture.  I bent my knee to 90 degrees & contracted my quads & the lateral side of the right leg has huge dent about 6 inches or more long in the area of the red arrows in the picture - the iliotibial band area.  Maybe this is why I'm having problems with my knee subluxing medially..... Do you all have these big dents in the iliotibial band area?  You would think that my PT would have noticed this .....
Will let you know what happens at the os appointment.
Hope everyone has good knee day today.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 06, 2006, 10:24:09 PM
Hey, Boydy, I love to write, and I have been a copyeditor for the past 10+ years! And I think I've heard that Heather is a writer, too (?) We probably *could* write a book! I think "From the Depths of Hell" would be a good name for that sort of book! LOL!

I'm so glad the piddly pool noodle did some good while you're waiting for the big guns! ;)

Shade: I don't know what's going on with those dents -- although it could be atrophy...? Do your ITBs feel tight? How about if you press into the bands and rub -- does that hurt? It seems like ITBS is a popular problem amongst the long-term sufferers on this board.

So, is this thread our offical "meeting place" now? I feel like I belong to a club! Maybe we can call it Club Gimp.  ;D
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 06, 2006, 11:32:06 PM
Karen,

No, it does not feel tight.  It is very painful at the end near the knee.  I can stick my fingers right into the dent - it is like a trough up my leg - lateral side right leg. 
OMG - Please tell me it is not more atrophy...... 
All this biking and walking that I've done in the past 6 months post-op - hope it is not more atrophy - that would not be good.....
Well, Karen if this is a club - don't think I want to be a member - like the people - but not the ITBS......
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 07, 2006, 12:06:43 AM
Shade, I'm sorry if I made you feel down. :( I was referring to our thread here ("Only good for a week syndrome") as our "club"! I don't want you to be a member of the ITBS club along with everything else you're dealing with! I actually was trying to make you laugh -- it's been a long day, so I guess my wit leaves something to be desired!

I have dents, too -- aren't they normal?
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: stgiles16 on January 07, 2006, 12:09:52 AM
Shade, that dent is just a normal part of the body. It does NOT mean that anything is wrong with you. I have always had those and so does every other person that I have seen unless they are greatly overweight. It is definition between muscles. Everyone has them.

missy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 07, 2006, 12:22:50 AM
Hi girls,

Shade I did that test and I also have that dent, it is also on the inside of my thigh as well, (actually both sides concave inwards when I tighten my quads). I thought this might be natural as well, so I did the same test on the other leg and it doesn't 'indent' , 'concave' (whatever you call it) at all. ?  Is that what muscle atrophy is, noone has ever said 'those words' to me, they just tell me my quads are 'pathetic' and 'abnormally weak'.   ???.  Maybe you will get some answers from your OS,  Is this a new one, or just a follow up ? When do you go to see him ?
Keep us posted . Will be interested to see what he says.
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 07, 2006, 12:57:09 AM
I don't think that's atrophy. Like I and the others said, I think it's a natural "dent." But if it hurts at the bottom I would be suspicious about the ITB. I think you should mention it to someone to find out for sure.
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 07, 2006, 01:05:22 AM
Karen,

Read your post, you did not make me feel down.  I also was trying to make a joke.  Guess it is Friday and I'm just tired.  'Club Gimp' might be the right name.

Missy, hope you are right - it is not the same as the other leg though.  I can put two fingers side by side in the dent right up the outer part of my leg for 6 inches - then the leg is solid again.

Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 07, 2006, 01:33:10 AM
Hey Shade, you're supposed to have a"dent" there ...it's supposed to go all the way up your thigh if you're in shape..that's muscle tone..good for you..means you don't have too much fat in that area....

hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Heather M. on January 07, 2006, 05:14:47 AM
If I'm thinking of the same 'dent' that you are, it is where the quad muscles turn into the quad tendon, then attaches around the top of the patella.  So it's perfectly normal, if you have some muscle definition, to have an indent.  Strangely, I lost mine with my lateral release--because the top of the LR cut can extend all the way to the bottom of the quads where they come into the quad tendon...at least if you have an "extreme" lateral retinacular release, as I apparently did.  So anyway, there are several reasons that area could be sore--for those of us with LR, it is the top of the incision that split the lateral retinaculum and released it.  So this is a surgical site, at least, and it may also have a significant 'chunk' of scar tissue as result of the procedure.  There are also lots of nerves in the area, as well as a lot of soft tissue with a good blood supply...blood usually means pain potential. 

You may also be sore there because of scar tissue alone.  Sometimes when you have adhesions in one spot, the skin will suck down (like one of my incisions--when you push on it, the skin puckers down or dimples); I would think this would cause some pain around the area--tightness, pulling, soreness, or outright OUCH.  Or the pain could be because of some quad tendinitis, neuroma (damaged chunk of nerve tissue), ITBS (another form of tenditis or overuse syndrome), or even mal-tracking patella that goes laterally and has damaged cartilage or soft tissue in the area.  Lots of reasons.  If it feels much better when you rub it, then perhaps it's soft tissue related?  And the IT band goes right down the lateral aspect of the knee.  Myo-fascial release should help a lot of this is the case.

Good luck.  And don't worry too much about the difference in the appearance between a leg that's had an LR and one that hasn't--it pretty much changes the appearance and definition of the muscle because the tension on the bottom of the quad of the operated leg has been released...that's the whole point of the surgery as a matter of fact.  If you haven't had an LR done, maybe the change is due to scar tissue or serious atrophy?  That's something to consider.  Lack of function, or inability of the quad to fire properly because it's entangled in scar tissue, for exmaple, will cause the muscle to shrink and change in appearance compared to the other leg.  So don't fret too much, hopefully it's just a normal (but really annoying) consequence of the procedures we've all had.

Heather
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrome' or 'club gimp'
Post by: shade on January 07, 2006, 02:13:35 PM
Heather,

Contracting my quads and watching them move - the area I'm talking about is just lateral to the quads, so I'm thinking it is the ITBS.  The explanation of adhesions in one spot, the skin will suck down might well be what is going on with my leg.  I'll definately mention this on my next appointment & see if this is the problem & what should be done to help.
Thanks for the information, Heather.  Good explanations.  I'm just so hoping that this has nothing to do with ITBS because I've been doing so much biking for my rehab & reading biking should be avoided with ITBS problems sends a shiver down my spine.......   
Aren't knees wonderful.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 07, 2006, 04:11:22 PM
Shade, try not to worry for now. My recent PT wanted to get me on the stationary bike (I'm assuming with no resistance, but who knows with these crazy PTs), and she knows that I have ITBS. It's good that you're not using the bike, though, until you see what's what. The recumbent bike is okay for people with ITBS, but only later in the recovery, I believe, once the band is loosened and calmed down.

On another note, my acupuncturist discovered something else I've been doing wrong all this time -- quad sets! I had a feeling after I explained to Boydy how to do them that I was doing it wrong -- I'm sorry, Boydy!  :-\ What I explained to you were short-arc quads. I don't think you're supposed to do short-arc quads until you can perform a good quad set, and now I know why! I cannot do a quad set very well AT ALL.

When I went to acupuncture a couple of days ago, I was on the verge of a meltdown and was having a very hard time holding it together (just wasn't feeling well and hadn't been for a treatment in almost three weeks because she had been on vacation). So, my acupuncturist, bless her heart, went right into therapist mode (and I mean physical *and* mental therapist mode!). She examined me thoroughly again, showed me how she wants me to massage my thighs twice a day, and had me show her the exercises I was doing. As it turns out, I was doing 80 reps of those short-arc quads and was getting barely any benefit from them because my quads weren't firing correctly. In fact, where I've only been feeling good off and on, I had been sitting a bit more than usual, and she found that the muscles in my right leg (the leg that's worse) is now WEAKER! I was so upset to hear that! But I guess I should just be glad that I found out what I'm doing wrong. I have a VERY hard time getting my quad to contract when just doing a regular quad set. It's so much easier to flex your foot and lift the bottom of your leg while contracting the muscles (particularly when the muscles are not firing correctly!  ::) ). She told me to start working on the quad sets immediately, and that I should work my way up to at least 100 a day (obviously not right away -- especially since I can barely perform 10 wimpy ones and my legs feel tired from that  :( ). This is so ridiculous that I've been examined so many times by all different people and *14 months* later, I'm finally told that I'm doing the simplest exercise incorrectly. Grrrrr...

Anyway, I am *so* happy that my acupuncturist is back to work. She really worked on my ITBs and my quads on Thursday, and I've been sore as heck ever since. I feel like someone beat up my thighs. But I'm happy to have that feeling because I know she did something to help. She also helped to calm me down, because I think it was written all over my face that I'm at the end of my rope. She insists that although she knows I'm very uncomfortable, she feels that it's just been a long recovery as it sometimes can be with certain people, and she feels strongly that all that's going on here is not something severe enough to worry about. She told me again that she has dealt with people with very similar problems in the past, and she's not really surprised that it's taking a long time to sort it all out. Although, she did say that she felt I was going to be "all set" last September when I was almost completely better...but that my extremely weak legs couldn't handle the sudden increase in activity and is the reason for my backslide. She started stimulating my quad muscles again, and once again my legs feel stronger. I'm so mad, though, because that strong feeling was really beginning to stick around for longer and longer periods before she went on vacation. I think three weeks without the needling set me back a bit. Oh, well. She said that in China, when people are stuck in this sort of rut (legs need exercise because of atrophy, but exercise causes pain because of atrophy), they have acupuncture every day to stimulate the muscles, to get them to the point where they are strong enough to get them "over the hump" and able to exercise more. But, of course, in China that is the usual method of treatment rather than an alternative one, so the insurance pays for it. Pretty soon I am going to consider moving to China. LOL!

Oh, and I'm still waiting for that guy to call me about coming over to fit me for that knee sleeve with the EMS. Man, everything seems to take so long to get going! I'm sure everyone feels that way, though. It's a lot of hurry up and wait with rehab. :(
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrome' or 'club gimp'
Post by: shade on January 07, 2006, 04:55:32 PM
Karen,

Glad that you have a good accupuncturist, they can be awesome. 

Probably a big part of my problems - the therapists here just don't know what to do.  The equipment used for PT here is very limited & totally out of date.  Anyway, I have my recumbent bike & hopefully will manage to get this chondral lesion to settle down enough so that I'll be able to get back to biking & walking again.  I keep trying to go out for a little walk each day, but I can't get very far without this lesion getting irritated - it is very discouraging & frustrating, but hopefully will be resolved with time.
I've really considered going to a gym & have found a good physio there, but he won't touch me until I have papers from the surgeon.  He is worried about the chondral lesion pain I'm having, he has no problem with me wearing the tru-pull brace for the medial subluxation, which is a change. PT's allow kneesleeves while exercising, even though my patella displaces medially whenever I stand.  Duh!!  Anyway, if I can find something to help with this lesion I'm really thinking I'd like to go see this guy & see if he could help.  He is very expensive but uses all the best equipment & knows his stuff - guess you get what you pay for.  Don't think insurance would cover, but could try.....
I'm back to doing only the manual exercises like the straight leg raises & heel slides.  That is something that I was shown how to do & think I'm doing right.  It's frustrating going backwards, but that is just how this knee beast works.........
(http://www.emedicinehealth.com/images/4453/4453-4492-11678-30186tn.jpg)
Acupuncture done by someone taught traditionally is just so different.  They use the long needles & it really gives different relief as they penetrate further and are usually left in from 15 to 30 minutes.  The PT's here only have the basic training & can only use the tiny needles.  Glad you found your acupuncturist......
Maybe they'll get the brace fit soon.  Know about the hurry up and wait attitude..... Hmmmm!!
Hope tomorrow is better than today......  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 07, 2006, 05:50:30 PM
Yes, those needles really do get right in there. She goes pretty deep for my ITB, and if she taps it in too quickly it hurts like the dickens. It looks like she's going in pretty deep for the quads, too. I didn't even know anyone used those short needles for acupuncture, but then again I've never had acupuncture anywhere else than from this woman. She does everything very traditionally.

I really hope the pain from your lesion lessens more and more with time. I would think that, like everything else, there's a good chance of this with the more you can build up your quads. I know, I know...it's easier said than done. I would think that doing your little walks (and stopping as soon as you get pain) is a good thing, and hopefully the more you do it the farther you can go, even if it's only 30 seconds longer each week. Hey, it adds up over time, right? Hang in there...
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 07, 2006, 11:37:28 PM
Karen, OK now young lady, you are going to have to tell me all over again, I'm afraid I get confused pretty quick these days,  ;)   Which ones are the short arc quads sets that I'm not supposed to be doing, and how does the other ones go that I am supposed to be doing,  ???  This Acupunturist of yours sounds like she sure knows what she is doing, (is she Asian,? they seem to have the best knowledge and incredible 'healing hands')  It sucks that all these wonderful practitioners have to go on holidays ( how dare they !)  I can't wait until Tues when my myofacial massage therapists goes to town on my leg,  oouucchh !!  I don't know about this ITB, I have looked it up numerous times, but am still a bit confused about where it actually is. ( Told you,!!  my hubby is convinced the more surgeries I have the more my brain whittles away with confusion   :P )  All I know is my leg gets very tight in certain places up the outside of my thigh, ( mostly just above where they did the LR ) So I think that is what Heather was talking about.  That is the spot I have been concentrating on with the pool noodle, and have found it to be a great realease ( for a few hours only, but anything is better than nothing).  Isn't it sad that we all seem to having some bad days at the moment, Karen, especially when you were at the stage where you could actually get up and DANCE, and in HEELS!!! ( I think I got that right, didn't I ?)   That must at least give you some encouragement that you can get back to that stage eventually, did it once , you can do it again, (sometime in the future)  ;).   It has been  16 months since my 'fatal' dance night, ( that is how all this started for me). I love dancing, and I have missed it sooo much, to go out or to a party and not be able to dance just about kills me.  I get sooo bored, ( I'm not one for just sitting around drinking and talking ) So my social life for the last year and a half has been very dull, ( or maybe I just am very dull and had better learn the art of 'wonderful conversation' )   ::)
OK, this has turned into a  "Dear Mabel'  letter, ( this site tends to do that to me)  :P
I think it is that empty nest syndrone, really kicking in lately,!! 
Definately have to get myself some sort of job this year or I will go insane focusing on this damned 'thing' the whole day. Goes like this........... Should I do another set ?  Have I done too much today ? Should I just give it a rest ? Is it too soon to add that other excercise I was told about ?  OMG, which thing made it swell like this !!!  Damed, I was able to go up the stairs sooooo much better yesterday !!!  WHAT WENT WRONG  ???   ??? 
I bet this sounds familiar  ;D
OK I'm going before you all think I have really lost the plot.!!!   8)
Have a happy day !
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 07, 2006, 11:55:08 PM
Quote
Should I do another set ?  Have I done too much today ? Should I just give it a rest ? Is it too soon to add that other excercise I was told about ?

That made me laugh! Oh, yes, that sounds SO familiar! I'm sure lots of us on this site have these thoughts going through our heads most days.

Okay, it's not that you shouldn't be doing the short-arc quads, but I did read somewhere that the first thing you should do -- and keep doing until you are doing it WELL -- is quad sets. If you don't perfect the quad set, you won't be doing the short-arc quad right, either. And you don't want to waste your time thinking you're doing so great because you can do so many reps when you're not working the right muscles! So, here's the deal. A quad set is when you contract your quad muscles ONLY -- they are the only things moving. Don't flex your foot, and don't raise the bottom of your leg (as I mistakenly told you previously). Hold for a few seconds and release. You have to really concentrate on those muscles to get them to move. I know that sounds weird, but I was even taught that at the gym for back exercises and it does work! (Lots of back exercises have you pulling/pushing weights with your arms, and if you don't concentrate on using your back muscles, your arms are what's getting the workout!) So, the acupuncturist showed me on her leg how when she contracts her quads, the kneecap moves upwards towards the thigh. So she had me focusing on getting the kneecap to move up, and that really helped get me to isolate the right muscles. It's very easy to start using your butt muscles during quad exercises, and you don't want that.

The short-arc quad is what I described before: flex your toes up while pushing your knee down into a rolled-up towel while flexing your quads, and raise your lower leg a bit until it's in line with your upper leg. Hold for a count of three.

Oh, and yes, my acupuncturist is Asian. She came here from China a couple of years ago, after having worked for ten years at an orthopedic hospital that deals in Traditional Chinese Medicine. She is the ONLY person who's examined me who has been able to make sense of what's going on with me, and the only person who has given me good advice. If not for her, I would still be crying every night on the couch (now it only happens after I've danced in high heels -- yes, you got that right, Boydy! ;) ).

So, I hope I cleared that up! Have a great night. :)
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 08, 2006, 12:18:27 AM
Just wrote a big thingy and lost it...page noit available...dang..anyway ..looks like everybody is having one of those days although I can't claim  myself one today...did 5 ballet classes without too much problem today...wanted to tell you about some excersize I've been doing and they seam to work..have not seen regular pt yet..only my pilates girl...she has me do wall squares and purse pushes....have you ever heard of these..will try to explain..but think I try posting this first then come back my daughter is screaming for me to change channels on tv

hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 08, 2006, 12:27:46 AM
I'm back...no more Spongebob...anyway wall squares...lay on the floor, feet on wall at knees at 90 degrees...move feet up the wall to a full stretch then move feet horisontal to hip weith, the come down the wall to 90 degrees and close feet together..repeat about 6 times then reverse motion...easy but works all thigh muscles...purse push..just because I use my purse is....sit back against wall legs stretch forward..put purse by ankle and move outward to about 40 degrees then moves purse by inside knee and close leg..ease..of caouse you can do this witha  machine at the gym, but I don't belong to one and as one of you said..most trainers won't touch any of us without a doc's notice....Mel..my trainer  also has me bouncing on one of them yoga balls...tall one so I can sit with my knees at 90 degrees and do 100 bounces..fun fun..using both quads and stomack without straining.....don't know if you already do these of something like it but it realy works for me..also at every session I use foamroller to loosen up..

good luck

hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 08, 2006, 12:31:21 AM
Hey, Hilde, you don't happen to go to Gold's Gym, do you? That's where I used to belong, and one of the trainers was Mel -- totally gorgeous! That would be funny if we're talking about the same guy...as well as highly unlikely and a long shot (particularly if you live in another country). LOL!

I'm sure those are great exercises, but I don't think I'm even close to ready for those. Someday!
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 08, 2006, 02:42:27 AM
No, sorry..Mel is short for Melissa....and those exersizes are really easy....you don't have to use any weight at all...only your own body..if you're able to streighten out your leg ..you'll be able to do these..if you're able to lift your leg..these are easy...don't know where you are, but if yoy're in California I can hook you up with great pilates intructors....

hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 08, 2006, 03:50:56 AM
Karen,
thanks for that, yes all makes sense now. :P  Those short arcs are the ones that cause me grief somedays, (if I don't go painfully slow), I remember reading a post from Heather M somewhere, and she was explaining  to someone how to do it without pain, she talked about doing whole thing in about 4 or 5 steps and if you skipped from one step to another too quickly it really 'bites', so because of that bit of advice I have managed to stop pain (most of the time).
Hilde,
OMG, you can do ballet,  :o, 5 classes as well !!  How wonderful for you to be able to do something you enjoy. :D 
( I'm experimenting with this insert quote thingy, hope I get it right), when you do these ( just incase quote thingy failed, I'm talking about the wall squares) do you keep your bottom on the floor, I will give that ball bounce a go, I did a few just now to see how it feels and it does work the quads well, (but everything makes my knee swell so that will be the test.) Thanks for the input.
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 08, 2006, 03:53:36 AM
OOOOPs .  LOOKS LIKE I FAILED TO WORK THAT QUOTE THINGY OUT.  :-[   I'm hopeless at these things,  can anyone give me a quick  'simple' lesson  ???   
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 08, 2006, 05:27:27 AM
Hey Boydy, I can do those quote thingies either...wall squares...lay on you back close enough to put your feet on the wall at a 90 degrees angle (if you have that much flexion)keep your back and butt on the floor so you must engage stomach also...then slide feet up till legs are fully stretched then move out a bit smaller than hip weith and move down to 90 degrees or there about and then close legs...do this at a tempo that feels comfortable no more than 5-6 times then reverse..and yes I did ballet today..that is... not very good..but still..and my knee isn't that swollen...cut my surgery stocking up and use them as a brace....thermo brace are too tight and I can't use anything with metal in it for obvios reasons....think I'm gonna try to make my own brace from girdle material..something flexy, yet strong enough to hold things in..if you know what I mean.....do you guys wear a brace or something like that all the time..I have to otherwise my knee get too tight..as in swells..

hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 08, 2006, 10:51:05 AM
Hi Hilde,
ah, yes I get the drift now, (hence the square), I think I'll be able to give that a go, could work well because there is no weight bearing involved,( which causes my swelling). I did the 'purse' one tonight, but I didn't use any object, just sort of pretended I was moving something. Only did 5 because I have to add things to my program VERY slowly to monitor tomorrow if it is going to make it swell or not. Makes more sense that you did ballet with a sleeve on. It is amazing the things you can do with one of those on. I do not go ANYWHERE without mine, either on, or else in my bag , (just in case). Took the dog for a walk to the beach today, didn't put it on, ( vanity, I wanted my legs tannned)  :P  , but it was tough going and wasn't feeling too good,thought I would have to turn back, so I stopped and put it on, it was such a relief, I was able to go twice as far as I thought possible. Thanks for the input.
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 08, 2006, 01:03:58 PM
Boydy, those knee sleeves used to be the only things that kept my sanity before I had my LRs. My OS couldn't understand why they helped me, but as soon as I put them on the aching/tired feeling I would get when standing and walking (from my tilted kneecaps) would stop. Oddly, no amount of taping would get rid of the problem, though. I finally resorted to the surgeries because there was no way I was going through life with knee sleeves on both knees, particularly when I was single and 22 years old! But they can definitely be lifesavers. I tried them again for this problem, and they do nothing.  :-\

BTW, to do quotes, copy what you want to quote, click the quote icon, and then insert your cursor right in the middle of the two sets of brackets. Then paste the text. Voila! :)
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrome' or 'club gimp'
Post by: shade on January 08, 2006, 01:14:52 PM
Hi,

I used to wear knee sleeves all the time and my OS strongly recommends using them.  They do nothing for me now, except keep the leg warm - maybe just not enough anymore.  I wear a brace all the time (up to 16 hrs a day), but that is for the medial subluxing.  I also wear a lycra brace sock under the brace & it feels really wonderful.  I wear the brace sock  for those hours I am not wearing the brace - it makes my leg feel much better & it has not caused any swelling.   ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 08, 2006, 08:46:51 PM
Boydy,  you're obvisouly on the west coast ..the weather has been great and a tan...boy that really makes you feel better..don't care what they say..tan makes you look healthy..anyway..sleeves or no sleeves..I always wear something on my knee..oa is really bad so anything that keeps heat in makes my knee feel better...but before once I was warm I could take it off..
Shade..lycra sleeve..is it just lycra or does it have inforcements around knee cap or sides..my knee slides out medially..so any pressure on the inside makes it pop if I'm not careful...never painful, but very loud..I've done that all my life,way before there was damage too...maybe that's why..brace sock..do you get enough flexion with it on....?
Karen.. tried that quote thingy and also to bold your names..but I must be missing something on my computer, cause it just makes weird symbols

hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 08, 2006, 09:04:49 PM
Hilde,

I slip medially and wear the DonJoy tru-pull brace to stop it happening..... the knee sock just keeps the brace from pinching and slipping.

Here is a writeup on the brace....

http://www.donjoy.com/index.asp/fuseaction/products.detail/cat/4/id/64

Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 08, 2006, 10:19:43 PM
Hilde,
I'm going to give that quote thing another shot !
Quote from: misshilde link=topic=23450.msg174956#[quote
msg174956 date=1136753211 (This doesn't look good from here )  ???  Anyway,  I am from Australia, (sunny Queensland  8) ) Hence the tan,  ;).
Karen,
am going to have another go, 
Quote from: KarenS link=topic=23450.msg1748those knee sleeves used to be the only things that kept my sanity before I had my LRs48#msg174848 date=1136725438
  This is driving me crazy, but I am determined to get it ! Evertime I do it the whole post comes up and I have to delete all but whats in the brackets, ( is that right) Sorry, this is probably so simple to do, but I am hopeless with computers it has to be explained step by step, for my poor simple mind to follow.  ::)
Karen & Shade,
That is really interesting that the sleeves don't help either of you, (especially when they worked for you before your LR Karen.)  I just assumed they would help anyone with knee problems.  Shade I would have thought the sleeve would be good for you as the brace is working, ( to a certain degree ).  I suppose it proves we are all different and what works for some.............  :-\   
Boydy

Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 08, 2006, 10:41:33 PM
Boydy, I think they helped me before my LRs because they held my kneecaps in somewhat of a better position, so they somehow prevented the irritation that was caused from the kneecaps rubbing from the tilt. Now I don't have the tilt problem in either knee -- it's my ITBs that are tugging on my kneecaps when they get super-tight. So the sleeves do nothing. In fact, when I tried them on, I couldn't wait to get them off! When the ITBs are loose, I feel fine (other than the occasional pain in my right knee, which is the worse one, but that is because of the severe atrophy in my quads).
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrome'
Post by: shade on January 08, 2006, 10:49:07 PM

Shade, I would have thought the sleeve would be good for you as the brace is working, ( to a certain degree ).  I suppose it proves we are all different and what works for some.............  :-\   Boydy

To do quotes all you have to do is delete what you don't want and make sure that the [ quote .......] is at the front and the  [ / quote] is at the end......

The knee sleeves don't give enough stability, my brace does.  The buttress insert goes to the side of the patella to stop knee subluxing and this stops the patella from causing further damage behind my patella (I think). 

Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 09, 2006, 03:50:17 AM
Shade. how much mobility do have in the brace....it doesn't look like could dance in dance..although looks like my big time dancing days are over...
Boydy..knew you were in west somewhere..just didn't realize how far....Queensland..wow..never been...lucky to have been most everywhere in the world..dad was an airline pilot and we took turns traveling with him..though never to Australia...anyway..have any of you tried magnetics...some of my other ballerina friends who don't have too much kneeproblems swears they work..then again most things worked before LR on all of you.....guess if any of us comes up with something new.it'll be on here..until further..gotta put the kids to bed before Desperate Housewifes...

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Heather M. on January 09, 2006, 05:43:02 AM
Just a technical note:  there are two ways to do quotes.  The first, which is not what I think you want, is to put a passage (like from a journal or something) in a different text/font/indentation level to draw attention to it.  This is the same principle as underlining or making text bold--you either type the text commands to do this or you go up to the quote/bold/ital symbols above the text box and click on it.  I find it's easier to type the commands yourself, and once you get the system it's really simple.  Basically, the bracket key is the start of the 'command' to the computer, to let it know that what follows is going to look different.  So the first command will look like this {b} which means "start bold" or {quote} "start quote.  Of course, you won't use those funny curly brackets, you'll use the simple squared ones right next to the "P" key on the keyboard.  Then you type the text you want to quote, underline, or put in bold face.  Then, you have to tell the computer to stop doing this alteration of the text.  You do this with the / key, which shares a spot with the question mark (to the left of the right hand shift key).  So the command to stop bold text is {/b} (again, you have to use square brackets--if I type them, though, they won't show up.

The alternative is to use your mouse to click on the B, I, U, or Quote buttons above the little smiley faces.  That will insert the entire command {b}{/b} without any spaces wherever your cursor happens to be (usually in the end of your message, but not alwasy).  Then, you click between the sets of brackets and type your text.  Voila.  Bold, underlined, whatever.

HOWEVER, I think the quote you are talking about is when you read a message someone else posts and you want to include pieces of it in your reply.  So you click the "quote" command in the upper right hand of the particular message box in the thread, and your screen changes and a new message from you starts.  It begins with the brackets and the quote command, then a bunch of garbled symbols which make most people think they've done the wrong thing.  This tells the computer which text you are quoting--the computer-tagged message number by User X.  Don't be alarmed.  Simply read through the junk to get to the first words of the message that you have quoted.  Highlight and erase any text you don't want want to requote and erase it, but DON'T erase any of the computer junk (symbols and weird stuff) OR the actual quote commands {quote} or {/quote} because then it won't come out right.  When you have edited the previous user's message down to what you want to include or reply to in your message, then take your cursor and click in the message field AFTER the "end quote" command, which looks like {/quote} with square brackets.  Then, type your reply.

If you want to quote a bit of the other person's previous message, then reply, then quote again, all you have to do is use the "quote" command on that person's thread, then read through the quoted material until you get to the end of the first part you want to respond to...type the "end quote" command {/quote} and hit return, then begin your reply.  The rest of the other person's quoted message to you will be below your cursor, so it will be moved down as you type your response.  When you get to the part where you want to start quoting the other person's text again, type the "begin quote" command {quote} and go down to the end of the section you want to quote, then type the end quote command.  Or, if you are done with quoting the person's stuff, then just take your cursor down below the {/quote} command that the computer automatically put in for you when you hit the "quote" key in the other person's thread.

Does that make ANY sense.  The way I learned was by going to a post that had all the formatting I wanted--bold, quotes, etc.  Then, I would hit the quote button and it would generate a message from me with the other person's message quoted--and all the commands that they used.  I'll put some of this text in quotes and bold and you can hit the quote button and see what it looks like.  Then, just hit the back space on your internet explorer and it will all go away (as we have all learned to our dismay when we had a nice, long message and accidentally hit the wrong button!

Okay, so here I'm going to quote an article from MSNBC--I just highlighted and copied the text, then put the begin and end quote commands around it after I copied the text to my message here.  Or, hit the quote button (below the Red A and next to the bullet list above the smileys) and then click your cursor in between the sets of brackets.

Quote
Chronic pain frustrates patients, doctors
Too often, medicine can’t pinpoint the cause

By Robert Bazell
Correspondent
NBC News
Updated: 7:36 p.m. ET Jan. 6, 2006
 
BOSTON - Tim Connick's problems started when he fell off a ladder and shattered his ankle. Years later, X-rays showed the injury should be healed, but severe, constant pain persisted so much that he contemplated suicide.

"It did eventually get to the point where it [wasn't] worth it anymore," Connick says.

Dr. Edward Covington, who directs the chronic pain program at the Cleveland Clinic, says depression often accompanies chronic pain. 

"Typically, the people that you're dealing with when you're treating this syndrome are people who have spent the last three, four, five years of their lives on the recliner, watching television, dark room, no socialization, no work, no hobbies, no family life, no sex life," says Covington. "Their lives have literally stopped."

Connick says one of his biggest problems was his doctor did not believe he was suffering. 

"He would always say, 'Oh, I don't see any good reason for it. Everything looks OK,'" says Connick.

Dr. Covington says that is all too common. 

"I have had at least two patients in my career who came down with terminal cancer and were pleased," Covington says, "because now they had something that the doctors could see. I've had patients, any number of patients, say, 'I would give anything if I could bleed with this, then people would see it, they would know it's real.'"

Dr. Anne Louise Oaklander, a pain expert at Massachusetts General Hospital, says doctors have trouble treating chronic pain because it remains such a mystery. 

"To see a patient in front of you who appears to be in distress," she says, "particularly if it's severe, who's pleading with you to help, and you don't quite know what to do, this is difficult."
 
Often doctors find no solutions for chronic pain, but Dr. Oaklander managed to get Tim Connick's pain under control with a device implanted in his abdomen that sends electrical signals to his leg.

"I've got an extra 30 years now that I lost," Connick says.


Here I will put some of my text in bold:  chronic pain really stinks and bad knees should be outlawed

Same principle applies for underlining, putting in hyperlinks, linking to an image, etc.  Everything that you want to be 'formatted' differently has to fall between the sets of brackets that begin and end the command in question.  The commands are standardized, so {b} always means "begin bold" and {img} always means "insert image."

Hope this information helps.  It took a lot of practice and fooling around before I figured it out!  When you click on the 'bold' button, the computer unhelpfully gives you the whole command {b}{/b} and expects you to be born with the knowledge of HTML, so that you know you are supposed to insert the text between the brackets.  It doesn't work that way.  Oh, and by the way, don't do what I did and assume that if you highlight your entire message and then click the command (underline or whatever) button, that all your highlighted text will take on that format!!  On the contrary, all of your lovely, highlighted text will disappear and these will be visible in their place:  {u}{/u} (again, of course the brackets will be square).  Your message will be gone, and you will start cursing and wondering if your computer would feel pain if dropped from a high place....

Heather

PS If your message doesn't look right when you hit the 'post' button, hit the "modify" button and read through the text in the box, looking for stray commands in brackets.  Every "begin" command must be followed by an "end" command that begins with the slash key / or the computer won't know when to stop doing the bold or underlining, etc.  So they always have to be a matched set, and whatever is between the brackets will have the altered format.
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 09, 2006, 07:02:01 AM
OMG !!!!!   I thought this was supposed to be simple !!!!  :o  I think I just may need a college degree to work this out !   :-\  Better still I might just give it a few days to try and sink in, give it another go later.  ;)  I told you all, I get confused easy these days ! :P  Thanks for trying Heather, I think I'm a lost cause.   :-[
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Heather M. on January 09, 2006, 07:50:44 AM
You're not a lost cause--no one was born with this knowledge!  Just try it out.  Print out the instructions, pull open a thread, and experiment.

If we see some blank posts from Boydy with computer code and nothing else, we'll just assume it's some quaint Aussie custom, like Marmite.   :o

Anyway, the shorthand version of my explanation is to find the post you want to quote, hit the 'quote' button in the upper righthand corner of the other person's post, and wait for a new message from you to appear with a lot of text already in the white message field.  Then all you have to do is click your cursor AFTER the last words of the person's post, and after the {/quote} bit of text (only you will see the square brackets).  Then you start typing.

Easy as pie.  In my big, long-winded explanation I was just going over some of the more complicated stuff, like how to quote and reply, quote and reply, and how to do bold face and insert images or links. 

Nothing's complicated when you take it one step at a time!  Sit down and play--have fun.  It won't bite.  Though I do confess that I actually NAMED my computer hard drive "the Evil One."  Seriously.  The icon is on my desktop... ;D

Heather
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 09, 2006, 10:18:59 AM
LOL,  thanks Heather, I will give it another go. I'll surprise you one day, with a perfected 'quote'.   ;D
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 09, 2006, 11:23:10 AM
Hilde,

Hi, if you are still dancing this brace might not be the right thing for you. 
My kneecap subluxes everytime that I stand, so I need something to keep it in place always.  Maybe a good knee sleeve would be a solution for you.  There are some really nice ones on the market and there must be one that is just flexible enough in the leg, but strong around the patella that would work for you.  I've found the local pharmacy's home care sections have good knee sleeves.    ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 09, 2006, 04:36:50 PM
Heather...OMG..I agree with Boydy...the way my computer brain works..it would be faster to type in anything than try that..but then again maybe it's time I tried something new...
Shade...wow you knees sublux every time you stand ..that's awful..both of them...yes I'm still dancing to a certain point... I teach little kids and beginiing adults...11 classes a week used to be 20..but you know..anyway...must be able to demonstrate things properly..can explain for the adults.. but little kids need to see to learn..so I must use both legs..right now I pull in older dancers to help out..or use the really smart onces to demonstrate..but that won't work in the long run...time to look for other things to do...sad as dance has been my life since I was 15....was also thing about how we all got this way...did most of you have accidents and got hurt or are these injuries from overuse or just plain old born with bad knees???

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrome'
Post by: shade on January 09, 2006, 05:02:43 PM
Hilde,

The brace I wear might work for you but I'm not sure.....

How did this happen to me, well my saga began with a bad fall off my horse and I landed on both knees and also completely dislocated my left elbow.....  My knees just got progressively worse after that incident.

Then, I've had numerous falls since then with my knees just giving out.  It is like my knees go numb and then I fall......
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 09, 2006, 05:16:34 PM
Shade, I used to have a horse when I was young..tried riding a few years back, but could only manage for a little while  knee hurt like heck..my sister has a horse, he ran out with her the other day...scary...I was born with bad knees..leg and thigh bones not matching up..was told I could never do any sports..well I showed them...but now with all the things that have happened over the years ,..maybe they were right..however would have missed it for the world..but 42..is early for getting old..doc says my knee looks like that of a 70 year old...at least I can still get around....do you work...from home or other.....you know awful lot about knees and websites ..are/were you in the medical field or do you do alot of research...and by the way thanks to the sites you sent me to both before and after my op..they have been very helpful...

hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrome'
Post by: shade on January 09, 2006, 07:38:12 PM
Hilde,

I find loads of articles at findarticles.com - thanks to Heather M. for that site.... also, you can google search and find loads of info.   It just takes awhile to get used to how to search.....
Sorry you have had so many problems with your knees - it really gets discouraging sometimes.
Have a good day.....  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 09, 2006, 09:07:02 PM
Hilde,
OK here I go again, 3rd time lucky?
[...time to look for other things to do...sad as dance has been my life since I was 15....was also thing about how we all got this way...did most of you have accidents and got hurt or are these injuries from overuse or just plain old born with bad knees???]
Yes I am also in that position, isn't it terrible that these things have to make you do something you aren't ready to do yet. I was a Kindy Assistant,(very manual work, lots of lifting, and up and down off the floor etc) was there for 15 years and LOVED it ! I am 44, so am not ready to retire yet, (but did have to give job away) and are now looking at trying something else, but can't stand or sit for more than two hours at a time, so that is very limiting. :-\
HEY,  I just took a peek preview, I DID IT,  :o  YAY,  there's hope for me after all ,( Thanks Heather & Karen )  :P
Mine wasn't any accident, that is the frustrating part, I was very active, walked climbed hills, did gym and Body Combat classes (arobics) and only a slight twinge every few months. Then one night at a friends 40th, I danced ALL night, (my favourite rock & roll music, so a lot of twisting was envovled), didn't hurt at all that night, but when I climbed into bed at 2am I noticed my leg was tight when I bent it to get into bed, next day onward I couldn't bend it! Tried everything, 6 weeks of PT ,then sucommed to pressure and had first surgery Arthroscope to fix miniscus tear, still no good 4 months later so they did a LR. That was 11 months ago and now have added problems,( I would say from surgeries, nerve damage, constant swelling if I weight bear, etc,) My 'medical' practitioners say I am one of the unlucky ones that has a body that reacts to any type of trauma or injury, my body (nerves etc) overreacts and sends wrong messages so overstimulates with swelling etc. ( Whole lot of ******* if you ask me, they just don't know what else to tell me) I have had heaps of different diagnosis, they just keep on guessing.  ::)
[Shade,.....you know awful lot about knees and websites ..are/were you in the medical field or do you do alot of research...and by the way thanks to the sites you sent me to both before and after my op..they have been very helpful...]
I agree with you there, I used to think the same thing, these people must be nurses or something, they are so knowledgeable, it has been a god send for me finding this site, these people, ( who I now think of as friends) have been way more helpful then any of the OS and PT that I have seen.
Ok have rambled on enough, take you forever to read this, better go before my time runs out and I loose the lot, ( happens often.)  :-X
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 09, 2006, 11:21:13 PM
Yeah, Boydy way to go...I got smiley faces  ;D and bold letter but that's about it.....anyway good luck with finding something that'll work for you..if you keep it up..something will get better..patience, patience...not one of my strong points when it comes to myself..went to Disneland  ;D today and walked alot and now my knee is tight and very tired.. :( have an appointment with a special PT  ??? tomorrow, so we'll see what she says..will put my leg up and relax the rest of the day as I don't have to teach today.....l

thanks to Heather for the websites then...

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrome'
Post by: shade on January 13, 2006, 05:03:39 PM
GimpClub,

Hi Ladies!!!   No one has been on here of late & I wondered how everyone is doing? 

Made my little roadtrip and it was a total waste of time.  Doctor told me this time to disregard the pain-cycle and work through the pain as he thought it would not create anymore damage behind the patella anyway.  He said that the brace was a good choice and to wear 16 hr a day for pain relief from the subluxing patella.  He did say though that he thought all the pain came from the little lesion and not from two places that I mentioned.  Still I believe that the lesion hurts once irritated and also that the patella sliding off to the medial side creates pain.  He disagreed and said he would do no more surgery so he could not help me further.  I was surprised and asked about the patella being pulled laterally and sutured since my patella is 9 or 10 mm medially subluxed or the reconstruction of the lateral patellotibial ligament or the Hughston & Reece procedure that stabilizes the patella & he said these procedures would render me cripple.  Hmmmmm!!
So, I'm back to my own devices again and will join a club here and see if I can help myself.  I'm not ready to seek anymore surgeons advise at the moment since I can't take anymore conflicting statements.  Just want to see if with the help of the brace I can get my quads working and see if that will help any.  If I can handle the elliptical machine I'm going to purchase one for home use. 
Hope you gals have been doing okay and have more progress to report than me. 

Boydy nice seeing you on the Weather Girls.......  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 13, 2006, 05:18:12 PM
Shade, I think we've been commincation on one of Karen's other posts..how to keep in shape when inactive...seams like the same girls go there..I just posted a longwinded kinda frustrated one so read it there..sorry to hear about you wasted trip, but I'm sure you'll find a solution of some kind..starting to think of you as a "kneeguru"..like I said in my other post..my problems are pidley compared to yours and some others...anyway...got to go..running late for class and since running is not my strong point right now I gotta go...
post you later


Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 13, 2006, 07:15:20 PM
Hilde,

Managed to read your other post.  Don't think any knee problems are pidley & I often wonder reading some of the stories on here how lucky I am that I did not hurt myself worse.  Since I've found this knee brace things seem to slowly be changing.  Hilde - think you could wear this brace during ballet instructions.  I've really been wearing it for long periods of time lately and think it would be flexible enough for your needs.   You could check it out anyway.  http://www.djortho.com/products/DonJoy/patient/detail.asp?id=64

We all seem to be seeking answers and think it is a healthy approach to knee problems, giving up just isn't an option.  Know that no matter what - I'll never stop hoping that I'll be able to ride a horse again or ride a mountain bike.  It really bothered me being told my horseriding days are over and maybe mt. biking also.  I've only an LR surgery & giving up on a patient 6 mo post-op seems strange to me.  It seems negative & doesn't make sense, but I'll try to stop my ranting......

Guess it was a wasted trip in some ways, but I'm trying to turn it into a new beginning.  I've had 6 mo. post-op rehab with many conflicting opinions & now that is over & done with. 
Now, I'll try my way.....
Enjoy your class!!  Hope you have a great day.....  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 13, 2006, 09:49:14 PM
Hey,hey..yes have had a very good day so far..took class with guest teacher, managed to do 1 hour barre..sometimes holding on with both hands just for security...didn't do grand plie(full kneebends) or turns, but everything else...grand battement(big kick) back to normal..all the way past shoulder.....knee felt great strong and had preety good control....wore dobble surgery stockings cut to fit just right. plus extra tights for support..was swelling a bit under and over support during barre, but didn't feel tight at all..now a few hours later my knee feels smooth and painfree....amazing..forgot to take ibuporfin before class, but it seams like I didn't need it....have one more class at 4pm..............5 classes tomorrow..so that'll be the test..how will I feel then...maybe just doing what I feel is right and ignoring what pt has said is the way to go for me.....doc said let the pain and swelling be the guide..pt said no weighbaring and do more quads...did those.....will check the brace Shade..got a neoprean one which I will modify to fit my need for now............

Hilde ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 14, 2006, 05:32:52 AM
Shade,
Hi there, I know I have mentioned your OS visit in WG's section, but was just wondering .....  Was this OS a follow up from your LR or was this a second opinion from someone different.?
[ he would do no more surgery so he could not help me further.] [I'm not ready to seek anymore surgeons advise at the moment since I can't take anymore conflicting statements.]
I had the same comment made at my last OS visit,  and I feel the same way about seeing anymore surgeons, (although I have made that appointment for June, but it is a long time till then, and if that is how long I have to wait to see someone else it is handy to have that appointment up my sleeve in case things go bad again)! ::)   Isn't it frustrating when they seem to just give up on you, I have had that so many times with OS & PT.  No wonder we just think , "oh well, it is up to me to do whatever I think is right for my leg," thats when all these wonderful people (with their experiences and advice) on this site are invaluable to us!  ;D
Also I was wondering what this lesion you talk about is ? That is a new thing for me, I'm not sure what it really is and how you know you have it ? Does it show up in test or something ? :-\
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 14, 2006, 10:40:28 AM
Boydy,

Hi, the chondral lesion is on the central ridge of my patella & was seen during my surgery.  Think scopes are the best way to view these lesions, but maybe MRI's also.  Mine was from the bad horse fall I had years ago, I'd landed directly on my knees or one of my other falls.  The LR was done to fix the tilt of my patella to prevent the rubbing & irritation.  I was also supposed to have my patella pulled over laterally & stitched down, but he changed his mind.  Sad since my kneecap slips medially still, maybe the stitches would have resolved this problem.  Saw the same surgeon that did the surgery & even though it's disappointing - it is better to not have someone if they aren't interested.  
Hope this new OS will find some answers for your treatment.  Have a good day.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 14, 2006, 03:32:14 PM
I wish I could get everyone on this board one of these e-stim units that I picked up the other day. My insurance is going to pay to lease it for three months (and hopefully longer, if I need it). I've only used it twice, and I already notice a difference in how my legs and knees feel. I'm hoping I will be able to cut back a bit on the expensive acupuncture sessions soon because of this thing!

Shade and Boydy, I was thinking of you while I was using it this morning and wishing that you both could get one! If only the insurance companies would understand that this type of thing will most likely save them money in the long run. The man I met with who set me up with this unit said that he works with a lot of patients with quad wasting from surgery and whatever else, and a lot of people don't even need to go to PT (or at least not for very long) because of this machine! (It even has a pain/swelling relief function.)
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 14, 2006, 03:58:32 PM
Karen,

I've a Tens muscle stimulator unit & use it most days.  My insurance did not pay for it, but it was a worthwhile purchase.....
Have a great day..... Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 14, 2006, 04:12:50 PM
I'm glad to hear that, Shade. Do you find that it helps you much? I find it to be such a relief to give the muscles a good workout with having to do anything that's going to aggravate my ITBS! (But I know you have different issues.)
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 14, 2006, 04:39:26 PM
E-stim..what is that..electro shock on the muscles??? think I had one like that for my back way back when I had problems..right side again..anyway...question..got a neoprene brace for patella stabilitation...tried it...feels funky as in knee not lining up properly..does that mean it is right and my brain has gotten so used to off line that when it is corrected it feels wrong or should I just ditch the brac for now and stick with doble stockings...knee feels great still..not sore or anything from class...but get this..requested copies of surgery report and I didn't realize I has stage 4 OA...no wonder the OS has been so keen on a PKR....OA doesn't seam to bother me that much, so I guess I'll just keep working on quads for strenght etc

hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 14, 2006, 11:50:28 PM
Shade
So there is nothing that can be done for a 'lesion', even when they know for sure you have one ?  And is that the only OS you have seen, I know every talks about second and third opinions,( but I know you say you are sick of getting conflicting diagnosis,). So I presume you have been to a few other OS or are you referrring to PT's etc.?  Sorry about the 20 ?, but just trying to get a handle on you situation, so I understand your plight a bit better. Because it sounds to me like they really should be doing something for you .  As you seem to be getting worse, not better.  ???
Karen
I have heard of these machines before, but haven't looked into it hard enough,( my massage lady said she had a muscle stimulator that I could borrow,(but she had to get it back from someone else first)  wonder if that is the same thing, I have heard it called a few different names, (are they all the same thing though)? can you describe what it looks like and what it  does so I'll know if it is the same. Sounds very interesting, I will definately get onto that tomorrow.
I have got my 'Foam Roller'!!! Went to the PT to order one and he let me buy the one he had so that I didn't have to wait,  :D. I love it , but it sure hurts more than my 'piddly pool noodle' so I know it will be doing more for me. I actually think it is providing the best benifits, as I do it everynight  and keeping those muscles loose ( as well as keeping up with my quad sets and stretches) seem to be on a roll with the swelling staying very minimal. Fingers crossed. I haven't limped for two weeks now !!!  ;D  ( Gosh I hate saying that, usually evertime I start getting excited about this type of progress, whammo, back it goes )  But,....... must stay positive,..... it will stay good this time !!   :P
Hilde
I would say , if the brace feels 'funny' then you probably don't need it. My knee feels 'funny' without it , when I put it on is when it feel better and stronger etc.  I think those stockings that you wear will be giving you all the support you need, They would probably be like my elastic sleeve, ( and I love that on too ) only it doesn't allow for my quads to work properly, so I go for the brace more often.  It sounds like you are doing really well, you must be so happy to be able to do those classes and not 'suffering' any effects after.  Well done, I think this ballet must be really helping with your quads etc,  ( Hey girls, maybe that is what we should be trying, maybe we should have some ballet lessons)!!   ;)   It paints a pretty funny picture actually, Shade, Karen and myself all lined up at the bar, decked out in all our  'braces' etc.   :o      Have a good day ladies !!     :D
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 15, 2006, 02:02:33 AM
    Yes especially since bar is where you get drinks and BARRE is where you dance...think we would have alot of fun with a few margarita...maybe we should get together one of these days...in Australia.....yeah whoever wins the lotto first buys.....
Boydy..aren't those foam rollers great....and yes I'm so happy that things are working so far.....Shade..doc should not give up on you...maybe you should find another..my doc just keeps saying PKR..know why now, but his assistants and interns always try other things first then we confer and find a solition...must say I was a bit pushier after learning few things from this site though..PKR would just be death for ballet...
...so buttoms up and hei skaal...cheers,salud etc......

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 15, 2006, 02:22:17 AM
Boydy, the e-stim I have is a unit that looks almost like a large calculator. There are wires with sticky pads attached -- you place these over the muscles you want to stimulate and plug the wires into the unit. You press the buttons on the unit to turn up the intensity. It's great! That would be nice if you could borrow one. :)

I'm glad you got your foam roller and that it's working for you! If it hurts, you must have some adhesions that need to be loosened up. I can't help wondering if the fact that your ITB is so tight is what's triggering your swelling. It's strangely similar to what I have going on here, in that when my ITBs get tight (from increasing my activity a lot or from too much new exercise) my knees feel really weird -- irritated and tired. It's definitely inflammation, although I don't get the really obvious swelling that you get. (I used to have puffiness above my kneecaps, though, before the acupuncture got rid of it.) There's something about these darn lateral releases that wreaks havoc on the ITBs! Anyway, I really hope using the foam roller is going to make a big difference for you -- fingers crossed!!!
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 15, 2006, 01:30:53 PM
Ladies,

Hi everyone.

Well, first off here is a picture of a Tens unit.  Electrical muscle stimulator machine.
(http://images.google.ca/images?q=tbn:pkR3H0eX9Thg9M:www.texas-medical.com/images/tens/TENS7000.jpg) I've been very tired since the roadtrip,  but have since realized I walked around more because my leg felt good in the brace. 
So, I'm starting this week in the new facility my hubby found and they have a pool where I can wear my brace.  When pt's & os quit either right away or after only one LR surgery, it's weird.   Boydy, I've now seen 3 general os's and 2 surgeons, but none of them specialize in patellofemoral probems.  Think it's necessary to have someone look at the whole picture - the hip, the knee & the foot.  If a specialist says nothing can be done & they have checked me out & given some tips on what might work - then, a person actually could feel they've honestly advised.  That is all anyone is looking for.
Surgeons can only do so many procedures on lesions that aren't full-thickness damage.   Microfracture would be available for full-thickness defects.  He apparently did a procedure with a laser in the trochlear groove to make patella sit better (didn't work obviously). That is not on the OR report either.  My patella starts sliding out of the groove medially almost as soon as I begin to extend my leg.  It ends up about 20mm medially.     
Have a good knee day everyone!!  Sorry I got long-winded again.  Boydy asked....  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 15, 2006, 02:03:57 PM
Shade, that really stinks that you've seen so many doctors and no one can figure out your problem. I would definitely hop on a plane (if necessary) if I were you to see someone who's more specialized. (Maybe even knowing that you went to such lengths will convince the doctor to spend more time figuring out what's going on!)

I guess I have a different e-stim unit than you do -- it's not a TENS unit, it's called an RS-4i Stimulator. But I'm sure it's relatively the same thing.

Have a good day, Shade!
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrome'
Post by: shade on January 15, 2006, 02:37:43 PM
Karen,

Thanks, just might take your advice.  Well, maybe we'll get our passports upgraded first.  Ha!! Ha!! Yes, it stinks, but maybe it is also a good thing.  It could have ended worse if I'd continued to push.  Sometimes it does pay to go with your gut instinct.  Hubby was upset that I'd not pushed further and I told him I just though sometimes it is not worth the fight.  Knees are tricky and I believe that the guy that is working on them should at least answer questions. 
(http://www.rsmedical.com/images/roll_p_rs4i.jpg) Apparently these are stronger than the Tens units, but aside from that they are the same idea.  Great relief - I'm very impressed with these units.
Have a great day.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 15, 2006, 09:32:58 PM
Shade
Thanks for that info, I understand your case a bit better now. but .. alas.. now I have more quest.. It just mistifies me that noone takes our situations seriously and want to help us find answers.  If they don't know whats wrong, give us some advise as to what to do next, ( and not just the same old story, go get your quads stronger and all will be fixed) !!!  ::)
I understand your reluctance not to push the OS you saw, ( my hubby had the same comment on my last OS visit). You can tell that they' just don't get it' ( the OS's I'm tallking about) and you can talk to your blue in the face and you just know that this one is not going to help you, so why beat your head up a brick wall !  :-\  Its just so frustrating and dissappointing that you have to go through it all aver again, ( and in our case it is not just, "OK, whos next on the list") we have to travel sooo far to see anyone (and in my case now, have to wait so damned long to get an appointment)!!  OK, now that is off my chest,.... the questions.  :P
When you say 'facility', what do you mean, is it a new gym, or is it a new PT? Just curious as it has a pool, .. sounds good.
Because your Patella slides out of the groove so easily, I can understand why you think that stitch would have been a benifit. Is that what they are trying to get you to do..... build up the muscles around it so it won't slip out?  And how can you do that when you can't even function and do the workouts !!  I know you are having trouble walking lately, how about any other gym work, can you do any of the machines, and have you been doing any floor work ( quad sets etc)  Gosh , don't you wish you could just sit down over a coffee ( or a drink at the 'bar') (that ones for you Hilde) ;)   and have a good chin wag and discuss these things !!!  I know you must have tried just about everything there is, but I just can't understand why you have gone backwards so much, there has to be a reason.! ???  Sorry,..... I'm suppose to be giving you support and encouragement, not make you all frustrated by stating the obvious.  :-[
So, I'll shut up now and just send you a big hug, hope you have a good day. Let us know how you go in the pool, hope it feels good.  :D
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrome'
Post by: shade on January 15, 2006, 10:33:33 PM
Boydy,

Hi there, hope you are doing okay today....

The facility is open to the public, think you can get trainers, but I'm not sure.  You pay a nominal fee & use the equipment, pool, inside track, weight lifting equipment or tennis courts.  I'll use the pool later.  I'm going to walk the indoor track & try the elliptical machine first.  I'll try 2 or 3 times a week to start, know I'll probably be very sore at first, if being at the mall is any indication, but I'm going to try.
Maybe I've got it all wrong - maybe my patella slipping out 20mm medial, isn't that bad, he called it 'mild' & said it shouldn't create pain. 
Hope you get a good assessment the next time also.  Hang in there.  ~Shade 
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 16, 2006, 01:03:40 AM
Hello ladies..windy day in SoCAl ....Shade..it's very frustrating when doc and Pt's don't want to listen..can't say I'm going through that, but have chosen to change pt as I think my current one isn't aggressive enough...din't seam to understand that I'm a dancer and can do things normal people don't do..like hamstring strecht..she take my leg and pulls it towards my chest..all the way....as a dancer doing the splits is nothing...she's like wow this is good...anyway..my sister in law is a brain surgion..she says to go with your guts... always...if something doesn't feel right..it's not....continue looking for answers..they're out there..just gotta find the right person..now I want to stress if 5 docs has said there is nothing that can be done..maybe they're right, but as I understand they are all giving you different answers..and none of them feels right to you..? I also sublux medially, but mine doesn't really hurt..in fact nothing hurts..dislocated during class yesterday, but didn't hurt, just felt tight..kinda scary....where's my nerves..also..was just thinking if patella keeps slipping..couldn't it be due to ligaments aroung knee being too loose..I always though the patella kind of being the middle of a cross...if either side is too loose or tight then patella would slide out..know that's not how the knee is contructed, but my kneecaps can/could be moved around easily by hand....left one still can...my right barely moves now..feels weird...also not quite sure what lesions are..is there laymans terms for it...anyway that's it for now and yes I vote for a BAR meet..Fiji...anyone..we can all wear our muumuus and colorful braces!!!

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 16, 2006, 01:50:43 AM
Hilde,

Hi there, you are so lucky that your patella does not cause your pain, that is good.  Understand this about the ligaments, but how could you have this problem when your are a dancer.  Heck, you would be more muscled & limber than any of us.

Lesions are like potholes in the articular cartilage behind the patella.  That is where mine is anyway -usually blunt force trauma, maltracking or degeneration creates this problem.  Lesions do not heal......

You could be right that 'no one can help', but until I've at least been assessed by one patellofemoral knee specialist, I'll not stop trying.  ~Shade 
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 16, 2006, 04:57:04 AM
I knew it,...... you think I would know better by now.......shouldn't brag at how well I was doing !
All I did different was to throw the ball around in the yard with my puppy ( who I also spend a lot of time sewing up her toys, Shade !)  ;)
After about 15 minutes I could feel the tightness creeping up, ( Hadn't had that for 2 weeks) like a rubber band squeezing my kneecap.  The interesting thing is, I stopped straight away came up and iced for awhile, still tight, so I got the foam roller out and 'did my thing' I couldn't believe the difference, the tightness went straight away, leg was still puffy and unstable, but the tightness left, (that has never happened before,) and today it isn't back to being good, its borderline, but not as bad as it usually is once the tightness has set in (usually takes a few days for that to go away) so I do think that tells me it has something to do with the muscles tightning up, so if I can keep them loose, which I think will be a daily thing, because they get so tight so quick, from any sort of weightbearing, I may be on to something.  :-\  I may also be grasping at straws, but you never know !!!   Just wanted to share this bit of info with you, Karen, I think you may relate to this tale of woe, you seem to suffer from those damned tight muscles also.
Hilde, you dislocated your knee and there was no pain !!!  :o   Thats it, this ballet has got to have something going for it,  GREAT PAIN THRESHOLD !!  See you in FIJI.   ;D
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 16, 2006, 07:08:18 AM
Shade...I didn't mean for you to give up.....there is a solution out there and the patellarfemoral specialist will be the one....Boydy..foam rollers are great...my opinion..stay off the ice....I don't belive in ice after the initial injury..ice does not work for me..stiffens up everything..and dislocations without pain..don't you find that a little odd....don't know if I'm happy with that...I love that I have no pain..but shouldn't I have it?????
Yeah Fiji sounds great..see ya'll

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 16, 2006, 12:39:04 PM
Hilde,

You could be right that 'no one can help', but until I've at least been assessed by one patellofemoral knee specialist, I'll not stop trying. 

Hilde, I'm definately not giving up.  I'm planning on getting an appointment with a patello-femoral specialist to check my situation out & see if there is anything more he or I can do to try to help. 

Boydy, hopefully you have found the causes of this horrible tightness.  Gosh seems like a hard thing to get rid of.  Good that you managed to get that 'roller', it has already come in handy.....

Hey, Fiji sounds great to me also.
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 16, 2006, 03:54:03 PM
Boydy, I can definitely relate! Try to take it easy for couple of weeks with doing anything different, until your ITB isn't very sore anymore. I've learned that process the hard way. You're loosening it with the foam roller, but it's going to keep tightening up if you don't rest and let it *heal*. What I find to help me get the best results is to apply a warm heating pad along the ITB (but careful not to go anywhere near the knee) for about 10-15 minutes, and THEN "do your thing." The heat really loosens the band (but it will tighten again when it returns to regular body temp), so working on the band in the heated state always works best for me! Give it a try! :)

When my ITBs get very sore, it does take a couple of weeks, though to get the problem under control. So be careful for a little while. I get the tightness in my right knee (but not my left for some reason -- maybe because that's my "better" knee...?), and my ankle gets tight at the same time. When the tightness gets really bad, I know I'm in trouble. Right now, it's just a really dull feeling that comes and goes...and seems to be getting less and less often. So I'm not too worried at the moment.

Hang in there -- I think you're on the right track!

Shade, of COURSE you should never give up! There is an answer out there, and you *will* walk like a normal person someday...hopefully sooner rather than later!
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 16, 2006, 06:27:40 PM
Hallooooooooo...I love my new PT...she asked the right questions..lots of them....and she gave a lot of exersizes....and she encouraged hyperexting my bad knee to match the good one...wow..no one has ever done that...she also started by putting a 4 inch roller under my ankle put a heavy towel and heaters on my knee to strecth it out for 15 minutes then we began the routines.....some of them difficult..like hamstring curls..had no control to begin, but after a few I figured it out..she also wants me to continue to take full body pilates reformer at my studio and teach and take class as normal..some weightbaring restrictions otherwise go on as before...she was also interested in your stories...she checked my ITB's by having me lay on the end of the table...pull my good leg up to my chest and let my bad leg hang off the table..very uncomfortable..leg slid out to the side cause the ITB's are too tight..FOAM roller big time..and she wants me to become the "stretch queen"(I'm only a princess still she told me)...especially 4 point stretches...anyway feel great now ...good tired and sore...and encouraged.....also while I was there picked up a magazine...Pilates Style....check it out..has a lot of good exesizes and stories...so keep up the good work ...Shade, I love the picture..can't you see us..under that big palm tree..brace or no brace..that's the question...

Hilde ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 16, 2006, 07:21:25 PM
Hilde,

Wow, this is awesome!!   Good news from Boydy and now good news from you......  It's good to hear that you really like your PT.  Maybe this change was a very good move for you - when you are a ballet dancer it would be much better to go to someone used to dealing with dancers.
You'll probably have a great sleep tonight being so tired.  It is really good when PT helps.
Congratulations.  ~Shade 

PS:   Today I put tension on the recumbent bike & began cycling - OUCH!! does it hurt with tension.  Pain is behind patella and the patella tendon.  I managed to cycle through the pain as instructed (by os) for a short period of time.
Guess this exercise will increase pain tolerance levels.  It's quite hard without any pain meds.
This is exactly the opposite of everything I've ever been instructed. 
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 16, 2006, 08:34:17 PM
Yeah, maybe some of Boydy's and my good fortune will rub off....misary loves company, but so does good fortune.....

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 16, 2006, 09:40:25 PM
Hi Girls,
Karen,
thanks for the tips, I have never used heat because of my swelling, but it makes sense to try heat on the tight ITB before I' roller' ( as long as I keep it away from my knee )  Its still tight this morning, so I will have to be careful, ( it just p**** me off that this has happened from such a minor activity) ggggrrrrrr.  This seems to be a very appropriate 'post subject tiltle' (Only good for a week 'syndrone' !!)  I state my case !!  Maybe I am jinxing it, I wrote out my resume to hand into the school for some 'releif teaching aide work' last week and was going to go in this week to give it to them. But now I'm not so sure I should. ( I've gone to do that at least three times so far and evertime I think , now is the time, this happens)  :-\
I know everyone will say, just don't go back yet, but for someone who has worked all their lives and now I haven't worked for just over a year ( and the kids have left home as well)  :'(  I am going slightly insane.
 Gosh Shade, you have been  'doing this' for 3 years, how have you survived insanity,?.... ( I know,.....  The WG's)  ;)     Thanks for the insert Pictures info, I will have to have some practise. Have you started at your new facility yet, I wish we had something like that here, they sound really good, you get a bit of everything in the one spot.

[Today I put tension on the recumbent bike & began cycling - OUCH!! does it hurt with tension. Pain is behind patella and the patella tendon. I managed to cycle through the pain as instructed (by os) for a short period of time.
 
This is exactly the opposite of everything I've ever been instructed.]

This is something I have heard before and is very conflicting, some OS & PT say work through the pain, then others say, don't do anything that causes pain. You will have to go with your gut for that one. Maybe work through the pain, then the big thing will be 'How is it the next day'. My PT said it is OK to have pain and swelling but only for 24 hours, then it should be more improved the next day, ( stronger, etc) if it isn't then its not worth working through the pain barrier. ( If that makes any sense).  :-\
Hilde
thank goodness one of us is having some good luck, (although Karen seems to be doing ok for now also)  a good PT is half the answer,. I do feel the stretches are crutial at the moment, (that is why I think you are doing so well)  that has been my insperation, so thank you,!!  :D
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 16, 2006, 09:57:29 PM
This is something I have heard before and is very conflicting, some OS & PT say work through the pain, then others say, don't do anything that causes pain. You will have to go with your gut for that one. Maybe work through the pain, then the big thing will be 'How is it the next day'. My PT said it is OK to have pain and swelling but only for 24 hours, then it should be more improved the next day, ( stronger, etc) if it isn't then its not worth working through the pain barrier. ( If that makes any sense).  :-\   Boydy

Yes, this is not something that makes any sense to me, but I'm willing to try.  Tomorrow I'm going to the new place if the snow storm here calms down.  I agree with what your PT is saying, that is even more liberal than mine was.  Mine said that if the pain hasn't calmed down the evening of PT before bedtime then the exercises are harming you & other physio did not like any working through pain at all. 
The first guy that I saw here believed in working through pain and I believe that is why I've got the lesion behind patella.  He was a cruel person.... Grrrrr!!
Just too many opinions.  But, hearing that I should not have been doing all the SLR was a shocker to me - I just wonder what could be so wrong about doing them - I thought that was the number one exercise for patello-femoral problems.  I've never known a physio who did not teach a person the forward, side and tummy Straight Leg Raises.....
Have any of you ever been discouraged from doing these exercises??
(http://images.google.ca/images?q=tbn:5AxxPpY1hK6EqM:www.sdb.k12.wi.us/merrill/images/shoveling%2520snow.gif)~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 16, 2006, 10:28:17 PM
SLR..was just wondering when you explained...my new PT has me do a version of straight leg raises...since I'm hyperex...I start with 3-4 inch roll under ankle...tighten quad and press down on a blodpressure ball..keep pressure at 30 then release...my heel should come off the roll about 1 inch...other than that...no straight leg raises....she has me doing alot of hamstring and outer thigh/hip exersizes....since I have been concentrating on quads, these were hard to do...Oh Boydy, I though you were doing so well..guess you're right about the subject matter...but keep rolling and try the heat on the knee too...I did today..felt weird at first..but then when I took it off and shook the leg carefully everything felt very "loose"...as in how it used to be before..also she told me 10 was enough..of everything..if things are done right..10  is enough....as for the working through the pain..obviously I'm used to that...but there is pain and there's PAIN...you know which one you can handle.........

hilde
ps how do attach pictures????
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 16, 2006, 11:34:20 PM
learned something new...see if I can do it...
(http://balletbookstore.com/ballerina/pic/barker03x.jpg)

this is my favorite ballerina....was lucky to work with her these last two  Nutcrackers..now take a look at her legs and feet..and she's 42 ...that's just not right!!!!


hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 17, 2006, 12:05:12 AM
Hilde,
oouucchhh, for both leg positions !! ( And she is only 2 years younger than me  :( )  Clever girl, posting pictures, ;) Shade told me how to do it as well, I've only done it once so far, seems to take me so long to do it, maybe I'll get quicker if I practice more.
Yes, a slight 'setback', but now that I am armed with all this new info (& equipment) maybe it won't take as long to get back to where I was  ::)
Shade,
Where did you hear that you shouldn't be doing SLR, ? ( I haven't heard that one before), I thought that was the first basic step in a knee recovery  ???
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 17, 2006, 12:23:09 AM
Boydy,

I agree with you, I've always believed the SLR was the first step in knee recovery program also, but my surgeon said he did not like that I'd been doing them again.  I began doing the SLR & heel slides again when the bike created knee pain.  Personally, I thought that was better than doing nothing, he did not agree.  Again there was not response why, but maybe he felt I wasn't following his instructions as he wanted me on the recumbent bike only. 
Everyone else seems to promote this exercise with variations. 
Hope you are feeling better tomorrow.  Take care.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 17, 2006, 01:07:30 AM
Shade,
gee its hard isn't it...trying to figure out who to listen too.  How much faith do you have in this OS that you saw.... From what I can gather,... he really didn't give you any sort of answers or guidance. Just told you what you are doing wrong,(SLR) and that he can't do anything else for you.  :-\   And the worst thing is , he doesn't give you any REASONS for his opinion.  So I think his opinion 'sux' . And I'm not sure you should be listening to anything he said. ( Thats horrible, that you made the effort to get to him and it all seems to be a wasted ( and more confusing)  visit.  I hope you do get to go to this other fellow your talking about,  is he far away ? Do you think it will take a  long time to get an appointment.?  Good luck with the new facility tomorrow, remember slow and steady. And only try one thing at a time, so that is you 'suffer' from doing something you will know which one to stay away from. I think your idea of the pool first is a good one.  8)  Good Luck.
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 17, 2006, 01:31:34 AM
Boydy,

Yes, it would just be so nice and refreshing if people would just stop talking in riddles & if they don't know - don't act like they do.  But, also think he was disappointed with my unchanging condition.  Don't know if that is an excuse or not, but that is what I believe.  Sometimes think they just don't know what else to try....
Distance travelling to see a patello-femoral specialist just doesn't matter - any distance would be worth it -  just to get an assessment from an expert. 
I'll be careful tomorrow - maybe that is my problem though - I'm too careful.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 17, 2006, 02:58:31 AM
Shade,



[ - maybe that is my problem though - I'm too careful. ] ~Shade
I was just thinking the exact same thing, not half an hour ago. I think you start questioning your own judgment after awhile !  ::)   I'm very restless today and am starting to think a bit irrationally, like..... I should just get into the car and go to the pool and just start swimming laps, (if there is no pain, just keep going until I'm exhausted) just to see what my knee would do !!!   :-\   I have been sooooo careful for sooooo long and it still swells & gets tight... blah.. blah   I just feel like being reckless and ,,, going for it...  doing something that I haven't done for ages, ( because my precious leg might not cope with it )  aaarrgggg
Sorry, just one of those days,  :-[
I'm sure tomorrow will be a better one.  ( Usually is     :P )
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 17, 2006, 03:07:55 AM
(http://images.google.ca/images?q=tbn:ldXDPoYZZx607M:http://toons.artie.com/toons/dog_whoa/arg-whoa-blue.gif)

Whoa Boydy, Know this stuff is long and tedious but you don't want another big setback.  Sometimes when we are out I look at people and wonder if they know how lucky they are.  I've given up trying to appologize for having handicapped parking. We only use if my knees are sore.

We will all get where we want to be - it just takes some patience.

Think before you plunge.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 17, 2006, 03:43:39 AM
http://bestanimations.com/Animals/Snail-01-june.gif(http://bestanimations.com/Animals/Snail-01-june.gif)
Ok,....... dont really know what happened there, lost a few posts in the process....... but I think it worked,  thought this looked funny, reminded me how I would look doing laps.

I promise to be good, once I have a bit of a vent on this site I usually calm down.
What time is it over there Shade, I thought you would all be asleep,   ;)
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 17, 2006, 04:06:00 AM
(http://Resources/images/b_products/kids/kids_freddo.jpg)
ohhhhh !!!! I thought I was so clever,  I found a picture of my famous' Freddo Frog' to show you all.
What does that mean, when you get the red cross in the box, ( I have seen that in a few other posts as well ) did I do something wrong, or can't some pictures be copied ?
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 17, 2006, 11:01:52 AM
(http://images.google.ca/images?q=tbn:innzdU9ozRn4fM:www.whatimissmost.com/catalog/images/freddo.jpg)Boydy,

The dreaded (http://) happens, you might not get the entire URL address or it could just be the site itself won't let you copy their pictures.  It happens....

Liked the swimming snail - very cute.  Glad that you just vented and then calmed down.  Don't want you hurting yourself more.

When I wrote that post last night it was about 11 o'clock here. 

Have a great day today ladies.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 17, 2006, 12:48:56 PM
I have to say, Mr. Freddo Frog doesn't look very appetizing in that picture. LOL!

Boydy, stop thinking those crazy thoughts! Sit right down and do some quad sets. The craziest thing you should be doing right now is eating a chocolate frog! ;)
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 17, 2006, 07:25:57 PM
Oh kaka..just had a great post and my computer fizzed on me..so here we go again..ever heard of a the chinese proverb " only a fool measures the depth in the river with 2 legs"..anyway here's my version " only a fool measures the depth in the river with 2 legs, but I know how to swim"

sometimes you just gotta do things without thinking too much...you'll find out soon enough if messed up....you guys probably already know I' m not the most pateint person when it comes to myself..when I teach I have the patience of a saint..with my own body...no..anyway..I have not suffered anyway near you guys' setback or pain, but I know about frustration..and sometimes you're allowed, no entitled to do stupid things..so go ahead Boydy, go swim 100 laps, and Karen have a chocolate and Shade go to the mall and park way up front..you've earned it..(unfortunatly)..but sometimes bad things happen and you can't do anything about them except be patient..and that just sux!!!! so even though I had a great day yesterday I went and got a haircut...short like Sienna Miller and I look cute as heck and to hell with the knee..I look marverlous

Hilde ;)
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrome'
Post by: shade on January 17, 2006, 07:50:53 PM
Hi,

Went to the fitness center today and managed to walk 3/4 mile and my knee only slipped a couple of times.  Felt really good to be walking again and it's a great track. 
I also did approx 6 minutes on the lifestyle elliptical machine, didn't dare do more. 

It is a great place and think that I'm going to like going there.  Had a really hot bath and have been icing off and on since I got home.  Did get a few sharp pains from under the patella on the drive home, but it has settled down now. 

Will see how it goes tonight, but so far so good.  Hopefully next time I'll be able to increase everything.

Have a great day everyone.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 17, 2006, 09:15:50 PM
Morning Ladies,
Yes....thats the exact picture, oh well better luck next time, at least i think I have the process down right.Karen   Must admit.....  way better without the wrapping ...  ;)  mmmmmm. I was so down yesterday, I didn't just consume a 'freddo', I ate a whole large block !!!!  I felt so sick last night I didn't even want tea. (What a guts ! )  ::)
Hilde, thanks for the encourageing 'go ahead', but I thought better of it, have tried so hard for so long, don't want to 'bugger things up' now !  ;)   I love your enthusiasm,.. snazzy haircut hey....good on you.....I usually want to hide for a week after I get a haircut, ( they never seem to understand the meaning of, "just a little bit off please" ) 
Shade, keen to hear how your leg held up the next day, if you can do those things without bad effects, that will be so encouraging. That elliptical machine apparently is really good for all those leg muscles, I have a 5 min stint on one every now and then when I am in my good faze, as it is a little too much weight bearing for the swelling.  But I love how everything feels after I get off it, and when I'm on it I feel like I could do way more,  you feel like you are actually doing something, cardio  ;D  . Fingers and Toes are crossed for you.
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 17, 2006, 10:02:55 PM
Boydy,

Glad you are feeling better today......
These elliptical machines are very nice and seem to get everything working, much better than a recumbent bike (for sure).  I'd like to keep going until it hurts, but then I really pay for it.  Now, common sense tells me to go with gut instinct & not push like I did before knee injury.
Oh well, hope that we all get stronger & can finally achieve some our our goals.....
I've got pain in both knees (3 1/2 hrs after exercising) - but, I'm icing & taking Motrin to help. 
Tomorrow, I'll try to alternate recumbent bike at home & maybe Thur. return to the center.
 
Karen & Hilde,

Hope you both are having good weather.  It has been very cold here of late.  We keep getting this white stuff and seems like there is not end to it.....
Hilde, glad you love your haircut - good stuff.

I've been trying to cut back on sweets, snacks, pop etc.... You know all the stuff that is so darn good.  Well, it seems that it is everywhere!!!  Very tempting.....

Later gators.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 17, 2006, 11:06:27 PM
Hey, the weather's ok, cold..well 68F...and a bit windy ,but nice...interresting about the bike and elliptical trainers...I've never been able to do those...even before my knee got bad..any kind of bike or cycle move would blow my knee..haven't even bothered to deal with one now, but looks like things are working anyway..my hipflexers are really tigh today..both sides, so I really got to roll out when I go for ballet later...knee and thigh are ok.....I'm also really dense,...where are you,  Shade....thought ..you,East coast or Europe Karen and I are west stateside and Boydy in Australia..fun fun with all these time zones..anyway..regarding chocolate...tried to overeat one day(long ago and far away) so I would hate chocolate later...doesn't work..chocolate tastes just as good anyway..no matter how sick you get(got very sick YUC)...but dark choccolate is good for you..best antioxidant on the market...Boudy, good that you though better of swimming your heart/knee out..and one day of chocolate indulgence is not gonna do that much damage..and good luck in the snow Shade..take it easy..don't want take any knid of spill on those knees

Hugs ya'll

..regarding the hair cut..I wanted to go really short and let my WHITE(yeah , white) hair grow, but he wouldn't let me..said I have to wait till 45 at least..so I'm red and semi short..but look good


Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 17, 2006, 11:18:06 PM
Hilde,

With your active life with the ballet, probably there would be no need for you to be using these machines.  I'm wearing my brace while on the machine and around the track and it keeps my patella in place for the most part.  I'll take it easy......

I'm in Canada on the east coast..... It's 25 degrees F here right now and it's COLD, but it could be worse so we won't complain.

Glad you like your hair - certainly gives a person a lift.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 17, 2006, 11:56:27 PM
Actually, I'm on the East coast of the U.S., Hilde. :) Oh, and I've tried that trick of eating a lot of chocolate (or cookies or cake LOL) because then "I'll be sick of it and won't eat it again." Yeah, I don't recommend that tactic -- doesn't work.  :P
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 18, 2006, 01:56:20 AM
Okey so I'm the only westerner..Karen,don't know why I thought you were in Arizona..anyway..got the idea of overeating from my dad...during the war they couldn't fresh fruit, so they got coconuts..don't ask how, but my dad had so much it made him sick and since then he's not been able to even smell it before he gets sick..but no, not chocolate.....taking a break from ballet right now, 1/2 hour between classes...tried to do my exesizes, but my hipflexes and itb's are acting up...so roll it is..I used to be active in ballet, now it's mostly stretching, so I need to get some kind of cardio in....hence being on Karen's other post..staying thin while not doing anything..will go bounce on the ball a few minutes before my students get here....ladies and gentlemen ages 20 -60..beginners..fun fun....and then home and dream of Fiji....or Hawaii or......

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 18, 2006, 02:58:40 AM
Hey Hilde,
I'm with your hairdresser....(I'm allowed to say this because I used to be one),  DO NOT LET THAT  'WHITE' HAIR TAKE OVER !  Now you look cute,  do you think it would be cute when left white. I know when my white hair is coming through, I feel so old and yukky, I am so glad I have hairdressing behind me, I attack mine with colours every two weeks, ( my friends and family say it is all going to fall out soon  :o )  I put aurbun and plum colours around the bottom and sides, then I put blonde streaks through the top ,  its fun, ( but sometimes I have a blunder and I end up with some 'cochenial' streaks.  :-[ ) in other words 'pink hair'!!
 You guys still talk in Farenheit,  do you have Celcius (degrees) ?
Shade,
I just had to have a go on the elliptical today thinking of you at the gym, ( I only did it for 3 min, just to have a 'taste' )  When you say your knees hurt 3 hours after, do they swell up as well ? And do your knees ever hurt when you are actually on the equipment ?  Thats when it is hard to tell just how far you can go, hey ?
Karen,
well, after my yukky day yesterday, I took the bull by the horns today, got dressed up...... did the hair ....   and went to the employment agencies and handed in my resume, then went up to the school and handed one in there, (just for relief work) that way if it is a bad day when they ring I can say no.  Only after some temp work at the moment so I can see how my leg will hold out.  I won't know if I can do it unless I get out there and give it a shot........ I was very brave.... because I am scared to death to get outside of my  'comfort zone', but am going crazy sitting around and looking at the walls !!  ::)   How about you, are you still considering doing some job hunting ?
Well girls, hope you are all having a good day,   :D
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 18, 2006, 03:38:07 AM
(http://www.mauritius.net/image/beaches.pic1.jpg)
Hey Hilde, how does this go with your daydreams.  ;)    Weather is a bit like that over here at the moment,  ;D   and I am lucky enough to be going somewhere this week-end, to soak up that sunshine and swim at  a lovely beach, ( mind you not as good as the one in the pic   :( )  but good enough !!  ;)  Will think of you all while I am basking in the sunshine.   :P
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 18, 2006, 12:42:31 PM
Hi everyone.....

Think if a person finds a facility just right for your needs, that might make the difference.  Yesterday is the first time in so very long that I've managed to walk without severe pain.  I think this surface made a great difference. 

Boydy, yes we are celcius, but our southern friends aren't - so, I always say fahrenheit.   How are you doing now?? 

Have a good knee day everyone.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 18, 2006, 03:03:35 PM
Quote
I've been thinking that it would be so nice if I could manage to get back to walking 5 miles a day again

I would be happy with three...or two! LOL! But I know what you mean, Shade. I used to feel so good after my walks...and especially after I had added some upper body weight training. Wow, I was in the best physical shape I ever have been. Oh, well. Maybe again someday. Baby steps, right? :)

Boydy, be careful on the elliptical -- I don't think it's a good idea to use that if you have a flareup of ITBS. And yes, I'm definitely going to get a little job doing *something* as soon as I feel confident that I will be dependable. It was so embarrassing how I had to quit after only three weeks when I got that job at the front desk at my gym. I don't ever want to deal with that sort of thing again! Actually, I don't even care if I do volunteer work at one of my kids' schools. I just want to get out of the house and mingle with the masses, you know what I mean? Of course you do! :) Anyway, it put a smile on my face to read that you were putting in your resume -- it means you're thinking positive, and that's so important. (Note to self: Take your own advice. LOL) You might be surprised that getting a job might take your mind off your knee problem enough to help it heal. I know that sounds crazy, but I've been told my more than one doctor that the mind is a powerful thing! If you sit around dwelling on a pain you feel, that pain does become magnified.

Have a great day, girls! :)
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 18, 2006, 04:57:35 PM
Godd Morning ladies..well still morning here...Great to hear you're doing so well Shade..keep up the good  work..it's amazing how happy we get when even little things go right..and you will go horseback riding again..I miss that..don't have access to one or couldn't even do it anyway right now...my sister has one...so when I go see her I'll try..won't be till April..Boydy..good for you looking for a job..substituting is great...some of my friends do that do...and like you said if they call and you have a bad day...just say sorry, maybe next time..it really makes a difference being out there with "normal" people..took 4 weeks off when my son was born  12 years ago, and I was climbing walls after 3..was entitled to 6 weeks , but just couldn't handle it...now I had 2 weeks because of X-mas..so I had some time for the knee..also I can sit down and get some help if I have problems....Karen..are you good with computers...if you can't handle a regular job, try finding sponsor for schools or clubs..we would love to have someone find sponsors for the ballet..not necessarrely  a grant writer but someone who could find people who needs to donate because of tax reason..usually the you get a findersfee or a procent of the donation...check out your local ballet school or choir or something..also what about transcribing..lots of doc and hospitals need that...but maybe the point is getting OUT of your house...Boydy where are you going....The Reef...is that far away from you...don't remember my geography right now..and yes I know Celsius., but like Shade says...we southerners use Farenheit...I try do translate for my parents..so 68F is about 18C....grew up with kilos, liters, meters and Celsius..but after 20 years of US talk I have a hard time remembering how the other stuff works..

TTFN  (tata for now)
Hilde

ps ..any of you have pain in the incision site...suddenly this morning it's kinda burning underneath????
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 18, 2006, 10:52:51 PM
Morning girls,
Shade, I was wondering what your track looked like, I have never heard of a soft track before, so in the picture it looks like a carpet or spongey type of surface, (is this right) ?  If you can walk on this track does that mean you can walk on a treadmill, or is that a different thing, ( I suppose on a treadmill, you are using different 'machanics' . And you don't have to use your cane anymore ? That would be wonderful for you to have that improvement.  ;D  Have you tried the pool yet,? Will be interesting to see how that goes.
Karen
Quote


[1.Boydy, be careful on the elliptical -- I don't think it's a good idea to use that if you have a flareup of ITBS.] 2.[ It was so embarrassing how I had to quit after only three weeks ]
1. Yep ,I should have known better, you are right, I shouldn't have tried it. Even though it was only three minutes, it swelled up and was sooo tight as soon as I got home, even iced straight away, and did mamoth workout with the roller in the afternoon, but today when I got up it is still, tight as a drum. Damit, when will I learn my lesson.  :-\
2. That is exactly what I am afraid of, that is why it has taken me this long to even put my name down for relief work and I won't go for a 'proper job', I haven't said this to any of my family or friends, (because I don't think they would understand), I would be so embarrassed if I took on a job, then my knee 'did its thing' which can happen anytime, and that is it, you have to walk with such a limp and if you can't get to sit down and elevate it to let it settle down then you have to drag your leg as you walk, ( that has only happened to me once out shopping, I' overdid the day' and didn't have brace or sleeve on, (usually always carry it in my bag in case) but left it home on the bench  :-\.  I was so far away from my car, and had to walk back dragging my leg, ( I saw myself in the shop window, and I really looked rediculous). I swore that would never happen again !!  I am scared of having to push myself when I know it is time to 'elevate' and get the wieght off my leg. ( That is what you have to do if you have a job, you have to keep going, even if you know you shouldn't)  This is scaring me, I think I have talked myself out of working, (especially when my knee is so tight today)  What on earth was I thinking !!!   Oh well I can always say no if they ring.  :-[
Hilde,
No we aren't going as far as the reef, just to a beachhouse  2 hours drive away. But it is lovely, we aren't far from the reef, we live on a harbour, and my hubby has a boat and goes to the reef fishing, takes about 2 hours to get out there, but they usually get a lovely feed of fish, its a huge day, they leave at 4am and get home just on dark.
As to that pain at the incision site, I had that a few months after my surgery and the PT said it is scar tissue building up behind the wound, so he massaged it out,  :o  oooouch, it killed, but he said it had to be done, as it was getting 'caught up in nerves etc,'. So give it a good rub.  ;)
Boydy

Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 18, 2006, 10:55:17 PM
GOSH,...... I'LL GET THESE QUOTE THINGS RIGHT ONE OF THESE DAYS !!!!!! BEAR WITH ME LADIES   ;)
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 18, 2006, 11:39:48 PM
Boydy,

The track consists of a rubber-like material and it is soft (spongy-like).  It is a special material designed expecially for these inside tracks.  I have never been on a surface like this before and there aren't many of them available SO we are lucky we can use it. 

If the storm stops here, I'm going to try again tomorrow and will let you know how it goes. Don't have to use my cane since my knee has settled down again.  Usually with the brace my leg is quite stable and I actually walk without a limp - problems begin without the brace.

Won't be using the pool until I can build my stamina back up again.  Not much sense as the pool plays you out quite fast and by the time I get there it would be time to get out. They would let me, but the guy thought that building myself up with the track and the elliptical at first is good and then start adding things slowly.  Funny because Rozzzie told me the same thing today, so know I'm getting consistant info. 

Hope everyone has a great evening,  the wind is going to blow us away here.   WOW.....
       
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 19, 2006, 12:17:00 AM
That's what I was afraid of, that you were going to say that it didn't go well with the elliptical, Boydy. :( I'm sorry! Well, at least now you know, right? Seems I learn everything the hard way when it comes to what aggravates the ITBS.

I used my e-stim today for 20 minutes. I cannot believe how long it took to get a "rise" out of my VMO! The first time I used it, I didn't notice my VMOs responding at all...the second time, my left one (my better leg) would twitch a little bit (so weird!)...and this time, the twitching in the left eventually turned into full-blown muscle contractions. But it took quite awhile! My right finally starting twitching a bit in the last ten minutes. Wow, it's amazing how "dead" these muscles have been -- it's no wonder I've had chronic problems! That certainly wasn't going to get better on its own.

Anyway, I know what you mean about the wind, Shade! It was actually a bit frightening at times today! My four-year-old said at one point, "Mommy, are we going to blow away?" LOL!

Hilde, now you have me dreaming of beautiful islands and nice, warm weather...  :P That's funny that you thought I was in Arizona. Nope, I'm in the midst of this lovely (insert sarcasm here) New England winter. *sigh*
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: stgiles16 on January 19, 2006, 01:51:03 AM
Karen, what setting do you use your e-stim on? I only use it on my bad leg but I crank it up relatively high. My problem is that even just using the e-stim inflames me knee. I am going to ask my OS about it tomorrrow. My e-stim can go really high in voltage but I usually use mine on about 30. Does yours also have the TENS setting? I have a feeling that after my appt tomorrow, I will be using the TENS more than the e-stim.

let me know how your e-stim goes.

missy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 19, 2006, 02:31:09 AM
Hey shade, don't worry, ...its my own silly fault and as the day goes on it is feeling a bit better. I am new at this' ITB thingy', Ive only just starting thinking about it since reading Karen's experiences and trying some of the things she does, ( and also staying away from the things that aggrevate them) MOST OF THE TIME   !!  :-\  but it is still a big learning curve for me, because, ( like you) I am on my own at the moment and have only this site to get my advice from. Sometimes I forget ( or don't know) what your suppose to do and not do.  ::)
All just trial and error,  ..... but I'm looking forward to just sitting around in the sun & surf for three glorious days, and trying not to focus on my knee AT ALL !!! We leave in the morning, so I will be absent for awhile.  Will check in when I get back and see how everyone is doing, by then you should have had a few days to see how all this track & elliptic workouts are going. I will have everything crossed for you, I hope to hear all good news, NO SETBACKS !!  ( I know we have different problems, but that elliptic machine does scare me a bit, seems to put a lot of pressure on the knee when on it , lots of weightbearing, but maybe that is OK in your case) Good Luck  :D
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Heather M. on January 19, 2006, 04:59:29 AM
Karen,

You're not totally losing it, I'm the one who lives in Arizona....sunny, warm, blue skies.  Great knee weather.  Right up until we have a front move through and temps drop 40 degrees F in a day....argh.

Heather
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 19, 2006, 04:13:56 PM
Heather, I can imagine the dry, warm air does help the knee situation. Imagine living somewhere like Seattle? All I remember from visiting there is the damp, rainy weather.

Missy, my e-stim goes up very high, but I'm just starting out so I can't seem to handle anything over 14 (what a wimp!). And I do have the pain-relief function that's supposed to kick in right after the muscle program, but I haven't had an occasion to use it yet (crossing fingers)...and I also haven't done the full 30 minutes of the muscle program that the unit is programmed for yet. And I don't know how to skip the muscle program and go to the pain relief program. I suppose I could call the 800 number and ask, but I'm just hoping I don't get to the point where I need to use it! I'm trying to work my way up with the length of time I use the e-stim, so as not to aggravate things. In fact, I used it yesterday and feel a tiny bit sore today, so I'm skipping it today. I'll just do some quad sets and use the e-stim again tomorrow if all goes well. That stinks that it flares your knee up. Even the lower settings and/or for less time?

Boydy, I know, the elliptical kind of scares me, too. Even when I felt 100% fine before this happened, I was afraid to try it because I know my knees tend to be touchy. (So why wasn't I afraid of using the leg press and weighted squat machine again?  ::) )

Edited to say: Boydy, have a fabulous time!!!
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 19, 2006, 11:36:38 PM
Good afternoon ladies...at least it is here in windy California..Heather..knew one of you girls was a westerner like me..just got you mixed up..it's the age thingy...short term memory..anyway envie Boydy big time..hope she has a great time..I'm sore today..was worse yesterday and had a really hard PT..did alot of new exersizes and quads,vmo, outer inner thighs works great..hamstrings..well that's another story....can't figure out how to fire/tense without actually touching the muscle..weird and very frustrating..ladies, how are your hamstrings...Molly, my pt says this is something old..did rip off 50% of the muscle tissue in the early 80ties, but thought by now it was fine..haven't really noticed any problems with that..but then again I have been favoring the leg and not really gotten a good workout in ages..also what's with the no heat on the knee??..I start evey session with heat directly on the knee being pushed backwards..youch,,but it feel better afterwards...very tired and sore right now..itb's ok..but hipflexer and hamstrings are "screaming" for a good stretch..on my way to ballet now, so I can accomodate that in a few minutes..until then..would like to hear your feedback on hamstrings, heat and hyperflex..

hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 22, 2006, 02:51:18 AM
IT'S WINDY AND COLD TODAY AND MY KNEES ARE NOT HAPPY.. :-[.especially the bad one..plannign on resting tomorrow as I have had a rough week with pt and classes..hope you all are doing good...

hilde :-\
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 22, 2006, 11:11:29 AM
Hilde,

Sorry that you've been having a rough time with weather.  The weather has been fluctuating like wildfire here also.  Today it is -18 C or 4 F. and windy.   Brrrrr....  I did some housecleaning yesterday as we changed somethings around in our room.  My word I hurt in places that I did not even know existed.  My knees are very stiff this morning, so I know that I overdid it yesterday.  They'll work out soon though, I'll go to the gym later on and walk 2 miles on the soft-track and try using the arc trainer full fitness machine again.
Have a great day everyone, tomorrow is always better than today.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 22, 2006, 08:45:57 PM
Shade, yes definitly..today is beautiful California normal...know what you mean..rearranged my bedroom a few weeks ago too..you don't realize how much you do until it's too late...take it easy..I'm just gonna sew some things today then watch tv and chill out..maybe even make myself a margarita.....until later.... have a good one...

hilde

now where are the rest of the girls..are you ok?
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 22, 2006, 09:11:11 PM
I'm here! :) Went to the movies twice this weekend, so I had fun! (But not as much fun as Boydy, I'm sure, basking in the sun!)

I'm really loving my e-stim. Between my arch supports and that, I think I might be turning the corner with this problem (there, I just cursed myself, didn't I?  ::) ). The knots of scar tissue in my ITBs have loosened up and are practically nonexistent pain-wise. I'm not saying I'm 100%, but I feel so much better. My knees only feel weird when I have them really bent for more than five minutes or so, like when I was sitting on a high barstool the other night. Having my legs hanging like that still kind of bugs me, too. But I was fine sitting in the movies yesterday and today. Yay!

Now, to keep a rein on myself so that I don't do too much. I think we're all famous for it, aren't we, ladies? Hilde, enjoy that margarita! Just don't let it go to your head and give you the idea that you can start doing pirouettes around the room, okay? ;)

You take it easy, too, Shade! We're having some lovely weather here, too. It was up to 60 degrees here yesterday (sorry, I don't understand celsius!) -- in the dead of winter in New England! Insane! Unfortunately, tomorrow they're predicting snow. Back to the boots, hats, gloves, scarves, etc. Oh, well!

Have a great evening (or whatever time of day it is where you are)!
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 22, 2006, 09:17:38 PM
(http://www.pipebandchicken.com/Pictures/sunburn.jpg) Hi Girls,
Yes, I'm back, and had a bit too much sun,  :-[,  (can't even wear a bra at the moment), You would think I would be old enough to know better, Oh well, the pain in my back has taken the focus off my leg for a few days.  Other than that a great week-end, lots of swimming, drinking and eating.  ;D.........HUBBY & MY DIET START TODAY !!   :(
My leg held up pretty good, did a few PT moves while in the water and I think it likes it, and walking along the beach has never really bothered my leg,( I know a lot of people say they can't walk in the sand ) I don't go for miles, and try to stay on the firmer sand.
Hilde, thats a bummer that your leg is playing up, hopefully it is just getting used to the new PT moves and is settling down by now. The heat issue is because of the swelling, ( I can only speak for me, because I'm the 'sweller' but if you have any swelling you are usually told to stay away from heat, so heat for me is only used for my tight muscles,.
Karen  How are things going with you, are you having those good days still, that estim machine must be doing some good, I haven't been able to get a hold of one yet, but am still trying.
Shade, changing rooms around will do your leg in evertime! Mine hates me moving things around. How are you going with the track (last I heard you had done 3/4 mile and were working your way up to 2 miles,  have you done the 2 yet ? Are you still doing  the elliptic, is that hurting your leg, hope everything is still going good, looking forward to hearing how its going, ( when is your appointment, with the patella knee guy ?
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 22, 2006, 09:23:01 PM
Boydy, we posted at almost the exact same time! LOL! See my post, above yours. :)

I'm so glad you had a good time, but sorry about the sunburn. :( (Such a funny picture you posted, though! LOL!)
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 22, 2006, 09:43:56 PM
Karen,

Things are looking up for you weatherwise and kneewise..... Good for you - just remember to take it easy.

TooMuchSunBoydy,

Was supposed to go on the soft-track today, but just too sore and tired from yesterday.  I'll rest today and go tomorrow.  Friday, (I think) managed to get 2 miles and (it bagan hurting), but I was happy.  The track has ideal walking conditions and it truly helps.  
I'm using the arc total trainer & like it, but can't go very fast on it, but that's okay...

(http://disney2go.disneyfansites.com/suntanning.gif)
Glad you ladies got out and enjoyed yourselves.  That's great!!  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 23, 2006, 02:52:26 AM
Karen,
glad you pointed out your post, I would have missd it!  Isn't it funny, when you feel good and are having some good days, life just gets a bit rosier, ( nightout on barstools and movies two days in a row ! )  and here I was thinking I was the only one out' playing up' !!
Then we have Hilde talking margaritas,...... mmmmm . (Thats my favourite )
That is pretty crazy sort of weather you girls are having, I would have a cold all the time with such drastic changes like that.
Shade,
is that machine you posted a picture of like an illiptical, (maybe I have the names mixed up) Does those foot thingy's just go backward adn forwards ( like skiing) or do they go sort of sround in a circle ? Thats great for you to be able to get an appointment so soon, do you have to travel very far ? Does this guy just specialise in knees only,  ( I didn't know there was a doc  like that)
This is how niave I am,..... Orthapedic surgoens,.... do they specialise in areas other than knees?
Gee,... must be toooo much sun, ( I'll blame it on that anyway) don't seem to know much today! :-\
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: jillo on January 23, 2006, 07:02:08 AM
So I bought a foam roller based on your recommendations (and my piltes instructor) and all I can say is OW!  Damn, that thing hurts.  It hurts so bad I can't even roll the middle of my thigh over it at all and my leg is quite ache-y from it all day.  Does it stretch your ITB or just crush it into submission?  Tell me it gets easier!

I'm also curious as to you thoughts on bike vs elliptical for a tight ITB.  I have to do something to build up my quads but I would hate to make the stupid thing worse after suffering through the foam roller torture.
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 23, 2006, 09:47:43 AM
Hi Jillo,
LOL, yep I know what you mean, that roller KILLS,. :o  Some days if you are doing the front of your thighs,(and you can't stand it) it helps to go real slow and also put your toes on the floor and take a bit of the weight off.  I have to try lots of dofferent antics to be able to cope with it. But it definately helps with the tightness, I don't notice it does anything if they aren't tight in the first place. I'm sorry I can't tell you it gets easier  :(  but maybe you will get better at finding ways of 'easing' into it.  Some days if my leg is toooo sore, I will just work on my hip and butt, that even feels good, and I'm sure helps in some way. ( Better than not doing it at all)
As for the bike vs elliptical. Karen will probably be the best one to answer that, as I am still learning what not to do to tighten them up. I had a go on the elliptical at the gym (only 3 min) and it didn't go well, ( Karen actually knew that I shouldn't have done it, so she seems to be very knowledgable on these ITB 'thingys')  I'm really great with these medical terminologies !  ;)
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 23, 2006, 10:26:36 AM
Jillo,

Hi there.  Here are some articles that might help.

http://www.time-to-run.com/injuries/thebig5/itb.htm

http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/2000/02_00/fredericson.htm
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 23, 2006, 03:25:55 PM
As predicted, today it's snowing like crazy! I had to clean off the car and shovel, so now I'm resting. It was a hair-raising ride to my son's school today (why it wasn't called off, I do not know). Our minivan is terrible in the snow -- I think I only had traction for about 30 seconds the entire ride. Now THAT'S scary!  :o

Jillo, if the foam roller is hurting you that much, your ITB is flared up a lot. I would not recommend riding a bike *or* the elliptical until you get it calmed down. The only things I can do for my quad without flaring my ITBs back up again are quad sets and using my home e-stim unit (which seems to be helping a LOT). There seems to be a very fine line between exercise that will help improve the situation and exercise that will make things worse when it comes to ITBS.

I don't know if it's in one of the articles that Shade posted (I haven't looked at them), but I read somewhere that the first things you should do with ITBS once the flareup calms down is hip strengthening exercises (and even these need to be started slowly and done only as tolerated). Quad work should come AFTER the hips are strengthened -- and, again, only as tolerated -- because a lot of quad exercises do tend to irritate the situation, especially when it's already in a state or irritation. Quad sets, however, are always good to keep those muscles "awake" and to help prevent any additional atrophy.

Be careful not to overdo with the foam roller. If it hurts you that badly right now, do it every other day, or even every third day. Rest and ice in between. Too much of a good thing isn't necessarily good -- essentially you need to "injure" the band in order to break up the scar tissue (this is why it hurts so much!), so if you injure it too much, you might end up with the opposite effect of what you're intending to do, you know what I mean? Actually, my upper body can't seem to take using the foam roller for more than once a week (I have a history of tendonitis in my arms and weak shoulder muscles), so I do a lot of cross-friction self massage of the area most of the time instead. It works just fine.

One tip: Try heating your thigh gently with a heating pad before rolling or massaging the band. The heat loosens up the band quite a bit, so it makes the rolling/rubbing much more effective (and a tiny bit more bearable...maybe ;) ).

Good luck!
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 23, 2006, 06:00:23 PM
Halloooo ladies..regarding foam rollers and bad itb pain..have had a hard week and itb's and hip flexers have not been happy..I have rolled as much as possible and if I can't stand the pain with my whole body weight I build something on the floor to help lift my body off the roller..like pillows or yoga mat under my upperbody and lower leg(makes a bit harder to roll, but..)...the more weight you put on the roller the more "massage" you get..I sit on it also to roll out my hamstrings and butt...my knee is doing fine today, but have pain in the tibia right under the knee..(watched  a big bruise form there day of surgergy)....strange..don't know why, but I been stretching my knee backwards, so this part is coming closer to the knee itself..ewhhh...anyway thinking of taking my daughter to our weekly Disneyland visit, then I have pt today and pilates mat class if I feel up to it..and yes the margaritas were great..usually don't like drinking alone..so I put out glasses for all of you and had one for each of us...a little over my limit(2), but since I didn't have to go anywhere it was fine..slept like a baby though...later....

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 23, 2006, 11:20:17 PM
Shade, thanks for posting those web sites, I needed an update on what this ITB is all about again, they were very good informative ( & easy to understand) ! How are you going with your track, tackled that 2 miles yet ?
Karen, no matter how many times you hear it (or read it in this case)  you always manage to pick up another tip, and everything seems to get a bit clearer, I always find myself saying, " oh yes, thats what I've been doing wrong ".  ( I have a' blonde' fringe, it sometimes takes me awhile)! Reminds me of a joke I was sent this morning, I will try to post it.

At the doctor's office...

A gorgeous young redhead goes into the doctor's office and said that her body hurt wherever she touched it.

 "Impossible!" says the doctor.   "Show me."

 The redhead took her finger, pushed on her left breast and screamed, then she pushed her elbow and screamed even more.     She pushed her knee and screamed, likewise she pushed her ankle and screamed.     Everywhere she touched made her scream.

 The doctor said,   "You're not really a redhead, are you?

 "Well, no" she said, "I'm actually a blonde."

 "I thought so," the doctor said.  "Your finger is broken." !!

OK, back to some serious stuff

Jillo, I have another tip for you with the foam roller, if it gets too much, my PT told me I can stand against a wall and use it. I tried it, definately not as effective, but as I said before, better then nothing, as Karen pointed out, if it hurts that much then they must be in a bad way and need to be loosened up any way you can.
Hilde, sorry you are having a rough week,  ( whats with the weekly Disneyland visit, are you for real !! Do you go to Disneyland every week !!! )  I told you I have a blonde fringe, take it easy on me !!     I am very envious of your margarita party, would love to have joined you. My son bought me a bottle of pre mix one year, ( it was soooo good). Our mexican restaurant that we used to inhabit quite regularly has closed down.  :'(     Anyway........   have a good day ladies.
Boydy






Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 23, 2006, 11:37:48 PM
Boydy,

Loved the joke so much I posted it for the WG's..... Really cute.

About the track - found out today that my calculations were off, guess I'm not any good at math.  Anyway, when I thought I'd gone 2 miles on Friday - it was only one mile.  Ah well!!!

Today I was sore but did manage to get round the track some today and also used the arc trainer for about 5 minutes.  Weather change here could be the culprit....

Hilde and Jillo - Hope you are both feeling better soon.  Hang in there.

Karen - Seems we are having the same type of storm.  Hate that white stuff...... called snow.... Take care.  Hopefully tomorrow will have better weather.....
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: jillo on January 24, 2006, 03:18:49 AM
Thanks guys- I'm probably being a bit of a wuss, it is getting dramatically less painful each time I use it.  That or I've broken all the nerves in my leg  ;D  More of a light bruisy ache in a few spots than the tight ITB pain.  My hip feels 100% better and I actually used my bad leg to stand up from the floor yesterday without realising what I was doing!

I'm doing (Bikram) yoga right now which is building up the inner quad for me, also seems to work the kinks out of my hips and get my leg aligned better.  It's time consuming tho (as well as torurously difficult) so I'd like to start up with the bike or elliptical again one or two days a week.  I think I will try 5 minutes of each and work up.

I'm going to go roll on the Roller of Death right now.
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 24, 2006, 04:22:49 AM
Hi Shade,

[ - found out today that my calculations were off, guess I'm not any good at math.]

No wonder your having trouble,  I've seen the way you WG's  do your maths !!   ;)
I'm glad you enjoyed the joke & passed it on to the girls, I really enjoy reading the WG's posts, it lifts up my spirits for the day.  :D

Not to worry, you have that 2 mile to work toward, I hope your not overdoing it, your leg seems to be a bit sore a lot lately, don't forget that golden rule -  slow & steady
(Listen to me, the wise old owl now, ) but it really is good advice, ( I try to follow it   :P )
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 24, 2006, 11:45:23 AM
Boydy(http://images.google.ca/images?q=tbn:d-dzzYv9RIPIVM:www2.hama-med.ac.jp/w1b/med1/image/owl.gif)

It really is exciting to actually find things that you can do.  Know what you mean though, I've been hurting quite a bit of late, but remember I've not got the help of the percocet anymore and that has made a huge difference.  Know that I was working through the pain on the percocet and that was not helping as my other os suggested, it was just masking everything.  Sometimes I could just kick myself at my stupidity.

Hilde

Hi,  you mentioned the femur in an Instant Message, I believe that is the femoral anteversion and the tibia shifting is tibial torsion.  I've been told that I've got this, but will wait & see for sure once I've been re-examined.
I'm really at a stage where I'm wondering if anything has been done properly for my treatment.  Time will tell, so I'm just playing it one day at a time like the rest of you.

Have a great day everyone.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 24, 2006, 10:33:39 PM
Hi y'all..I'm back and better...had a hard workout yesterday, but PT worked out some of the rough spots..were actually balancing on one leg for 30 sec on rise...had to touch a balance bar now an again, but felt good,,today I had a visit with my doc..and he's amazed how far I've come..however he doesn't let up with the PKR....Shade..regarding the slipping I'm feeling is the femur coming down on the tibia in different spots..I have mostly stage 3 OA, but stage 4 close to the middle, when I'm feeling like my knee slips, it is the rest of the bone touching all through out..or something like that..nothing is gonna change that, so if you have the same it unfortunatly means we have "old lady" knees...but doc is happy my muscles are coming back again..like he said..the fitter and weightconscious I am the better..I am 5'9" and 145lbs so I'm not by any means fat, but he would like to see me at 135..so would I....so no more margaritas or junk food..I'm going back in month and would like to loose 5-6lbs by then..was 118lbs when I was professional..not ever going back there, but 135..I can handle that....and yeah great blond joke Boydy..and yes I we go to Disneyland every Monday ..have an annual pass...have been going since before my daughter turned 2..meet up with a friend whose daughter is same age as mine...go on Small world..meet a few princesses and lunch.....this is our last year..she starts kindergarten in the fall..so no more daytrips...yesterday was so windy it wasn't fun at all..one of my good friends plays the White Witch from Narnia..and they wouldn't let her out...was afraid she was gonna blow away..today is better..but still windy(not cold)...anyway..will just keep on going as usual...muscles are sore..but a good sore and doc..what does he know...I can still do ballet...at least for a few more years...and Boydy if you can't find a margarita mix, you can use frozen lime juice concentrate..it's almost as good..until  later....

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 26, 2006, 02:19:56 AM
Hey, I just had to tell you guys about these new exersizes I learned..none NWB, but hard as heck...using alot of muscles in the lower leg....
Foot work on the wall
1.forefoot tap
2.heel tap
3.forefott sweeps
4. heel sweeps
5. doming
6. caterpilars
7. curled toe taps
8. wall jump prep
9. wall jump

ever heard of these?..I just made it through 4..was too fatigued to do the rest...if you're interrested I'll explain later..

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 26, 2006, 03:53:51 AM
Shade, I take it ,'percocet' is a pain med,. I had that same thing said to me from my PT. I had an appointment made for a Pain Management Specialist, but when I told my PT he said, defianatly not to do that because he didn't won't me to mask the pain.  :-\  How you holding up?

Hilde, do you know how lucky you are ?  You might not realize it, but over here in Australia, that is 'most' peoples ultimate dream holiday, to take their kids to Disneyland!!! That is why I was blown away to think you go there every week. :o We have a theme park called Dreamworld,(similiar but on a way smaller scale) it is about 7 hours drive from my town and we took the kids there when they were little, but it is quite expensive, $60( aus ) each for the day.
 Balancing one one leg on rise (does that mean on tippy toes) that would kill me, I would swell up for a week !!!  Do you get any swelling, I get the feeling that swelling isn't an issue for you. You seem to be able to weight bear ok. If so that is really good, because once you are able to weightbear I think your muscles respond so much better.
These new exercises you are doing, are they from the PT or are they ballet ones? I have never heard of them before, but would like a discription, I'm always looking for new things so that I don't just work the same areas.
I had my myio-facial massage yesterday,  OMG, it killed, and I am quite tight today, but that usually happens the next day, and should be improved by tomorrow.
Karen, no news is good news, I take it you are having some good days, I hope that is the case, you were on a good roll, hope that is still the case.  :D
Take care, have a good day ladies,
PS, We are having our Australia Day holiday here today, so HAPPY AUSTRALIA DAY (http://webclipart.about.com/library/holi/aus3st.gif)
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 26, 2006, 05:18:21 PM
Hi, hi, yes I guess I am spoiled and yes Disneyland is expensive...think $62 for adults and $57 for children..I have like a said an annual pass specially for Californians living within a certain zip code..which cost me $99 per year for each of us..I can go only Mon - Fri and I'm blocked out on major Holidays. but then again don't want to be anywhere near Disneyland on X-mas or 4 th of July...Boydy..I have swelling albeit not alot...I also have very little pain..so I don't feel when I have overdone things until it's too late..my swelling is all around the knee and it makes it feel like my skin is too small..not comfortable...balance on half point as in standing on my toes like normal people do when you walk on your toes..not ready for point work yet...I have abnormally high arches and can "pop on point" without any effort..which I don't want..need to retrain those muscles first..just found out also that my high arches is one of the reasons my knee is bad..seems like I tip outward on my ankle ever so slitely, which causes ligaments and muscles around the knee to work wrong..the footwork on the wall is to fix this problem and retrain lower leg and thigh muscles to works in line again..very hard..these are pilates work by the way..will post this and come back to explanation, my daughter is asking for help gettong her tighs on..

HIlde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 26, 2006, 05:41:38 PM
Footwork on the wall

Lie on your back, feet on the wall, thighs at 90 degrees form hip, feet up high enough to so you just see you toes just over your knees..feet parallelle..middle toe in line with knee..tail bone on the floor, middle loose, ribs down..(this is good for you tummy)..keep knees and feet about 4-5 inches apart, I squees a ball between my knees to engage inner thigh..anyway
1 Forefoot tap...keep heels on wall and tap toes on the wall rhythmically 8 times for 10 sets
2 Heel taps...keep toes on the wall, tap heel on the wall rhythmically 8 times for 10 sets
3 Forefoot sweep..keep heels on the wall, sweep toes ouwards to nice Y shape, life toes up(flex) parallelle feet and put toes and the wall again..do this 4 x in slow tempo, then reverse the movement..start parallelle, flex feet,.. open out to Y,.. feet on wall and sweep in 4 x slow
4 Heel sweeps..same as toes sweep only lifting the heel and keeping toes on the wall...

I haven't tried the others yet so I'll wait till I've done them to explain...if you can do all 4  you've done great ...my ankles and all upper and lower leg muscles were shaking after doing these..everything is really slow...helps to have some good music on..it's easiers to keep a constant tempo..good luck

Hilde ;)
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 27, 2006, 03:28:50 AM
Hilde,
finished off at the gym today with your excercises, after I did my stretches.  oohhhh, I don't think those poor old muscles have had any workout for some time, they fatigued quite quickly, ( but a good feeling) You know when you stretch or work on an area that has been 'dormant' and it gets that tired fatigued feeling,( hard to explain)  ::) Hopefully they won't affect my swelling, it has been a few hours and so far so good. I have been concentrating on working my quads & hamy's I don't think my calves have got a look in for quite some time. Thanks for the info.  :D
Shade,
thanks for the well wishes, we didn't do the official Australia Day activities, too many people, not into crowds these days, we had a nice day though, went out for lunch and took the dog on an outing.  Hope your knee is holding up to the track work. Take care   :D
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 27, 2006, 04:15:44 AM
Boydy, yes those exersizes certainly works the calves...didn't even think about it, but Molly and Mary, my tag team PT"s both mentioned that my periniel(don't know if that's how you spell it) is very weak..Shade..this is something you should look into too..the periniel runs outside of lower leg and helps aline the knee..I've been so preoccupied with keeping knees over toes and not rolling inwards, so I never paid attention how my foot rolls abit outward..so like Mary said she could see how I would have problems with my knee because of this..anyway these exersizes should do the trick..feeling like I'm going forward two steps then back one..so once again ..good title on subject..hope you all have a good day and Happy Belated Aussie Day....Boydy....like you said..Hope no news means Karen is Ok..

Hilde.
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 27, 2006, 12:36:19 PM
Hi,

Peroneal nerve problems does fit & I've asked many times if that could be my problem.  Seems they all want to concentrate only on the knee.  I've got hindfoot valgus, flat feet & pronation - you'd think they'd be interested & check out the peroneal nerve.  I've also got that cord snapping everytime my knee flexes & that sounds comes from the hip area.  These problems are all tied together & should be treated together, I think. 
In my opinion, the biggest problem is that patients aren't steered in the proper direction.  If a patient is referred, the fees for the appointment are cut drastically.  That's reality......
I'm looking forward to seeing a specialist who will check hip, knee and leg, answer some questions and give treatment options.  That's all anyone asks for - it should not be so hard to find.

Boydy, know what you mean about the tired but good feeling with exercise.  Hope you are okay today. 

Hilde, will try some of the stretches, thank you.....

Karen, hope all is okay with you.  Have not seen any posts in awhile.....
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on January 27, 2006, 02:57:37 PM
I am here! I don't have much time today, so I can't read/comment on all that you've written (but I will, soon!). I'm doing well. Acupuncturist said my ITBs are *much* looser. I discovered that the hand-held massager that I bought for my shoulder/neck tightness works wonders on the ITB! I just press it in and let the vibration do some work, all along the bands. It definitely does something because my legs are like jelly afterwards! And I think that's what made them so much looser this past week.

So, doing well, and I hope you all are, too! I promise to check in soon, but my son's 4th birthday is coming up and we're inviting all his little preschool friends. So, between cleaning the house and preparing the actual party, I'm SWAMPED!  :o
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 27, 2006, 04:41:32 PM
Karen,

First off, Happy Birthday to your son......

Secondly, Congratulations to you..... Good going.  That is the best news I've heard in a long time.  Someone is actually finding something that is helping their condition. 

Don't overdo today.  Nice hearing from you again.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 27, 2006, 05:16:05 PM
Karen, Happy Birthday to your son..I have a 4 year old daughter..such a fun age..I also have an 11 year old son..such a "tweenie"....being busy is good..hope your knees are holding up....Shade..peroneal(thanks)...no one looks at the BIG picture..you'd think they notice your feet as they would determine how you walk, dance and stand and this again determine how you injure and rehab...I have never been told about this problem before and they all know I dance and they all comment on my feet(superhigh arches)..guess these girls(ladies) in PILATES really pay attention to everything...my OS is just now getting into pilates and recommends it to most of his patients over regular pt...now regarding these wall exersizes..how are you doing today Boydy..knees OK?..if combined with inner, outer thigh and quad and vmo exersizes maybe we can fix this...I'm feeling alot better these days although I'm struggeling big time with how to isolate each muscle and work them all togther..frustrating for someone who's used to getting things right..right away..but learning new things is hard..kinda like tapping you head with one hand and rubbing your belly with the other...it takes time to learn...besides the point..ever think about how you cross your arms over your chest??now cross them the other way...I really have to think about that...I guess what I'm trying to say is...besides injuries, there is a reason we're all having problems..so now we just got to unlearn all the bad things we do and learn new things to fix it....harder with age...much harder...also just read in Self magazine about the things you eat have an effect in how your joints heal and work..muscles too..are you guys thinkning about your diet..besides trying to keep the weight down??....maybe I should..anyway...later y'all

hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 27, 2006, 10:27:15 PM
Morning girls,  :D
 
Karen, good to hear you are doing so well, I think we have isolated a big part of our 'advancment', (keeping those ITB muscles loose) as soon as I loosen them I have way more strength. Although when I had my massage on Wed, it took two days for the tightness to go, (usually only takes one,) but this time she forgot to go a bit gentle, it really hurt and the next day I was very bruised, so I will remind her next time that we are being a bit more gentle with me.  ::)
Happy Birthday to your son, ( I bet he is adorable) 4 is a wonderful age, ( gosh I miss my kindy kids   :( )  When we went to The beach last week-end, there was a 4 year old next door & she came down to the beach with us,  That was the hilight of my week-end, I had so much fun just talking to her.  This might sound wierd, but sometimes I would rather talk to children then adults, they are so sincere and innocent & and say what they think !   ;D  OK mellancholy moment is over!  :P   
Hilde,  yay , your new exercises didn't make me swell, and calves feel real good this morning, will tackle them again after brekky.  Yes, started back on 'the diet' after our big blow out on the  beach week-end. Feeling better already, not so bloated.  ;)
Shade,  you are so fully armed with sooo much knowledge about you pacific problems, surely this doc will be able to come up with something 'concrete' to tell you.  Especially when you can tell him exactly what is going on. Even though he is a Patella specialist, will he take into consideration your other areas,  muscluar, feet, hips etc.   That seems to be the answer dosn't it, finding someone who will look at the 'big picture'.  My last OS, all he seemed to focus on is, " which knee operation do you want" ?   :o    :-\   
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 27, 2006, 11:21:26 PM
Boydy,

That's good news that you've done well after the exercises. 
About seeing this surgeon I'm not sure who to go to be checked using 'the big picture', but obviously that's what's necessary for some people like the people in this group.  It's not just one thing that is wrong with any of us.  Think that is why these surgeons we've seen don't really know how to handle our symptoms.  Think a person needs someone with alot of experience and that is what I'm shooting for this time experience.  Otherwise just don't know where to turn. 
Can only hope that this is the place with a solution.......
Catch you later.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 30, 2006, 05:25:44 PM
Halloooo ladies, hope you all had a good weekend..mine was fine.. ;)Saturdays are usually hell on my knee..5 classes without any break..killer..as usual my knee was aching when I got home allthough it's getting better all the time..actually starting to look normal..can see the shape of the knee cap now, not just a big  blob of stuff, tendons and muscle are shaping up too..used to have "killer "legs and now I just have leg..as in one..but like I said the other is coming back..just rested after coming home... sewing 2 tutus and 2 dresses for compititions..so I have lots to do without dancing..had to cancel my PT today..no baby sitter..and even though my daughter is really good , don't think she can handle 2 hours there..lots of older patients.probably not so happy a wild 4 year old running around trying all the machines....anyway...will take pilates mat class instead at the studio...regarding the diet thing....read that grapes, spinach and kiwi is supposed to help agains swelling and promote healing of joints, ...pecans, quinoa??? and spinach maintains muscle and nerves..now..I don't really eat any of those things..beside grapes, but maybe I should..what your take on this..?
and Shade..hopefully you'll find a doc who is willing to look at the big picture..don't think there is a doc out there who knows everything, but one eho is willing to work together with other specialist exists..you just got to find her/him..and the more you know....if I was a doc I would be facinated by your story and problems..good luck still....
 :)

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 30, 2006, 11:51:35 PM
Hi Hilde,
I'm glad you are still coming along well, (getting those 'killer' legs back)  ;)     About the spinach etc, I find that all those things may help, ....... but you have to eats 'truckloads' of the stuff to do any real good. And have to do it for ..... like an eternity... before you start to see results. I'm afraid I'm not that good at doing things for a long time,.  :-\    I  have been told more than once about this oil ... Arnica oil.... it is suppose to be pretty magic stuff for rubbing into inflamed and sore joints. It is on my 'to do' list, will let you know if I find it and it has any benifits. I had a big shopping day in our near by ( 1 hour away) city. Was shopping all day so was expecting swelling today, but YAY ! so far so good, not bad at all today, I wore my knee sleeve the whole day, so that would have helped, but am very encouraged that I am not feeling any after effects. I have a big 'girls week-end coming up next week.  Five of us girls are going to the 'big city' 6 hours drive away. To see a musical  'Dirty Dancing'    and of course shpping and markets are definately on the list. They are my best girlfriends for fun and 'frivilarity'  so we are bound to have a ball, lots of champagne & ( & definately a few margaritas )  we love to sing and dance, ( although the dancing part may be out for me this time around   :( )   So yesterday was just a little test run to see how my leg would handle a whole day out walking. (Especially when my knee was actually playing up the day before)  So I am very happy that I handled it !  ;D
Hope everyone else is doing just as good. 
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 31, 2006, 12:18:47 AM
(http://www.parkfallswi.com/wildgooseresort/images/winter-trail.jpg)

Boydy, Hilde, & Karen,

Well, sounding like things have been going pretty well for you three - That's GREAT!!
Decided I'd go for a walk on the winter trail instead of going to the gym.  Well, managed to have a nice brisk walk but began limping before I got home & within three hrs - OUCH.  Anyway, I'm just resting & waiting till this all settles down & I'll return to the soft-track at the gym, hopefully tomorrow.
Boydy, I'm impressed with you being able to shop all day - WOW!!  Your exercising and stretching sounds like it's working.   The 'girls night out' sounds like alot of fun..... ENJOY!!!
Have good knee days, ladies......   ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on January 31, 2006, 06:48:38 AM
(http://www.hud.gov/kids/images/sad.gif)   Shade,   that is so disappointing,  but that was a long way to go on an uneven surface.  ( But of course you don't need me to tell you that now do you !!)  ;)  Don't we all just do the exact same thing, then wonder what on earth we were thinking !   Oh well, you never know until you try.  And we can't just give up trying these things.......... one of these days you will attempt something and it won't backslide at all.  ;D  Just hope it only takes one day to get back to where you were. Then no harm done & back into that track work.  Let us know how you go over the next day or so.
Yes I am very happy with my acheivment yesterday, it is afternoon and still no effects.  ;D
Chow
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 31, 2006, 01:53:14 PM
Boydy,

Thanks, just can't stop trying to do things we love.  Well, today is day 'three' since my little excursion on the trail, so hopefully I'm ready because I'm going anyway.....
I'm definately impressed with your achievement. 
We knee people get excited about things that other people take for granted.  Other's just don't understand what it is like only 'knee club' people seem to understand.
Shopping for a day without pain or walking a couple miles on a trail shouldn't be milestones, but for us they are.  That's just the way it is right now.......
Hope today is another good knee day.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on January 31, 2006, 05:14:29 PM
Good morning ladies...Shade ..sorry to hear about your "aowee"...but you're right..you still gotta try doing the things you love..bet it was worth it anyway..being out in the beautyful area...Boydy good for you ..shopping..one of my favorite "sports"...sure gets your heart going..especially when there is no extra money for all the things I want..not necesserly need..arnica oil..it works..I use arnica gel..it takes down the swelling and promotes healing...tried a version with petrolatum and some other things..no good, go for the gel..as in silicon or something..mine 's almost empty so I cant read the ingredients on it any more..tried to look up Queensland on google..oh my gosh it's huge..looked at the pictures from the reef and other places..sure is beautiful...but far away..6 hour drive to you big city..hope you're staying for a while...I have to go to Downtown L.A. (40 minutes away)today..garment district..have some fabric shopping to do for these costumes I'm making..lots of walking..have to bring my daughter as she' sick and can't go to school today, so I have an excuse to bring a stroller to hold on to if neseccary..don't reallly think I need it... but walking on city streets is very different from even Disneyland.. not so smooth surfaces..as I'm sure you know Shade..anyway have a good knee day...

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on January 31, 2006, 08:35:17 PM
Hilde,

Making the costumes sounds like fun.....  Have fun shopping for the material.  Hope your daughter feels better soon. 
Well, I went with hubby for a walk on the trail today & got 1/2 mile before pain started & we turned around & headed back.  I'm icing and elevating but like it gets OLD...  I'll not give up though, I'll keep trying.  Know I'm stubborn, but that is just me.......
I've not tried the arnica gel, but I use MSM with Glucosamine & it also feels great when rubbed into the knee & leg muscles.  Would not be without it.....
Hope you have good luck with your shopping!!  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on February 01, 2006, 01:26:37 AM
Shade, keep on going..be the energizer bunny...those knees will get better..do you take glucosamine orally also..I take 2000mg per day..liquid..used to take pills, but bought the liquid to test it..tastes nasty, but it was too expensive to waste, so as soos as it's gone, I'm going back to the pills..never tried the lotion..you should really try the arnica..I get mine online through homeopathy..something...can;t seam to find a homeopathic pharamacy around here..sure there is one, but I drive enough as it is..down town L.A went great..found everything within a few blocks of each other so it wasn't too much walking..my daughter is feeling better..thank you....having pt again in the morning..are you still seing someone or are yop left to your own device..any luck on the P.F specialist....and where is Karen..how was the birthday party..lots of cake I hope...... until tomorrow...

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on February 02, 2006, 08:44:53 PM
Did something stupid on Tuesday..demostrated a jump..leap...to the right..felt ok first then poof..superswollen om the inside of knee...had to ice..which means it was bad..hardly ever use ice..did pt yesterday..not much pain, but swelling still there..loosing lost of mobility with the swelling..but like I said...not too bad painwise..still swollen today..and stiff..will take it easy..have the "knee police" in class today( 2 laidies who watches me carfully)..they stop me before I do stupid stuff...but the music was so great and I had great chorograpy....dang it..well..guess I'll just sit today...later.... :'(

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: jillo on February 03, 2006, 05:37:17 AM
Just wanted to give you a quick update on the ITB problem!  My foam roller is getting progressively less painful, which I take as a good sign.  I've also been to see a Rolfer.  Very interesting, I plan on doing the full treatment over the next 4 or 5 months.  I told her my medical history and asked her to work on my ITB.  She commented that it was very tight but that I was less "owee" than she expected, which I put down to the foam rollers crushing super-powers.  The treatment seems to have helped a lot, my leg is much looser and I can sleep on that side for the first time in a long time with no hip or thigh pain.  I have had myo-fasical work on that leg numerous times in the past with only temporary results so I'm hopeful.

I'm also keeping up with the Pilates and Bikram yoga.  Went hiking today and did quite a lot before I felt any lateral pain!  Yay.
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on February 03, 2006, 05:22:50 PM
Jillo..that's great....I've tried a kind of rolfer too..he was a dance masseur..same concept..deep tisiue..youch indeed...Shade..emu oil..we should get Boydy's opinion on that...same area..right??.anyway..what is it suposed to do??  knee feeling ok..still a bit swollen, but not so tight..was kind of good in class yesterday..had to leave early(20 min) because my babysitter called and said my daughter was having allergic reaction to her medicin...nothing serious, but hives on a 4 year old is not fun..got her some anti histamine and she fell asleep..she's ok today..so now we know..no more penicilium for her..going for pt again today..Molly's been working on my scar..stretching it out and making it softer..dang that hurts more than anything..itb's tight, but not more than usual..Saturday I have 5 classes, so that's going to be hard, but then Sunday is superbowl and I'm not doing anything..might watch the game, but still have some costumes to do...so have a good knee day..

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on February 04, 2006, 11:43:21 PM
(http://www.telemarksnett.no/bilder/akti_sommer/go_cart_thumb1.jpg)  Hi Girls,  sorry I've been out of action for a few days.  My son is home for the week-end and we also had rely's come for the week-end to do Go-Cart racing, so we have been very busy entertaining, sightseeing and watching the races !
My leg is holding up really well, ( my hubby & I also celebrated our 26th Wedding anniversary the day before they all arrived, so we had a 'special night out' ,  ;) the place where we stayed had a pool, so I was able to at last get into a pool and try out a few excercises in the pool and I am happy to say it didn't swell or missbehave at all, so I am thinking the pool is next on my list for attack, ( but slowly off course)   :P.
Shade, I have heard that emu oil is very good, my mum is right into it, but she believes there is certain types that work better. The ones you just buy off the shelf in the supermarkets ( she has been told), don't do a lot of good, you have to do your research and buy PURE Emu oil, and that is supposed to be 'wonderful stuff'. I have been too busy to search out the Arnica gel, but that is the one I am going to have a go at for sure!!
Hilde, thats tough that your daughter is allergic to penicillin, limits some options when sick, but there is so many things on the market now, I am allergic to the other antibiotic, Bactrim, .... I had the same effect, but unfortunately it didn't start affecting me until I was about 3 days into the course, so I blew up like a balloon because there was so much in my system.  :o
Jillo, I'm glad the roller is getting less painful, ( actually it is for me too, so we must be doing something right hey !)  I haven't heard of a 'Rolfer',  curious to know what that is ?.
Hope you are all having a good week-end, mine has been great,  good to have a good one for a change !!!
 ;D
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on February 05, 2006, 12:21:03 AM
Boydy,

Happy Anniversary to you & Hubby.  Glad you got away.

Sounds like the company was fun, hey Go-Carts....

Rolf·ing 
A technique of deep muscular manipulation & massage for the relief of bodily & emotional tension.

Sounds like things have been going very well for you & Karen.  Think you're leaning how to handle your situations better and you are reaping the rewards now.   It's Great!!

Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on February 05, 2006, 01:17:42 AM
Hallooo..I guess it is my turn to be in trouble...after the (stupid)jumps I did on Tuesday, my knee is still giving me problems..really swollen on top and pain shoots down in medial side of tibia...have done alot of calves exersizes , but mostly on the peroneal..anyway...plan to do nothing tonight and tomorrow..have been taking 600mg of ibuprofin every 4 hour to keep pain and swelling at bay, but so far no releaf...dang..can' t belive how things are right now..my daughter is doing great..antibiotic finally out of her system and she back to her normal sweet self..I will go and finish the bottle of  redwine I opened the other day..been a few hours since I took painkillers so I should be ok to drink a glass of two..so Boydy..Happy 26th anniversiery and continue enjoying your family..will fly to Texas in 2 weeks for a babyshower for my brother and his wife...and the rest of you girls..have a good knee weekend.

Hilde :(
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: jillo on February 05, 2006, 03:51:54 AM
Rolfing is like a deep massage but more so.  Supposeldy it is a pretty permanent fix to a lot of soft tissue issues, it definetely seems to be so far! 
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on February 05, 2006, 04:33:41 AM
(http://images.google.com.au/images?q=tbn:k5ub-TdUoxmfLM:http://www.red-wine-and-health.com/assets/images/imgRWAHhome.jpg)
http://images.google.com.au/images?q=tbn:-(http://ninaveririchi.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/Choclate%2520Introduction%2520Picture%2520NEW.jpg)
Hi girls,
was just sent this email and really liked this quote at the end,  thought I would share this piece of wisdom with you,  hope it makes you smile as it did me.   ;)

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"


Oh well, only one of my pictures turned out,   :(  the other as you will guess was chocolate)       ;D
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on February 05, 2006, 07:02:13 AM
Thanks Boydy...needed that right now..this is the worst pain I've been in so far..unless you count the initial injury..anyway..drank the rest of the bottle..about 2 glasses and I'm ready for bed now..even though it is 70f in the house I'm cold, so ontop of everything I might be getting what my daughter had last week..sore throat and ear infection..very itchy in both the throat and ears..so beddy bye I go...will defintily keep your quote in mind....hei skaal..


hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on February 05, 2006, 01:59:33 PM
Oh, Hilde, I'm so sorry to see that you've had a backslide from doing the jumps. :( I hope things get back under control quickly. Just take it easy. We definitely learn the hard way what we can and cannot do, don't we? (I would find it hard to avoid getting carried away with the music playing, too, though!)

Well, my son's party went without a hitch. Yay! He had so much fun, as did all of the kids who came (and the adults!). I'm sort of glad to have it overwith (isn't that awful??), but it was definitely a really nice little party. And my legs held up well. I didn't feel like I needed to sit with my legs up during the party, so that was good! And I was able to wear normal pants without getting that awful medial knee pain every time I sat (I had been been having to wear stretchy pants so that they don't pull against my kneecaps when I sit). That pain seems to be much better ever since I stopped stretching...but I feel like I *should* be stretching! I'm so confused. LOL

Anyway, I was worried over the past couple of days, because I did a lot more standing and walking than usual lately to get some housework done...still not nearly as much as I used to do, but a lot more than I would've been able to do even a month ago. So, progress has definitely been made. :) Let's hope it stays that way. I have learned not to trust that things are "permanently" better...and I won't be able to trust that for a very, very long time. Maybe if I feel 100% fine for, oh, a couple of months straight, I might start to trust it! But these darn muscles need to improve quite a bit before I hit 100%. I'm still struggling with that, but it's really just my right (worse) leg that's giving me trouble. The quad sets are definitely getting a little easier to do on that side, but I still have to concentrate and really push myself to get the muscle to contract correctly. The left side has become a piece of cake, however! :) I think it's going to take a long time for the right side to build up, because quad sets are such wimpy exercise. I'm going to see if things remain okay over the next week, and then I will start adding some straight leg raises.

I have to say, though, that for those of you with ITBS, you might want to try one of those hand-held massagers. I have the plug-in kind, and it's really powerful (has two speeds). I have to be careful not to go too crazy with the thing, though, because if I massage the bands too much (for more than a minute or two), and then do the e-stim and the quad sets...yikes. That was too much the other day. When I got up the next morning, I felt the old familiar tightness in my legs -- it's just a weird, overall tightness throughout my legs in general, and a warm feeling to my skin. My acupuncturist said that that was my legs telling me that it was a little bit too much. So I backed off a bit. I find that the hand-held massager makes my ITBs sooo loose, though! It's amazing! But I need to resist the urge to use it every day. Too much of a good thing isn't always a good thing, as we all know. ;)

So, that's my rundown. Boydy, I cannot believe you've been married that many years! You must've married fairly young...? This year will be our eleventh anniversary, and I'm not that much younger than you, am I?

All of this oil/gel talk is very interesting. I bookmarked some pages about the emu oil and the arnica gel. I don't think I need it now, but you never know about the future. Can't wait to hear if it helps anyone here!

Shade, I have to admit I don't know what's going on with you. I don't think I looked back far enough in the posts...? Can you give me a little summary of what, if anything, is going on? Have you chosen a new orthopedist yet? I feel so out of the loop! (I would look back and read some more, but I'm running out of "online time" right now!)

Jillo, I'm so glad to hear that you're doing better! That's great that you're seeing a Rolfer! I've looked into it, and I'm quite positive that it would help my situation, too. But it's so expensive! And my insurance won't cover it. :( And I just couldn't bear to give up the acupuncture (and I would definitely have to!), because it's been so helpful to me. But anyway, it's great news that your ITB isn't nearly as painful as it was -- something is working, and that's so great to hear!
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on February 05, 2006, 03:36:24 PM
Karen,

Had to see some local guys first before I could get referred out to see knee OS's..... The local guys did not hardly even touch my knees.  Mostly checked my ACL.....
SportsMedOS said tight lateral retinacular & extreme lateral pressure syndrome, medial slipping patella.  Recommendation - Medial plication & lateral release or whatever necessary.  
SportsMedOS said loose ligaments, slipping patella medially.  Recommendation - Scope needed.

Also, one pt took my right leg in her arm - pulled my leg over to side of table and then twisted my foot - this created a big snap and it felt like a rope broke inside my leg and I got shooting burning pain right up inside of my right leg.  She had to ice and massage my leg before I could get off table.....
Maybe some day there will be answers.....
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on February 05, 2006, 05:05:11 PM
I'm confused -- so are you now under the care of the 4th ortho? Are you having some sort of surgery? I'm sorry -- I must be a little slow today! That party apparently killed off some brain cells!

By the way, I would've wanted to kill that PT!!! When did that "snap" happen?! Was this a recent PT appointment?
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on February 05, 2006, 06:57:41 PM
Karen,

Sent you a private IM.....

Don't want to bore everyone with how things are done here.  Think Boydy also knows about this kind of treatment - she's been shuffled around also...... 
I was very naive & thought I'd just have to see one OS & either get fixed or told how to get well again with physio.  Well, that was sure wrong!! 
I've been through the phone book with PT's & none of them know how to treat my knee & the gym wants an OS release before they'll try to help.  The last OS would not release me for gym & took me out of PT & only recommended recumbent biking.  So once again it's the old Catch-22.....
This site has been very helpful, but still there aren't many people with a medial slipping patella.

Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on February 05, 2006, 07:11:45 PM
Thanks for the note, Shade. I sent a reply. :)
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on February 05, 2006, 09:17:36 PM
Hi Karen,
great to hear from you again, and to know that things are going 'well' for you. This is why these sites are so good and the advice gets thrown around,  I had one of those hand held massages sitting in my cupboard gathering dust, didn't even think of it until I read your post.  So I dragged it out and gave it a go, ohhhh it felt so good to focus on those yow spots, ( my problem will be not to 'overdo' it, the first time I did and (like the massage) makes my knee swell up. But have managed to control myself a bit better and am getting better results now.  ::)  Am wondering why you have stopped the stretches ?  I thought that was a very important part of keeping everything loose,  Have I missed something ??
And yes, I did get married young, I was only 19, Hubby was 25,  we had been together since I was 14. So we were childhood sweethearts.  ;)
Shade,
How are you going on the track,  have you given up going to the gym and walking on the soft track ?  I get the feeling you are prefering the outdoor trails, but that is hurting your leg. How is it all going ?   I am so hoping that this Dr F will know what to do for you, I can't believe that knowing you have subluxation, and even knowing how much it slips out by that he won't address this.! Fingers crossed!  I'm with Karen,  did you just have those last doc visits recently and that PT episode in the last few weeks ?  Thats terrible if you did, no wonder your poor knee is playing up !!
Hilde,
I hope you are feeling a bit better, how horrid for you to go back to so much pain after you were doing so well.  Take it easy and as you know it will improve with some rest. Hang in there.
Have a good day everyone.
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on February 05, 2006, 09:40:31 PM
No, you haven't missed anything, Boydy! Stretches *are* very important, but that medial knee pain I get was getting worse every time I stretched (and no matter which stretches I did), so I just decided to stop for awhile. And sure enough that pain isn't nearly as bad -- in fact, sometimes it seems to be almost gone. So although I know the stretches would be good for me in lots of ways, in that way they were making me feel worse, so I need a break from them. That does not mean YOU shouldn't be doing them, though! ;)
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on February 05, 2006, 09:56:25 PM
Boydy,

No, the PT did that in 2004 & it's never been addressed.  Anyway, I am hoping that this appointment will help - that is all anyone can hope for.

You are right, I really prefer the trail for walking.  I'm trying to lose weight and also enjoy my time out.  It's funny the track & the trail hurt me at about the same distance - about a mile.  It's just been so busy there probably since people are thinking about losing weight for spring.  Anyway, I'm also still biking and have been thinking about buying an exercise ball.
Can't get anymore PT or gym trainer without OS note so, I'm on my own again.

Enjoy your evening.
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on February 06, 2006, 05:11:32 AM
Karen,  ahh, I get the picture now,  ::), don't worry, nothing will deter me from my stretches, I'm quite sure that the stretches combined with the foam roller is what is making my progress a bit better.  Went swimming in the ocean on Saturday and that caused some swelling, getting tossed around in those waves I have found isn't easy, ( haven't done it since my surgery a year ago) and also, you can't see where you are walking and the sand has sooo many dips in it, (under the waves) I was forever falling down a 'hole' (so to speak)   :-\ . So I am not too surprised at the outcome, but its not as bad as it would have been a few weeks ago. So I am encouraged about that.  :D
Shade, I found my pain used to set in at the same distance as well,......... What I found was, after awhile I seemed to warm up and noticed that I was probably starting to walk just a wee bit faster at that distance,...... so I purposely made myself go slower and have found I can go just that bit further as long as I go slow.  Also , are you saying that you can't use the soft track anymore until you get a note from the OS??  Is that why you are going outdoor walking now ?  Or do you just prefer the open air and  'sunshine'.  Although if you are getting the same results from the indoor soft track & the outdoor trail, I know where I would rather be as well !!   ;)  It has been extremely busy at my gym too, finding it very hard to get a recumbersome bike for the start of my warm up, ( and as that is the only thing I can use to warm up, it is a bit frustrating.  >:(.    Speaking of loosing weight ,.... I just had a Freddo  :D ..... but it has been three days and I really was having withdrawals.   8)
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on February 06, 2006, 11:09:57 AM
(http://images.google.ca/images?q=tbn:HIJ15Y31EhL1gM:members.iinet.net.au/~dare/frogs/images/freddo.gif)

Freddo Withdrawals..... like that one Boydy..  That's cute.  I went for it yesterday too and had some chips.  You just can't be good all the time, for heaven's sakes.  What I'd give for a regular Pepsi or Coke, but I'll stick to the diet Coke..... it really isn't that bad once you get used to it.  I've been starting to lose weight, so it does make a difference getting rid of the junk food.

The same thing as you're facing at your gym and I just can't stand around and wait, standing kills me.....  And, since I seem to hurt at about the same time anyway - figure misewell be where I want to be.... the trail.

OMG - swimming in the ocean - how nice.  Sorry that it was hard on you though - amazing what bothers us.

About the walking, I usually walk very slow.  I was laughing with hubby last night when I joined him for the nightly walking the dog - I'd managed to keep up to them, but it was hard and here I thought I was almost walking like normal.  It's going to take a long time to get up to snuff, me thinks.  I'm still hoping that sometime this summer I'll be able to try my mountain bike again.

The only people that want a note are the trainers and the PT.  Can't really blame them - that's their job.....

The only reason I've not gone to the track of late is that it has just been so crowded and like you noticed the machines are full most of the time.... 
I'll go back again, it's just been so nice getting outside and enjoying nature.  Miss doing that so much. 

Hilde - Hope you are feeling much better today.  Know these setbacks so well and they really suck.  You finally think you are getting somewhere and then one little misstep sets you back again.  Try to take it easier this week.

Karen - Good to hear that you've been feeling better of late. 

Have a good Monday.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on February 07, 2006, 06:16:04 PM
Hallo ladies..I'm back after an awful weekend..guess I overdid it last week and my whole leg was just protesting BIG time..better today..had PT yesterday and went a bit slower..used alot of heat on whole leg and it seams to have calmed things down..knee still a bit swollen ontop, but most of pain is gone..just have a headache from smacking my forehead on cupboard yesterday morning..clumsy..anyway..will take things easy today..glad to see you back Karen..and that you're doing so well..Shade..good luck with this new doc..and Boydy..is it still swimming weather..we have the Santa Ana's ..windy as heck and fire season..will get up to the 90ties today and fire hazzards are huge...everything is brittle dry..especially my skin...maybe I should try to find a masseur to ease both dryness and stiffness..Jillo..hope you're doing better too..that's it for now..have to run to a staff meeting..got to talk about casting for Aladdin coming up in June..

hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on February 07, 2006, 09:56:20 PM
Shade,
Isn't it funny when we think we are walking normal, and all of a sudden you get a glimpse in the shop windows and see the 'ole arkward gait happening'. My mum was out shopping with me the other day and she said that she was walking behind me and noticed my 'slight limp' and she started doing it too, ( she had knee surgery 2 years ago, and took 18 months to loose her limp, so was quite easy to slip back into the pattern), and she had to concertrate not to do it. We both had a good chuckle over it,( funny how our minds can take over our body funtions)  ??? 
Gosh, won't that be a day to celebrate , when you can get back on that mountain bike !!  No mountains, just straight roads, I hope !!!  ;)
Hilde,
hope you are still recovering from your backslide, and forging ahead, because you were so good before it probably won't take you as long to 'get back on your feet'.
Yes it is still summer and hot here, I can't even stand wearing a tshirt at the moment, has to be no sleeves, it is really hot and humid, ( I had to look up the net to convert the temps for you, we use celsius),  it is around 90, but on Saturday it was 98 in my loungeroom !  :o  Thats the day we went to the beach, ( couldn't even walk on the sand without thongs on, burnt your feet otherwise) I forget where you live,??? I thought I was the only one having a hot summer,  Shade is having snow  bbbbbrrrrr  !!!
I think I may have done a bit much also, has been tight every morning when I get up, (thats always a sure sign)  have to be very careful as I have my big girls week-end away coming up in a few days and want to be on top of it for that !!!   :D
Have a good day everyone
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Heather M. on February 07, 2006, 10:33:02 PM
I thought of you guys today when I had a full hour--60 straight minutes--if IT band release work done.  I'm telling you, I'm a strong person, but at one point I had tears in my eyes.  The pain is so intense, so hot, so sharp....I thought of you guys and realized you're about the only ones who understand how painful and yet beneficial this is.  I mean, I sign up for it twice a week, but WOW was it painful today.  I'll probably still be cursing myo-fascial release in general and my therapist in particular tomorrow, but I'll go back for more.  This is just a freak setback--I haven't had ITB's this tight since my left one was surgically released in April.  I don't know what's going on, though I suspect it's the weather.  After a couple of disturbances/weather systems moving through in the last month, the last week has been just beautiful.  The only problem is with the clear sunny days we get a lot of dramatic cooling at night (clouds would help keep the heat in, so when skies are clear we get VERY cold nights), and sometimes our daytime high temps are FIFTY DEGREES above the nighttime lows.  That is just brutal on painful joints, though of course I appreciate the nice warm days.  We've been in the upper 60's all week.  Two days ago, my first daffodils opened up.  No joke, I have cut daffodils on the mantle right now.  In the first week of February.  Unbelievable.

Just thought I'd leg you guys know I was thinking of you during my IT band torture today....

Heather
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on February 07, 2006, 11:42:08 PM
Boydy..I'm in Southern California close to Disneyland ;D....and we are having hot hot weather...but it's dry ..hence the fires..my car was coved in ash blowing in from the mountains..bad...Heather..itbs..mine are ok..having some trouble on the front of my calves due to new exersizes..other than that..I feel pretty good..got the casting for Aladdin done..now off to class..hopefully I'll be able to NOT do anything stupid today..

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on February 08, 2006, 04:36:48 AM
Hi Heather, I've been wondering how you are . OMG a full hour..... I only have half an hour every two weeks, ( I am envious of your twice a week !!) I know exactly what you are saying about the pain,( some days more than others)  it is like a hot poker shooting through your leg  ouchhh, I had mine done on Monday and it is still a bit puffy, I have noticed the last two times she has got into it a bit harder, and it takes two days for the tightness to leave instead of one, but the benifits after that seem to be better. So that is good,  and I was quite excited on Monday, she commented that it was the first time she has actually felt my VMO muscle, ( apparently it was non existant before )  You know the part where they try to find it and push down until you scream then they release it when you tell them the pain is at 'level 2' !!!  :o    :o
Daffodils in your garden,.... how beautiful that would be ! Nice to hear from you.  :D
Hilde,  I should have remebered, Disneyland, of course  !  There's that blonde fringe working overtime again, actually I just put a rich burgandy over the rest of my streaks, but just can't do away with my blonde fringe, ( had to keep that in there) I've had it since I was 13. Its my security blanket. Its what attracted my hubby all those years ago, so better keep it around.  :P
Glad you are feeling good once again, .... Aladdin, should be fun, do you teach your pupils to play the parts, or are you in it yourself ?
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on February 09, 2006, 02:16:40 AM
Hey Boydy..feeling so much better..was very carful yesterday..wore sneakers during class to remind me not to dance around..still had a hard PT today..posterior tibialis ..very sore..Molly had to massage it out ..tried out the bike today..felt ok for 5 min..have been doing the archtrainer for cardio...hard to keep the weight underhand without any cardio...otherwise doing fine..doing alot of heat on whole leg..seams to be the thing for me..No I'm not dancing in Aladdin, but I'm in charge of  50 Flying carpets (age 4-5)...30 Monkeys(age 6-7) and Little Genies(age 8-9)..fun fun..start rehearsals in March..othewise I haven't tried anything new..

Hilde ;)
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on February 09, 2006, 06:47:01 AM
(http://images.google.com.au/images?q=tbn:XknvstSXn4354M:http://www.pure-creativity.de/cpg132/albums/userpics/10008/Dirty_Dancing_WP.jpg)
This is what I'm going to see on the week-end, we are all so excited, we leave for the trip in the morning , so I will be away for four days. I will post when I get back and fill you in on our adventures ( and how my leg holds up) . I promise I will refrain from dancing on the lounge chairs and the kitchen benches (like we usually do at our 'girl nights' after a few margaritas and champagne  ;) ) This is of course at home, never do that in public !!!  :D  Gee,  I wonder how my knee got to be this way !!!  :P
Hilde that sounds like a whole lot of fun ( and hard work) I would love to be around that sort of thing, if you weren't so far away, I would definately come and help out in anyway I could.  I miss being around all those kids, when I come back from this week-end, I entend to do some serious job hunting back in the schools. I think its time !!  :)
Talk to you all real soon,  hope you all have a great week-end.  ;D
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on February 09, 2006, 04:47:41 PM
Boydy, enjoy your trip out with the girls...careful about the "barhopping"..looking forward to hear about your adventure when you come back... ;D ;D ;D

Shade, have you tried any the wall foot work,...if so how are your calves holding up...seams like some of the correcting of my foot is causing some of my knee pain....now muscle pain..

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on February 10, 2006, 12:12:46 PM
Hi, all! :)

Wow, barhopping, Boydy?? Have a blast, but be careful with the alcohol! It makes you feel like a superhero sometimes. ;)

Shade, I hope you enjoy your road trip! I feel your "pain" of having done too much. I'm feeling some ill effects today of overdoing with the e-stim and quad sets. It actually wasn't anymore than I normally do, but things have been weird with me lately...had a stomach virus last week that had me laid up -- literally -- for 24 hours straight. Not good for the weak quads, I know, but I had no choice. That was the sickest I've been in a LONG time. Got right back into the quad sets afterwards, and then did e-stim AND quad sets next day. All was going fine. Went to acupuncture Monday night (so I skip any exercise/e-stim because I know the acu will wear my legs out enough), and she worked on both my upper back/neck (VERY tight from stress) and my legs. OMG, I think the e-stim she used was turned up a bit too high for me. I was sooo sore for a little over two days straight! It was a real drag, but I knew she had done something good because yesterday the soreness wore off almost completely and I could feel how much looser my shouders/back/neck were, and my ITBs were *incredibly* loose. I could feel the "give" just by pressing with my fingers -- amazing! But during the 2 days of soreness I didn't do any quad sets or e-stim, so I got right back into it yesterday afternoon...and I think I should've chosen one or the other instead of doing both. :( My thighs were SO sore last night...and my knees got a little warm (which hasn't happened in over a month!). My acupuncturist told me before, though, that warmth after e-stim isn't necessarily a bad thing -- it just means increased circulation. But to me warmth means inflammation, so I panic. My knees don't look swollen today at all, though. In fact they feel fine, but my legs still feels a little...odd. Sort of like I didn't get enough rest, you know what I mean? And my calves are SO tight right now. That's always an indication that it was a little too much for me. Oh, well. She'll take care of the calf tightness at my appointment on Tuesday morning, and I'm going to skip exercise/e-stim today. If all is well tomorrow, I'll do one or the other -- not both.

Truthfully, I think I've been turning the e-stim up too high. I keep cranking it up, because I really don't seem to get any obvious reaction from anything other than my left VMO. Does anyone know if that's okay? I keep feeling like I need to turn it up to see if I can get the other muscles twitching because it seems like they're not getting a "workout." But I guess now I see that the other muscles WERE getting QUITE the workout, whether it looked like it or not! Such a confusing machine, that e-stim!

On another note, my left quad has become a breeze to contract -- it's quite impressive! LOL My right is getting easier, but still has a long way to go. It has been my weaker quad for well over a decade now, so I know I'm going to have to struggle with that one for quite awhile longer.


Heather, it's nice to see you posting here. :) But I'm so sorry to hear about your recent ITB flareup. I was wincing at your description of your myofascial release -- yikes! But at least you know that it's being treated correctly -- pain is, unfortunately, part of the process, as you know all too well. I hope it loosens up for you quickly. For me, it's usually two weeks of working on it to get me over the hump...and then things start getting better and better the more I work on it. This must be so frustrating for you after all you've gone through. Is this the opposite leg from the one you had the ITB release on?

Talk to you later, girls! (How are you doing, Hilde? Have you recovered from the dancing?)
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on February 10, 2006, 09:12:38 PM
HI Karen, yes I have recovered somewhat..feel like I'm on backwards slide these days..was so strong prior to the jump and now, everything is just so hard..my posterior tibialis is still sore, my itbs tight, but not bad..quads are coming back big time..little slow on the vmo, but at least I can see the muscle moving..can lift alot more than I can control..frustrating..tried both the bike and arch trainer and that is ok...I've just decided it JUST hurts getting old..that's it..the only reason..so life just goes on...sooner or later I'll feel better if not younger....maybe I need another baby..my knees have never felt better than during pregnacy..but I think maybe that's  a bit drastic..after all I have to take care of it later and all that running is NO good on my knees..sooooooooo...have a good knee weekend and enjoy your roadtrip Shade....

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on February 12, 2006, 10:06:48 AM
Hi Girls,
not back yet, but just jumped on my girlfriends computer for a bit just to wish you all the best Shade for your trip and appointment,  I think we are all anxious about your outcome and have got everything crossed for you. Good luck,!!!!!

 Will fill you all in on my 'great trip' when I get back home tomorrow.  :D
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on February 12, 2006, 03:52:14 PM
Boydy, Heather, Hilde & Karen,

Hope everyone has a great week ahead.  I'm still fretting, but guess that is just how I am.  I sometimes wonder if I need a knee surgeon or a foot surgeon..... Guess time will tell, thanks for the well wishes. 

See you all on Thursday or Friday.....l
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on February 12, 2006, 11:17:25 PM
I forgot to say good luck, Shade!!! Why did I think your appointment wasn't for another week?? Sorry about that. I got all caught up in my own news.  :-[
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on February 14, 2006, 10:06:50 AM
Hi Girls,
I'm back home and exhausted.  I am glad to say, my knee held up very well for the whole four days. I even did all the driving,( 6 hour drive) with only one stop. Actually I find it better to drive then to sit with my knee bent in the passenger seat. I made sure I wore my brace every day, as we did lots of walking. I took the lift when there was lots of stairs, ( the cities are very wheelchair friendly and are contious of having lifts everywhere where there are stairs.) So makes it easier for us bad knee people who hate stairs !
The musical was FANTASTIC and the nightlife after was just as good. Hilde, we had LOTS of Margaritas, it was really great, although my girlfriends had 7 and were a bit sick the next day, I only had 4 and some champagne and was fine the next day, ( with the help of 2 panadol) but we even manged to have some dancing, I was a lot more sedate then my friends,( in the dancing department,) but made up for it in the singing department,  :P
So far... so good... managed to do my quad sets and stretches every night. ( I'm sure that helps ) is a bit tight today, but I will go to the gym tomorrow and try to loosen things up a bit and stay on top of things. If I mange to get through the next few days without consequences (swelling) I will be happy, because we really did do a lot of things that I haven't done for a long time.
By the way I have just read a post in another section and Shade has arrived at her destination safely and is tucked up in her hotel. Appointment is tomorrow. Will keep you posted if I hear anymore. 
HAPPY VALINTINES DAY GIRLS     :-*
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on February 14, 2006, 04:47:28 PM
Happy Valentines Day..well no new is good new I guess..I haven't had any flareup as I have not had any pt these last days...have my last pt of 12 tomorrow, but I'm not seing my doc until next Tuesday..Molly and Mary, my tag team pts think I need at least 8-10 more, and I think I agree..front of my calf is still sore, but then again I haven' done anything..Boydy, glad you had an awesome time..did you take pictures.... would love to see some..anyway..taking a little trip myself on Friday..going to a babyshower inTexas..gonna travel in style as I traded limo rides to and from the airport for some costumes..meeting up with my sister in Denver and then on to Dallas...my brother and his wife(the pregnant one) are picking us up there and then another 2 hours by car..we'll see how my knee holds up..have to agree with Boydy, better to drive yourself, but no can do..anyway good luck to Shade and hi to Karen and Heather and Jillo....
Happy hearts to all

Hilde ;D
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on February 16, 2006, 03:42:03 PM
Hi gang.....

Back home again and in one piece.  The weather was wonderful while away and the people we met were fantastic.  Had a great couple of days down south.  Looking forward to returning.  Have to get the chondral lesion fixed - doctor thinks that is what has been causing most of the pain &  lesion keeps getting irritated & has been pushing the patella to the side.  Time will tell.  I'm booked for surgery on March 29th, so not a long wait.  The lesion being fixed should no doubt create a cushion and help with the pain issues.  Will let you know how everything goes.  Oh ya, guess I won't be recumbent bike riding until after surgery as the repetitive action is not helping.  So, guess the rehab I'd been doing was all wrong both before and after surgery. 
Ah well!!  that was then and this is now......  Fresh start now with a new experienced surgeon and looking forward not backwards.

Have a great day ladies and hope the knees are doing well.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on February 16, 2006, 11:22:50 PM
Shade,
that is the best news I could have heard !!  It sounds like he has addressed the problem that you have been thinking was the culprit all along, ( the one the other surgeon was supppose to fix....... but didn't ! )   ???  Well anyone,  as you stated,  can't look back,  just look forward.   So no wonder you have been having so much trouble if the bike etc was irritating problem.  Isn't it funny, we think we are doing the minimal amount so as not to overdo things, and even that can be wrong if it is the wrong 'thing'.  No wonder so many of us are still having trouble, if we can't get the proper diagnosis in the first place from these ' so called professionals'.   It proves that you have to, be strong, & go with your 'gut insticts', as you have just done !!!  ;D  Fingers crossed for the 29th March.
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on February 18, 2006, 07:24:27 PM
Greetings from Texas, visiting my brother and his wife who are expecting a baby soon...plane ride went ok, my knee was swollen and tender after sitting in a cramped space for so long,..feeling much better today and getting ready for the babyshower and lots..lots of margaritas..will stay off the knee as much as possible , but you know, with a few margaritas onboard dancing on the tables could happen.......!!

Hilde  ;D ;D ;D
 
Shade, glad to hear something is finally happening...good luck and  keep us posted.. ;D
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on February 20, 2006, 04:56:47 AM
Hi Shade,
have just read up on your procedure, and sounds really interesting, just one question, the  graft..... is that what is supposed to take care of the lesion ?
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on February 20, 2006, 11:55:56 AM
Boydy,

Yes, the graft should take care of the lesion and if it needs more help to unload the knee he'll do the AMZ.  We'll know soon.....  Know I'll be back in an immobilizer again (Yuck), but guess I'll need my knee straight until the resurfacing has a chance to heal. 
One good thing, the ice should be all gone by then.

How have you been feeling after your marathon shopping adventure?  That foam roller has been wonderful for your ITBS - who knew something so simple would be such a great invention.   Wouldn't it be nice to own the patent for foam rollers!!! 

Have a great Monday.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on February 20, 2006, 11:07:44 PM
Hi Shade,
 What is AMZ ? Is that something he is going to try before doing a TTT ( if at all neccessary).  Is this procedure you are having key hole ? And will you be on crutches for a while ? Is an immobilizer like your brace or something different ? It will be so good if this procedure does the trick. Fingers & toes are crossed.

Yes I am still fine from my big week-end away, no side effects, ( apart from a chest infection) but that hasn't stopped me from doing my leg work everyday. And for the first time on the foam roller yesterday, I could do it without 'wincing', there wasn't many  ' painful bumps' to have to go over, so that is encouraging. While I was away I took my hand held massager, and just did the quads everynight before I went to bed. I am certain this is what is helping me stay one step ahead of that swelling. (Keeping those ITB muscles loose)  So far so good.  :D   Have a good day,  ( I suppose its night over there, its only 9am Tues here)
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on February 22, 2006, 06:17:27 PM
Wow, Shade..sounds like a big procedure..hopefulley this will be the answer....had a great time in Texas..most of the guests were doctors and pilots..my sister in law is a neurosurgeon...they have a saying.."if brainsurgery was easy, it would be called orthopedics....guess that's why we're having so many problems.. ???  anyway...I saw my doc yesterday and got another round of pt, starting Friday..he still is pushing the PKR...my oa is so bad , nothing can be done..but if I can keep it semi painfree..I guess I'm ok..didn't ice, but kept knee nice and warm..didn't do much exersizing, but tried to do some quad contracting..other than that I'm ok..no better..no worse....

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on February 22, 2006, 11:53:02 PM
Hilde,
nice to hear from you, glad you had a nice time in Texas,.....hmm Doctors and Pilots I'm betting the conversations would have been very interesting.  :P
Is that what is your main problem that is causing you pain,... the OA. And does he seem to think a PKR will relieve that pain.  ???   So is another round of PT going to help the OA ? Or does he think you have other problems as well ?  Just sux that you were doing soooo well. Hope you get back to at least that stage again soon. How are all the costumes and rehersals going for( Alladin,wasn't it ?) are you into it full swing yet ?
Shade,
I read that you are coming back home the day after your surgery, I gather you are having a Femoral Pain Block, ( have you had one before).  I just wanted to let you know that I agree with your decision about travelling while the block is working. I had one as well, and left the next day, I had to fly home on my own, I had crutches so that helped, but the funny thing was my neighbours were having a BBQ the night I got home & everyone wanted us to go but thought I wouldn't be feeling like it after my (big ordeal getting home and coming straight from the op), but I can tell you with that Pain Block I felt like Supergirl, I could have done just about anything,  ;)  (What a shame it had to wear of three days later & reality, and PAIN, set in)  So do what you need to while the block is there, but a word of caution, don't overdo it, because you may pay for it later.!!  :o
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on February 23, 2006, 05:41:24 PM
Hi girls..the pt is to strengthen the muscles around the knee..over the years I have cheated so much, they(muscles ) have atrophied too much...the stronger the muscles. the more control I have ..and then less pain..hopefully...PKR...all research I have found is no good for me...knee hardwear cannot do what I need it to do, plus most people I talked to said a full KR is just around the corner and they've had so many problems they wish they had gone for a full one right away...I think I'll try to avoid any more surgeries for now....OA pain is something I've had all my life..a "toothache" that never goes away unless I warm to the bone...I can handle that...it's the muscles pain and inside knee pain that "kills" me....I can feel how the muscles are responding and I think by summer I'll be back to my normal self..only better..Boydy...Aladdin rehearsals have not started yet, but costuming in other shows is keeping me busy..hopefully if the knee thing handycaps me, I can go into fulltime costuming.....I am also starting to look into total knee history..every little thing that happened to me..every little muscle pain etc...to see how it's connected..talking to fellow dancers to see if it rings true..according to one of the brain surgeons...many docs ignore the whole story....as in.. I fell in 1983 and split my patella ligament in two longwise....same year I also pulled my hamstring badly..according to the "brain man"..these were connected..a weak front, effects the back etc....none of my OS' has put that together..my pt agrees with the brain man..slowly but surely any little defect will effect the joints..like now..my knee troubles have traveled up to my hip and back..so again..the stronger my muscles are overall the more control I'll have...anyway..enough....I have pilates reformer at the studio..for my whole body...until later..have a good kneeday... :D

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on February 23, 2006, 10:21:12 PM
Hi Girls,
I have been watching the Olympics on the tv & am totally blown away by the skiing, at least two of these girls have had KR last year  !!!!!  I cringe when I watch them do those jumps up in the air couple of sumersaults and bang land on their feet.  :o Then that poor girl, ( who had one also) didn't land well , she was screaming in agony, I just can't believe they do it !!!  I can't believe they are capable for a start !!  :-\
Maybe I have just had bad experiences with PT, or maybe my body isn't like most people, but whenever I go to the PT, even just him trying to get me to hold my leg in extention, or seeing how much muscle tone I have by pushing against him, etc, sets my leg into a down hill spiral, and it swells for about two weeks.
I know that I have to do more to build up my muscles so my knee will strengthen, but I seem to have to do it, sooooo slowly, and PT's don't seem to get that !!! ???
I have stayed away from them for 6 weeks now and my leg has been behaving itself,(mind you I'm not pushing it too far) but slowly I have seen slight improvements. Hilde, I think there is something in what your 'Brain Man' says, I have been really surprised ( and I can't work out why this happens) but am convinced that when my knee is 'tight', all I have to do is get out the foam roller or the hand massager and work at my whole outer thigh muscles, and the instant I get up and walk the tightness is gone. ( Sometimes only lasts for a few hours ) but that must mean something !!  ::)
Gosh we could go on for ages couldn't we.  ;)
Rambled enough for one day,  hope you all have a great day.  :D
Boydy

Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on February 26, 2006, 09:26:32 PM
Hey, hey, the damn knee is acting up again..well maybe not the knee..I've been having strange pain underneath the knee, on the out side of the tibia..had strange bruising there after surgery, but doc said it was normal...I don't know..since flying to Texas last weekend and having so much to do..I haven't had that much pt..had another session on Friday and felt strong..afterwards bone pain set in..almost couldn;t stand on leg yesterday and today..more bone pain..it it definitly not muscle pain..massaged the muscles around the knee and don't feel any pain there..it's in the tibia itself..or the connection tibia , fibia knee..odd...feel it once in a while when sitting still , but mostly while standing or walking..traveled with high heels and did a lot of walking, so that could have something to do with it, but why now..and not last weekend.....

Hilde ???
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on February 26, 2006, 10:06:00 PM
OMG Hilde, HIGH HEELS,  :o  I have found that to be the biggest strain on my knee. Even a slight wedge heel sets my knee off. And ....haven't you found before that sometimes you can put your knee under some stress, and it's  sort of like a build up, sometimes it takes a few days before everything catches up and WHAM,  :-\  That bone thingy is a new one though, I'm only usd to dealing with tight muscles, hences swelling..  Never felt the bone was hurting   ???  Hope it all settles down for you soon.
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on February 27, 2006, 05:04:35 PM
Yeah, high heeels,,walked in high heels 2 weeks after surgery and it was easier...don't feel any pain while wearing them and until now haven't felt any effects...I'll check with my pt on Wednesday to see if it is connected somehow..don't know how though..usually with high heels you get apain in the back or in the feet...but you're right, sometimes it takes a while before feeling the effects of whatever you did..anyway..Disneyland on the schedule today..so we'll see how it goes...

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on February 27, 2006, 05:30:30 PM
Hilde,

OMG - I can't believe my ears..... If I even tried to wear heels I'd be in big trouble.  Not just my back, but my knees and feet.  That is if I could even stand on them anymore.

I'd be really careful wearing heels.....
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on February 27, 2006, 09:53:18 PM
Hilde,
I have to agree with Shade, I can't believe you could wear high heels two weeks after surgery, !!  :o   :o  (Of course.... I believe you,... Its just astounding,!!)  What surgery did you have again ????  Did you have a femoral Pain Block ??  Weren't you on crutches ??
  I can imagine then why you are so complexed by your regression,  as you were in better shape just after surgery. I can't remember , how long ago was your surgery ?
Hope your PT can give you some answers, let us know what he has to say.
Hope your day at Disneyland went well, lots of walking involved there.  :-\
Shade,
how are things with you ?  Have you been able to get back to your daily walks along the trail ?  When is your date for surgery ?  I read your post about your GP visit and was just as mortified as the WG's.  I'm glad your GP didn't put any doubt into your mind, and make you waver in your decision. You don't need to be confused, and it is good that you have stood your ground and found ways to overcome the obstacles that she has tried to put in front of you.(http://images.google.com.au/images?q=tbn:zsWKB4T68rkxgM:www.tallpoppy.org/graphics/cycling_pictures/bikes/tough_girl_sticker.jpg) You are a tough cookie !!  Hope your doing well.
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: jillo on February 28, 2006, 09:19:17 AM
Heels make my knee feel better, go figure.  I can climb stairs all day in heels and walk around without my kneecap feeling like it's leaving for the back of my left leg every time I put my foot down.

So, I'm going snowboarding next week!  I've only been once in the last two years but I'm hopeful I will last more than 4 runs this time. I've been keeping up with the roller, the yoga, the bike and the rolfing and I feel a lot better most of the time.  I went to see a scar tissue specialist as I definetely have scar tissue but he was baffled by my good range of motion and lack of stiffness.  I tired explaining that my range of motion front to back is fine, it's the twisting that kills me but he was  ???  so I think I need a PFS guy.  My knee is still wonky, although quite strong and functional for it's degree of crookedness.  I've been trying not to keep "testing" it, twisting it to see where it hurts and the like but it's hard!

Hopre everyone else is doing well- the Rolfing IS expensive, horribly so especially as I'm not convinced that my Rolfer is as hardcore as she needs to be for lasting results.  We shall see!  I know it's worked well for friends of mine and I'm pretty satisfied so far so I'll keep you updated!
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on February 28, 2006, 06:24:04 PM
Hey Girls, I agree with Jillo, heels makes my knee feel better..I guess it's the way you use the muscles and pressure is on the toes instead of heels..and wow, snowboarding..better than skiing, but be careful nonetheless....anyway...,Boydy..I had an LR, patella debridement and a "mini" microfracture in the troch groove, removal of bonespur and general cleanup..I asked for a femoral block, but my anesthesiologist said it would be easier to go general instead, I also wanted to be awake so I asked for a spinal, but he claimed I would get a migrain, and because of my musclecontrol, I might overule the spinal..anyway all was great and until now I haven't had much problems as you guys know...was only on crutches for 2 days.......I think part of it is due top  delayed reaction..they cut an aweful lot of tissue and bone, so I think now the nerves are finallly coming back...also the weather is paying a big part in how my knee reacts..all the rain and cold is no good..I also went off the glucosamnine for a while and I think that is a really big reason..I don't care what the research says..so I'm back on 2000mg glucosamine a day and I'll see how I feel in a few days when it finally hits my system...Shade your surgery is coming up, are there any things you should or should not do to prepare?

Hilde
(http://longbeachballet.com/graphics/summer/kids/Gabby.jpg)

another way to use the roller....!!
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on February 28, 2006, 10:15:01 PM
Jillo,
 well , now I've learnt something, I just thought anyone who had knee surgery would be the same, ( High Heels I'm talking about),  hmm that is remarkable, that just goes to show you , even though we all may sound to have very similiar things wrong with us,... really our issues are probably very different !!  I'll echo the girls warning, snow boarding sounds sooo exciting, but be very careful, ( I can imagine there would be some 'twisting' invovled ).  Have fun   ;D
Hilde,
thanks for the info, wow, that is very good recovery for a LR, I have never heard of one so quick, ( 2 days crutches & two weeks on heels ' I'm talking about here   ;) )  you didn't say how long ago you had your op ?   Yep the pic is exactly like my roller, ( my hubby has been using it everyday also to stretch his back,  so it lives on our loungeroom floor permanantly  ::)   It is the best thing that I have ever bought, doesn't even hurt me to use it now,  :D    But your little pic there is a bit of a pipe dream for me,  :o   Not quite up to that standard yet !!  ;)
Have a good day ladies, it has been pouring here, for the last few days, we haven't had rain in months, so we are loving the change. ( Cooled things down a bit thank goodness), we were having a  horrible heat wave !!
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on March 01, 2006, 01:44:07 AM
Hilde,

A femoral block is a nerve block that is placed at the top of the thigh.  It is put in while you are under the GA  - near the end of your surgery.  It is used to aid the recovery process.  For example mine lasted approx two days after surgery, so got me through the worst of the pain without having to take any oral meds.  It worked really well for me and I'd definately recommend it to anyone having knee surgery.
I'm definately asking to have one (if available) for my upcoming surgery. 

Have a good evening everyone.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on March 01, 2006, 08:47:56 PM
Shade, I don't remember exactly why doc told me no femoral block, but I think he said I wouldn't need it..well....I really didn't..had hardly any pain..until resently...why wouldn't there be one available to you..don't most doc offer them or is this a superspecial one..what are they actually going to do to you..?? Boydy..Monday was 10 weeks post op..so I guess I'm doing remarkably well..considering..cancelled my pt today as I had to take my daughter for a pre kindergarten check up..3 shot, fingerstick and tb test..poor thing..had to go for ice cream afterwards..regarding the roller..a wonderful thing...can't do the splits quite like that anymore, close on my good leg, but only on a really good day..otherwise don't even attempt it on the right...feeling much better today..glucosamine is kicking back in and all joints feel smooth and nice..helps that the weather is nice too..otherwise I'm hopping along as usual, no better no worse..think maybe I'll join a gym so I can go swimming and use the archtrainer on a regular basis..too many calories in and not enough burn out....and it just gets harder and harder to stay in my jeans comfortably...Jillo..no high jumps..

Have a great knee day ya'll

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on March 01, 2006, 11:05:09 PM
Hilde,
WOW, only 10 weeks post op, you are doing famously, well done,!! I had no idea you had surgery that short time ago. You must be very pleased with your recovery then. ( Apart from lately, but I'm sure with your determination and healing , you will get past this little set back in no time.)  :D
Shade,
haven't heard from you about the walking trail or surgery dates,? (2 posts back), just wondering how things are, ? Any change for the better... or worse.... or are you just going to wait it out until the surgery, and not push the walking ? 
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: jillo on March 02, 2006, 06:42:38 AM
Boydy, when I stand with my knee bent and press my heel to the ground I get pressure then evantually pain in the knee.  If I lift the heel the pressure is off my knee and no pain.  The feeling of pulling makes me 90% sure the problem is related to scarring at the side and lower edge and back of my knee- all the places I have lumps and bumps.  When I stand I tend to lock that knee instead of using the leg muscles to stand upright because it feels more comfortable.

Without even noticing it I've been walking on my toes since my first surgery, which has not been good for my lower back at all!  Stretching helps but it's not really a lasting solution right now.  Hopefully as I build up more strength in the VMO the tight tissue will stretch more and the kneecap will stay centered when I flex my knee with my foot flat on the floor.  That's the plan anyway  ;D
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on March 02, 2006, 09:40:48 AM
Boydy,

Hi there, we've been in a deep freeze here.  It's been - 22 C or - 7.6 Fahrenheit for awhile now and I've not been doing much walking at home or at the gym.  You know that achy-type pain you get from cold weather.  Well, the weather will hopefully change soon and I'll be back on the trail again.  We have not been to the gym of late since it's been so busy.  Think everyone is trying to lose weight this time of year because the lineups have been daunting......
I'm patiently awaiting the surgery at the end of March.  I've got everything ready like the cryocuff, plastic stool, snap pants and crutches etc... 
So, that's how things have been going here.  How about you??

Hilde,

You are definately doing well just 10 weeks out.....  You have been having a rough time of late, but probably like you said before it's from overdoing.  Hope that things settle down again.

Have a great day.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on March 02, 2006, 05:50:55 PM
Hey.. hey...Jillo..if you're walking on your toes you need to stretch the achilles and hamstrings..I also like to stand without using my muscles..I kind of hang on my hyperextended knees..bad one is now catching up to good one..at minus 3 and 4..in fact my pt is recommedning that I stand one my bad leg more than good leg to catch up..my doc was a bit concerned because I have no cartlidge whatsoever under the kneecap, so at first I had alot of pain when stretching backwards..now it's fine..Shade..Yeah I definitly know the havoc cold plays on the joints..weather here is beautiful today..will reach about  70F...so about 20C..sunny and clear and my joints just love that...and your probably right about overdoing it..then again it's the old car story..something fixed will jog something old and other things just break.same old story.....same old..just old..that's the problem.....while I was in Texas, saw some old pictures of myself at about 7 years old...I'm standing with my feet paralelle forward...my right knee is facing left knee..so totally twisted inward...my doc says that's a common problem with girsl with long limber limbs...see that in a few of my ballerinas and watch them closely ..especially since we train them to turn everything outwards..so my knees can rotate futher than most..not good..but that's that..anyway on to pilates ..hopefully by getting stronger overall, I'll escape further problems..cheers

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: jillo on March 03, 2006, 05:29:32 AM
Nope my Achilles and hamstring are fine.  Looser than ever and much looser than the other leg which is 100% fine.  The ITB is doing very well now too, basically normal most of the time.  The pressure/pain and the front and bottom of the joint is definetely related to mal-tracking from the surgery and occurs within normal range of motion and normal muscle tensions (no spasms, no holding tension).  No-one can figure out how or why of course!
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on March 03, 2006, 05:50:53 PM
Pressure pain in the bottem of the joint...have that too..feels like it's in the bone itself..sometimes pain goes diagonal from lateral  bottom, to medial upper..strange..don't know what triggers it or what to do to avoid it......odd odd..

hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on March 04, 2006, 01:20:09 AM
Hi Ladies,

I get that pain at the joint line also.  Mine is located just lateral of patella and feels like someone is at that spot with a little mining pick..... chipping away.  It's like a gnawing-type bone pain or pressure pain.  Think this pressure causes the pain when sitting with legs down.  Footstool helps relieve this pressure by getting the legs elevated, especially while on the PC.

Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on March 05, 2006, 03:10:34 AM
Yeah that's it..bone chiping mining pick..good analogy..I always put my feet up while on the computer...just like ahving my feet on the table..never though about it making the pain going waay, but you're right..it's not there when elevated...what causes it though....know my bone is really worn there so it is definitly bone pain...and besides putting leg up, nothing makes it go away...when you go in for surgery are you going to mention all your(our) troubles ....maybe these docs have an other solution  for you..us..

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on March 05, 2006, 06:06:49 AM
Hi Girls,
things are going ok for me, but wish me luck, have been asked to come in for a day's work at the kindy where I used to work... tomorrow. So I will wear my brace and try not to lift any of the kids up or the heavy equipment, I am anxious to see how I go , because if it goes well it will give me encouragement to get back out into the work force. ( Fingers crossed )(http://images.google.com.au/images?q=tbn:MafDs6t0Z_49nM:http://www.tdsb.on.ca/parents/kindergarten_information/images/kindertitle.gif)
Shade , I don't know what cold weather is like at the moment, we have had such heat... for so long now, Autum has begun so it should start cooling off any day now !! End of March is only around the corner for your surgery, that is something hopeful for you  :D
Hope everyone else is having a painfree day  ;D
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on March 05, 2006, 09:38:15 AM
Boydy,

That sounds like such fun working at a kindergarten....

Hope you enjoy your days outing and know the kids will have fun.  Hopefully your leg will not mind the change in routine. 
Yes, I'm looking forward to having my knee issues addressed.  Not a long wait now.

Have a good knee day everyone.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on March 05, 2006, 07:42:55 PM
Boydy, good luck ...hope all goes well..I just love working with kids..I woulde go crazy without them....Shade....the wait is almost over..and yes I'm having a good knee day today....will just do laundry and clean house today so hopefully it'll stay that way too...anyone heard from Karen lately...

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on March 05, 2006, 08:15:40 PM
Hilde,

It is good to hear that you are having a good knee day.  I did something incredibly stupid.  Decided to brace my ankle and only wear a brace sock and see if I could walk okay.  Well did not make it very far for my trail walk and had a very hard time getting back home.  Won't try that stunt again.  Just wanted to see if it is my knee or my feet or both that is causing more problems..... Guess it's definately the knee....
Icing has helped.
Have a good day everyone. 

If you are around Karen - hi there, we think of you often.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on March 06, 2006, 05:00:25 PM
Shade, when you have surgery ..ask the doc to take a look at the tendons too....see if there is any tears or not...I feel like stuff is slowly ripping, because of the strain the knee takes from bone damage.....I had a bone spur that was slowly eating off the quad tendon..obvisously this didn't happen over night, but nobody even considered it before doc opened the knee....I'm feeling a strain in the posterior tibialis and pereoneal ,,this probably from the foot..and as you checked out..yours is from the knee...but they're probably connected..so can you ask..and if you hadn't tried your stupid stunt..would you have known..??  just gotta try different things..

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on March 06, 2006, 07:28:16 PM
Hilde,

Thanks for that idea...... 
I'm having an open procedure so he'll be checking everything while in there.   
I'm looking forward to being on the other side of surgery. 

Hope you are still doing well.  Catch you later.  ~Shade

Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on March 06, 2006, 11:29:15 PM
oohh Shade,
thats, sad news about your trail walk.  :o  I understand that you have to try these things for your own piece of mind though, as Hilde said, if you hadn't tried it you wouldn't have known for sure. 
I was just wondering how much you use your brace, do you wear it around the house all day or just when you go out to shops and  walking trail etc.  And also, ( I know you haven't had your brace for that long, are you worse now then before the' brace days'.)? eg. Could you walk your trail at all before you got the brace. ? Just wondering, as  I could not do half the things I do without wearing it.   And I have good news.... (so far)... my workday at kindy yesterday went very well. I wore the brace all day, and  actually I think my knee is less swollen today then the day before I went to work. ..... Not sure what to make of that  :-\  Does that mean it really liked me wearing the brace all day ( haven't done that before )  or does that mean.....  My  mind was off my knee for the day and therefore behaved itself.... ( not sure I can believe that one,.... but you know,..... people say these things to you,..... all that in your head business that I have refused to believe).  I was a bit spoilt and had  lots of parent help and didn't even have to put the 20 little beds out ( one of the mums did that for me) that is what I was dreading as that is what used to make my knee hurt before the op all that lifting and carrying, and bending down . But it was still good to know I could handle a days work without repucusions. :)   Nice to be able to relax today though.  :P
Hope you all have a good day and hope your knee has settled by now Shade.
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on March 07, 2006, 01:00:16 AM
Boydy..having your mind on anything but the knee certainly helps..some...and I'm so glad everything went well...hope it'll continue...nothing better than feeling needed by someone..especially little ones....I got some great helpers to..one of the mom got me a rolling chair..just an old office chair with no back..I roll back and forth so I don't have to bend down to correct little feet..the chair only works on none carpeted area, but maybe that could work for you too....it's the bending and walking back and forth that get me..and the occational jumping when I can't help myself...today I walked too much in Disneyland..so I'm aching in the bone..no muscle pain...just in the bone and patella..oh well..

hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on March 07, 2006, 09:39:02 AM
Hilde,

That chair thing is a great idea for your situation.  It's so nice when people actually help, isn't it.  Glad that there is still some human kindness around.  Take care and rest after your expedition to Disneyland.

Boydy,

Hi there, glad to hear that everything went well at school!!  Great News!!

About the brace.  If I'm just sitting at the PC then I'll just wear the brace sock, but usually I wear the donjoy trupull wraparound brace most of the day if I'm doing any walking at all.  I can actually manage my pain levels now by wearing the brace.  It's wonderful!!  Some days the brace is on for 18 hours & always when I'm outdoors.  It is a very comfortable brace & I've had no problems with it.  This brace has made a vast difference in my life and was a great purchase.

Have a great day everyone.  ~Shade

Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on March 12, 2006, 06:14:08 PM
Hi girls, guess we've all been busy lately..nothing new to report really...well, just found out last week during pt that my heel bone, (calcaneus) on the bed leg is turned in and under..alot..which explains why my knee tips inward and why lateral damage is bigger than medial...it is however not so difficult to fix...somewhat painful but not difficult..every time I go for pt , they now bend my heel bone outwards...I'm also learning to rotate the ankle and knee differently..that is painful..after som many years of doing it wrong, my muscles are just screaming at me...especially posterius medialis...other than that things are as usual..weather has been cold again and so that makes my joint hurt..nothing new there..was just rereading my post for spelling and just realized maybe the heel thing is what make it easier for me to wear high heels...the problem only occurs when my heels hit the ground on a normal surface...so..Jillo..how's your heels...and Shade isn't it just days before your surgery...how are you doing and Boydy..read your post about mayo something massage..will try it...until later have a great knee day....

HIdle
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on March 12, 2006, 09:55:24 PM
Hilde,

Painful but interesting finding out new things about our conditions all the time.  I've been looking for heel wedges to help the hind foot valgus in my right foot.  Here is a picture showing hind foot valgus.....

(http://www.emedicine.com/orthoped/images/1653ort0540-01.jpg)

Right now the shoe tailor has made me one wedge to fit inside my shoe and it's about a 1/4 ", but it's not enough.  Tomorrow we'll go and get a 1/2" heel wedge.  It makes it much easier for me to walk, but I've still got the knee pain.  It all helps though.....

Yes, 18 days till surgery.  I'm looking forward to being on the other side......

Getting a little warmer everyday, hopefully spring is in the air.  Have a great day everyone!!  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: My Sister Sam on March 12, 2006, 10:16:33 PM
Shade - My niece's ankles are like that. My sister is of the impression that she'll need surgery? Seems like it would be brutal.

Can I ask, is a 1/2 inch wedge too deep to go inside the shoe? I know when we tried to put the 1/2 inch lift inside my shoe, the back of my heel rose too far up and rubbed when I walked. I couldn't tolerate it.  Very interesting......

Liz
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: My Sister Sam on March 12, 2006, 10:40:42 PM
That's right, Shade. I remember now that you and I talked a bit about this, and your ankles perhaps are more narrow than mine. The lift for my shoe is supposed to be 1/2 inch too, though as you know it is going to be added to the sole of my shoe... that is, of course, if I can ever get through the beaurocracy and actually get it done..... Hopefully, all the paperwork will be done this coming week.

I like the hiking shoes, by the way!

Liz
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on March 12, 2006, 11:41:19 PM
Hi Liz and Shade, my heels and ankels are not like in the picture...I can force my feet that way, but you cannot see it when I'm standing normal....my right foot is like a halfmoon shape(toes closer to the heel on the inside) when you look at it relaxed....my left is "normal" foot....so the pt has me lying on my left side, knee bent in a relaxed position, then she take my right foot and bends the heel outwards while pressing the front of the foot against a pillow on the left leg...because of my high instep an insole would not work for me...I started wearing dance sneakers while teaching as it is easier for me to stay straight in those shoes compared to ballet slippers...don't know if I've alwasy had the condition or it is something I have developed over the years..I just have to be aware of pressing my big toe on the floor while standing on that leg, then rotating the knee over the toes ..easy..but hard if you know what I mean.....they have me doing all these exersizes lying on my back and pushing toes on barre, then bending my knee and keeping inline all the time...I'm a bit wobbly , but it isn't very painful....the more I do the easier, but every week is like the first...like I have no muscle memory from time to time...anyway........think that comes from the LR though...

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on March 13, 2006, 12:02:01 AM
Hilde,

Good luck with the new exercises, hope they help.  Have a good evening.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on March 13, 2006, 05:43:26 AM
Hi Girls,
I really have to smile when I read the last few posts.   :)   I really am starting to think 'us people with hard to treat knees'   need to be some sort of magicians to try and figure out what can help our situations.......... Not only do we have to figure out why our knees hurt, we have to take into consideration our, hips, quads, calves, ankles........ and now our heels !!!  :P   I used to think most of these OS that we go to haven't got a clue what they are talking about,  but I must admit, after all the research and reading up on peoples cases in these posts.  I for one would hate to have to try and make a diagnoses on any one of our problems.  I  really think they would have to be genius's to figure it all out. :-\ ... Not saying it is hopeless or anything like that, but they see us for a half hour visit, and most of us have had this knee history going on for years and have already had so much testing and  specialists visits.  How on earth are they expected to try and pinpoint the problem in half an hour. Gosh it would take me 3 hours at least to give him a proper run down and history of my knee.  ;)        Hmmm......  this is sounding a bit negative,   not meaning to be,  just must be my mood at the moment.  Sort of given up on doctors and PT and relying on working things out for myself, everytime I go to see one they make my condition worse.  Hmmm, there I go again  ::)  Will come back and say hello when I can be more positive.  8)  Have a good day everyone.
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on March 13, 2006, 09:32:57 AM
Boydy,

It may be discouraging at times, but just have to keep trying to figure out things that might help a person feel a little better.  Bit by Bit.....

It's just a challenge - most cases are not as confusing or difficult, think most people get a diagnosis before two or three years.  It's just unfortunate that some of us fall into the cracks of the system and then we do manage to have multiple problems areas.

Have a good day!!  ~Shade

Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on March 13, 2006, 05:26:17 PM
Ever see the show.."House"...I feel like one of those patients..it's a mystery..well for some of us....actually I think I have it narrowed down now..just got to work at it now....so Boydy  just relax..you're allowed to "whine" once in a while...or scream too for that matter....but it just confirms what I've been thinking..IT'S ALL CONNECTED......and  a good doctor will be able to pinpoint the major problems in 15 minutes....and the major is what's causing the pain...the minors are the ones keeping it from heeling.....?? ???

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on March 14, 2006, 03:03:59 AM
Hi, all. :) I've been avoiding this board entirely -- no offense to any of the people here, just that I'm in the midst of one of my fed-up periods. I actually don't feel bad or anything and have been functioning okay. No swelling. But I overdid it with the massage tool to the ITBs one day and paid for it for, oh, about three days afterwards. I could barely walk by nighttime -- not pain, just incredibly worn-out, tired, "over-exercised muscles" feeling, you know what I mean? I even ran the massager lightly over my hips a few times and my hips were so sore a day or two after that -- felt like I had been doing hip exercises! That thing is dangerous. It feels like it's doing nothing, but then I pay later. However, I do think I'm onto something with that thing. It does an amazing job with loosening up the ITBs...but again, I have to be very careful not to overdo because it goes from being helpful to causing a really painful problem along the sides of my legs. Too much stimulation for those muscles apparently is no good, especially when you have two overactive little boys to take care of. Yikes. One night my husband came home and I was sitting in a chair with my legs up, and I felt like the (non)walking dead. I truly could not bring myself to get up out of that chair. It was like from the waist down I was a limp, sore noodle. LOL! Imagine if I were a single mom?!?!

Anyway, I guess this is why the acupuncture is good -- it doesn't push me over the edge. I'm only sore for a day or so and then feel a lot better. The massager -- UGH -- it can take days of suffering to feel the improvement. Not worth the suffering, so I need to seriously back off.

As ridiculous as this may seem to some (but I know the people who frequent this thread will not find it ridiculous!), I seem to be doing best with simply doing minimal quad sets (20-25 is good for now), and I actually have no intentions on increasing the quantity of those until I'm sure my ITBs are less reactive (and they are a LOT less reactive than they were even six months ago, but I do NOT want another flareup and I know it won't take all that much extra activity to set things off again). I have begun very slightly squatting to pick things up off the floor and am limiting even that to less than five times a day. The squatting doesn't hurt at all, but as we all know, many things don't hurt until two to three days later when all hell breaks loose.

The good news is, these methods (even the overuse of the massager, apparently) seem to be improving things. My acupuncturist is noticing that the muscle in my right leg (the much weaker one) seems to be growing in size. She's very happy to see that. I'm not surprised, in a way, becuase I have never had to work all that hard to tone up my legs. People used to think I did heavy-duty weight work with my legs when I used to go to the gym, when the truth was all I did was walk on the treadmill for lower body exercise (because I was afraid to do anything else because of my tricky knees! too bad I didn't REMAIN AFRAID! LOL!). My legs got really "cut up" when I started using the leg press and squat/weight machines. But boy oh boy, they didn't stay cut up for long...because right into a Lazy-Boy recliner I went for many months.  ::)

Okay, enough rambling. Just wanted to say I'm still around. I'm just trying not to focus too much on all of this. My doctor has me on valium for the stress backache I've been dealing with over the past several months (lovely to have to deal with that on top of the lower body issues -- how old am I again? 90?!?!). Next step, antidepressants. I hear they can sometimes help with chronic pain that occurs along with mild depression, and that would be me. Something is bound to stop this horrible cycle eventually, right? RIGHT?!?! ;)

Have a wonderful night, ladies. And thanks for listening!
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on March 14, 2006, 04:51:39 AM
Hey Karen,
so nice to hear from you, we have all been thinking about you, :D  and I do understand some 'time out',  sometimes it is what you need........ to just not talk about our knees, muscles etc.  It sort of just gives you a break from the whole 'issue'. I have been like that too.  Then there are other times when this sounding board is a' life saver', and I would have gone insane if I couldn't have vented my frustrations, and asked my million and one questions to ' someone who understands' !  ;D  What you have been discribing , just sums up exactly what I was saying in my last post.  The things that you and I have worked out to do ( for ourselves) that seems to be the right thing for our legs, I don't believe a PT or an OS would tell us to do that.  They just seem to think you have to put all your effort into building things up, they don't understand that  'we' can't do that !!  We can't even go close to doing that, ( I know because I have tried that way about 5 times already) because one little thing over done and we go backwards so quickly !  ???  I am at a good stage at the moment, can do some things that I haven't been able to for awhile, but am going sooooo steady,  I am so wary of overdoing something and regressing again, ( I don't think I could stand another set back) and I know if I went to see a PT or OS and he tried to get me to do some movements to see how strong my leg is, I would regress way back, (swell up for weeks and so the saga would continue my muscles would stop functioning once again). My massage therapist is also very happy with my improved muscle tone, ( I wrote about that a few posts back ) so we are at a good place at the moment, lets hope we have worked out enough for ourselves and we continue to do what we know is best for our knee & muscles,  ITB  ( which I have found out, thanks to you , just how much that helps with my knee & keeping the swelling down )   I heard those valium can be pretty good for short term, just to get you through the tough times and help you relax,      Hopefully you will feel better real soon and can do it on your own steam.  :)
Hilde,
your last sentence made very good sense, I think you hit the nail right on the head !!!
Shade,
thanks for the encouragement, I didn't mean to sound so discouraged, because after all ..... I am in a good faze at the moment, but I can still feel 'it lurking'  just at the edges and it makes me nervous.  :-\
Thanks for the chat girls, hope all is well .
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on March 14, 2006, 12:16:21 PM
You're right, Boydy, your previous post practically could've been written by me. LOL!

I'm at the point where I'm positive that having the lateral releases years ago both helped me (by sparing further articular cartilage damage or keeping it to a minimum and allowing me to function normally) and hurt me (by setting me up for all of this). I swear, the way the surgery changed the "setup" of my knees/legs a bit, along with the fact that I have miserable malalignment to begin with, is the reason why it's taking so long to sort all of this out. And I'm sure it's why there are so many other factors involved (ankles, calves, hips, ITBs). Ah, well. If I had to do it all again, I honestly think I might have the surgeries again, believe it or not. I was THAT miserable back then, and the surgeries were like "miracles" for me. I just wish I hadn't gone all gung-ho with the exercise after 10 years of having no problems because I'm quite sure I would not be posting this message right now. ;) At least now I know that I cannot push myself like that EVER AGAIN.

I totally agree that what we're doing goes against all medical advice for "knee conditions." But I think it's because these people have such tunnel vision that they don't realize that, like Hilde said, although there is one main problem, it's the little problems that it's caused that is keeping the main problem from completely healing (very well said, Hilde! :) ). That is the exact conclusion that I've come to lately, and I'm not listening to anyone else tell me the line of bull about how "you can't just keep doing exercises that are comfortable for you." I'm quite sure that's true for the average person with these types of problems, but I have discovered that it is not true for ME. I actually feel that my "knee problem" has just about completely resolved...but the other problems, especially my "iffy" ITBs, are keeping things on a shaky plateau -- the slightest thing will set everything off again (like Boydy said :) ). It very well may take another year of this self-prescribed palliative, "wimpy" treatment I'm doing here, but I think that eventually everything will sort out. It really stinks to face that, but I feel I have explored plenty of alternatives that have backfired on me, and I'm just sticking with the acupuncture because it's the only thing that makes me feel good. And when I even get the slightest of flareups (which did happen recently when I -- heaven forbid! -- tried to add a few side leg raises to the mix), the acupuncture knocks everything right back to where it was. So it's really a necessity to me -- my "crutch"!

The kicker is, I can't even do the stretches anymore. I discovered that the hamstring stretches did, in fact, cause that medial knee pain. It's finally almost completely resolved (thank goodness -- it was SO annoying!!!), and yesterday I tried doing a light hamstring stretch just as a test. I totally didn't expect to feel anything right away...figured it would take a day or so to see if it affected that area again. But BOOM! Right away I felt it. So, no thank you. You can keep your freaking stretches, too. Thankfully my hamstrings have stretched out quite a bit from all those months of stretching, so I don't have an extreme tightness problem there anymore, anyway. And I tried some calf stretches, and there's really no big tightness problem there anymore, either. So, no stretches. See? Totally against any medical advice! Who the heck tells you not to stretch??  :-\

Well, good luck to all. And I will be around from time to time to check on you all. I have an OS appointment today for my 3-month checkup. What a waste of time, but I might as well see what she has to say. Hopefully she will agree that there's been improvement in muscle tone and have something positive to say. I hope she agrees to renew the lease on the e-stim, although I only use it on a rare occasion. I was going a little crazy using that thing, and it was beginning to cause some problems so I've had to back off on that, too.  ::) This is all nuts, I tell you! LOL

Shade, how are you doing? When is your surgery? I looked back at a few of your last posts and didn't see much info about how you're feeling...
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on March 14, 2006, 12:41:13 PM
Karen,

Good luck with your appointment today. 
Agree with you guys about these knees of ours.  I'm sore, but probably due to the weather changes we've been having or I've been moving around too much.  If I just sit and do nothing at all I'm pretty pain-free, but that just isn't an option..... When I move around the lesion gets irritated and is painful so, that is where I am.  Waiting for surgery.... March 29th.
I'm also trying to get the heel wedge made for my foot and hopefully today the guy will have mine ready.  If I can get the hindfoot valgus corrected it should help my knee also. 
I'm with you Karen, we know ourselves best and have to do what feels right for us.  I've tried all the PT routines, different alternative therapy etc..... Some things work and other's don't....
Have a great day!!  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on March 14, 2006, 05:21:04 PM
Hey hey..totally against medical advice...well.....the difficulty for any doctor is that every body is different..yes most people are constructed alike, but like finger prints we are all unique....and thats why there are specialists...poor gp..who is supposed to know everything..anyway each of us that have certain problems know best...after a long time .....what works for us...so yeah , Karen and Boydy..Shade and the rest...you do what needs to be done to feel ok..I have realized over the years..what applies to most people doesn't apply to me..so again I do what I need to do...and again this board is great..cuz I get to whine and advice and feel connected to ladies like you....besides feeling sore I don't have musch pain these day, so I'm doing great, but I have finally come to the conclusion that my dancing days are OVER :(..and I am ok  ::) with that..now I just have to shopping for normal clothes..yeah!!!!!! no more leotards and tights..not that I have been wearing them lately anyway..but..shopping yeahhhh!!!!..so have have a great day..see ya..
 :) ;) :D ;D
Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on March 15, 2006, 08:40:26 AM
(http://images.google.com.au/images?q=tbn:Cs0FdxnKkgGHcM:www.coping.org/wordauthors/monkey/hugs.jpg)
Karen, Hilde & Shade,
girls, I'm just sending you all a big hug,  I feel we are all at a stale mate,  we all seem to be just marking time,  Shade waiting for her surgery and the rest of us just going from day to day, trying to accept the things we can do ( and the things we can't anymore  :( )    But, just felt the need to send a hug your way,  and say I think we all know how each other are feeling, and we still have a tough  & frustrating road ahead, but it is great to have all this support and encouragement.   Thanks girls for your friendship.  :D  It makes the tough days that much easier to get through.  :-*
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on March 15, 2006, 05:00:50 PM
THANKS...hugs are always appreciated..... :) ;) :D ;D



hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrome'
Post by: shade on July 03, 2006, 12:20:19 PM
Ladies.................

Wondered how everyone was doing?  It's been awhile since we've chatted. 

What's everyone up to this summer?  Any great vacations planned??

Had to dig back quite a few pages to find this post.  Wow, it's been awhile......  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on July 03, 2006, 07:07:17 PM
Yeah, it sure has been a while..no plans for summer...just teaching and teaching...my knee is about the same, but my vmo just wouldn't catch up and my rectus femorus took over and my hip and back is killing me....so no more dancing for a while until my brain  figurs out to use the vmo and not the rf....I can't control it and it drives me crazy....other than that was just thinking about you all cuz I saw a reservation for a knee forum in the newspaper..a live one on July 18th..it's free and I think maybe I'll go..it's for women only, well it's specialized TKR and PKR for women only...thought I gather lots of questions and go...sure couldn't hurt..gotta go...we're going to friends for some swimming as it is already 94 degrees and it's only 11 am...

hugs

hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on August 21, 2006, 11:06:32 PM
Hi, everyone!

I hope summer is going well for everyone. I just wanted to pop in to say that I'm doing SO much better. I'm almost back to the level of functioning I was at before (minus the overdoing of the exercise at the gym, that is!). In early July, I was finally able to do whatever I needed to do during the day without much of a problem -- just the occasional late-night warmth in the left or right knee. And that has almost completely disappeared, so I've started taking brief walks (about 10 minutes or so), especially on days when I haven't been very active. My quads are getting back in shape. My right leg is still pretty weak, but a LOT better than it was. My acupuncturist is pleased with my progress. And I only go for treatment once every three weeks now. Soon I'll be able to stop altogether -- thanks goodness. My wallet is really hurting from this, but the acupuncture has really been my crutch through all of this. I know EXACTLY where I'm going if I ever have a problem in the future!

I've come to the conclusion that my previous surgeries (lateral releases) left me with a vulnerability toward these types of problems (muscle and tendon injury/tightness) because of the fact that it changed the mechanics of my legs. So although I need to keep in shape and continue to exercise throughout my life, I also need to remember that I am not cut out to overdo, either. There seems to be a fine line between what I can and can't do. I think (and pray!) that I know what that is now. I will never be "adventurous" at the gym again. I'm just so thankful that I am not in pain anymore and that I can walk without having to agonize over every step. (And I'm sure my kids are thrilled about this, too -- they finally have a mother who smiles instead of growls at everyone!)

I would be interested to hear how everyone else is doing. I've really lost touch with this board. There's been a lot going on in my life, and it's been a busy summer!

:)
Karen
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on August 22, 2006, 12:30:15 AM
Karen, nice to hear you're doing so well...as for me..the knee's ok..vmo is getting better so is the quad, but my hip is still killing me...going to a doc who specializes in arthoscopics for hips tomorrow, so hopefully I'll find out more then..had an mri of the hip, but they couldn't find anything except a mass on my ovarie..fun fun ???, going for an ultrasound for that tomorrow too..other than that..no more dancing , but I got a job in LA Vegas doing costumes for a show..lot's of work, but lot's of fun too, just got back after being there for a a week with my famile, who took their vacation at the pool....111 degrees farenheit..help...anyway...good to hear you're great and keep up the good work..

Hilde ;D
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: shade on August 22, 2006, 01:38:21 AM
Karen,

Hey, your news is GREAT!!  Maybe you've got to slow down but to be without pain is FANTASTIC!!  Seems like the acupuncture has really been awesome for you.
Very happy to hear how well things have progressed with your hard work.  Take care.

Hilde,

Congrats on the LasVegas job of customes for a show, that'd be a cool job....  Sounds like Vegas was a great family time, good for you. 
Sorry about the hip and the other condition, hope you get treatment options right away.  Keep us posted on your progress.

I've been doing really well with my RL - it's getting stronger each day - so far so good. 

Have a good evening ladies.  ~Shade
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on August 27, 2006, 07:17:05 AM
Hello ladies..good news..the mass on my ovarie was nothing..normal bunch of cysts (5 small ones)....as for the hip..no answers yet..had an ultrasound of the hip yesterday and the docs were in awe over the loud clicking I produce..I got to see how the bone clicks and the tendon snap over the bone..weird..going to have an other mri next week with dye infusions..tomorrow I'm going to Vegas again..long drive, but I like the scenery..the desert is beautful and scary...luckily I have cruise control..helps the knee and the hip.....will let you know what we find, if anything after the mri next week..hope ya'll doing well...

hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: Boydy on August 28, 2006, 05:49:45 AM
Hi Girls !!   :D
I just popped on for a sqizz and was delighted to find this old post up and running again, (thanks to Shade ) and to find out that my ole comrades are doing so well !!  ;D   I also have been absent for quite some time just having some 'time out' from my 'knee', and am happy to say I am probably exactly in Karens catergory (as usual, we seem to hurt and mend at the same pace Karen). But it is wonderful to have a life back, even though I have to depend on the brace for fast walking, I haven't limped in months. And have manged to get some teachers aide work at the primary school and that sort of work doesn't agravate my knee at all.
Hilde, I am so pleased to hear your ultrasound was not too serious, those sorts of things can give you quite a scare  :o . My husband has bad hip pain, and I must admit that is a very hard thing to get under control. Good luck, ( he has found orthotics inserts in his shoes has helped a bit).  Keep up the good work girls.
Boydy
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on August 29, 2006, 06:03:18 PM
Hey girls, greetings from Lss Vegas..hot and hotter, busy as heck, but enjoying myself..was supposed to leave today, but got more costumes to do...hip and knee doing quite well, the drive was ok and the heat seams to agree with me..then again I have mostly been sitting and walking so I haven't really had time to do any more damage to myself, but next week ballet starts again, so we'll see..old habits die hard..until then, I have one ,....make that two margaritas on you...

hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: KarenS on August 30, 2006, 01:48:00 PM
Boydy -- I'm so glad to hear you're doing so much better! Yes, we do seem to heal at the same pace, don't we? ;)

Shade -- I'm happy to hear you're healing well, too! :)

Hilde -- I'm glad everything turns out okay with the ovary situation. Be careful with the ballet, though!

Take care, girls!


Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on November 29, 2006, 10:17:24 PM
Hey hey..loooooooong time since last time.....had hip surgery 2 months ago and going to pt again....dancing  in the Nutcracker again in less than 4 weeks and I'm weak weak...working mostly with costumes this days, but still dancing somewhat...knee is doing great..and the hip...well it sure takes longer than the knee..hope you all are doing great and are done with your X-mas shopping...I haven't even started...oh well....

Hilde
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrome'
Post by: shade on November 29, 2006, 11:25:41 PM
(http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:cgRYug5Y_7PYVM:http://www.torontodanceindustry.com/Images/spinning%2520ballerina.gif)

Hilde,

Good hearing from you again.....  It has been a long time for sure.  Sounds like your recovery has gone well, wow dancing again in 4 more weeks, congratulations. 
Good luck with the PT - I'm into the PT routine again also due to my LL - always something..
Wishing you all the best with The Nutcracker, sounds like fun...   
Title: Re: Only good for a week 'syndrone'
Post by: misshilde on November 30, 2006, 01:35:44 AM
LL....what is that???...othewise things are good...yes???


Hilde