The WAITING ROOM => GENERAL KNEE QUESTIONS and comments (good for new threads) => Topic started by: Sofia on March 07, 2003, 07:54:19 PM

Title: New here, couple of questions (one about a book)
Post by: Sofia on March 07, 2003, 07:54:19 PM
Hi everybody.
I'm new here and found this site just two days ago. I've been reading on these forums a lot and I think that this site is really great! :)

Well... I got a really bad pain in my knee two years ago and was diagnosed with "patellofemoral pain", I couldn't walk and ate painkillers and trained my leg for a couple of months, then my knee seemed to work just fine and I stopped training. I know I should have excercised my leg for the last two years, but I haven't. This monday the pain was back, probably because I just moved and carried heavy objects and furniture up and down three stairways...

I see that most people on this forum have had surgery, so I guess I shouldn't whine or complain. :( But I can't walk and I can't find a PT in my area, they all are totally booked and have ques (don't know how to spell it) until may! so I'm a little bit desperate and in need of people to talk to. :(

Well, to my first question:
I found a book on Amazon which I think contains some information about PFP - I know very little, my doctor didn't tell me much. Have anyone read this book? Is it any good? The book tips here on Kneeguru seems to be about surgery only...
The book: "The Knee sourcebook" by Marc Darrow. ISBN: 0737305444

Link to Amazon:

I've searched the internet and The Kneeguru for information, and it really helps. Now I understand (and remember) that my PT used to put ice on my knee after my training. That's the only thing that keeps me "going" right now...

Thank you for your answers!

Best regards
Title: Re: New here, couple of questions (one about a boo
Post by: Emily on March 08, 2003, 12:46:30 AM

    I also have patellofemoral pain :P. I am 14 years old and have been having severe pain for about 8 months now.    

     So far over the counter painkillers, physical therapy, icing, tapeing, e-stim have not helpped, however I think wearing my BREG PTO brace helps the pain a TON!!! If your PFS is caused by maltracking, malalignment, or hypermobility you may want to check it out. Drug store braces which are a lot less expensive also help somewhat as long as they have a hole cut out of the center to support the knee cap. I prefer braces that are adjustable, not just ones you pull on, because I think they support a little better.  

    I couldnt walk without crutches for about a month, and then worked my way down to only using one crutch, if you can you may want to try walking with only one crutch to avoid muscle deterioration(spelling?).    For more effective icing, try taking a plastic, stirofoam or paper cup, filkling it iwth water, freezing it, and once it is completely frozen solid cut the bottom off and put it directly on your knee, and continue to move it around the area of pain until it goes numb. It will burn a little bit but if you keep going it will go numb. Sometimes it also helps to use a heating pad after it goes numb.    

     If the pain is really bad go to a doctor, or ER and see if they can give you a prescription for stronger pain killers, I had to one night after I passed out from pain and the new pain killer makes a HUGE difference for nights I cant sleep because of pain.      

     Do you know what is causing your Patillo Femoral pain (also called chondromalacia)? A lot of times it can be caused by weak Quads, usuially a main point of doing PT is to strengthen them so that they can better support your knee cap.

     As for PT, if you have been before you should know the proper form to do different excercises. I have a post about PFS and there is a very specific excercise routine on there. It is:
Sure!  Forgive me for not knowing the names of the machines... that stuff is not my strong point.  

1)  Hamstring stretch... I just do toe touches for this, but you can also put your leg up on a table and try to touch your toes.  You should hold it for at least 15-20 seconds... preferably 30 secs.

2)  Quad... bend your leg and grab your foot behind your butt.  Push your pelvis out until you feel the front of your quad stretching.  Hold for 30 secs.  If you can't bend your knee far enough to grab it behind you, you can also do this by kneeling with 1 leg on a chair and pushing your pelvis out.

3)  IT band... I have a lot of trouble with this one.  Basically you put your hands on your hips, and kind of roll your pelvis around and to the side.  It's kinda tough to do, but when you get it you can feel a stretch on your IT band/outside of your leg.  Again, hold for 30 secs.  (If anyone has an easier IT band stretch I'd love to know about it... I hate doing this one and it doesn't seem like it's real effective)

I also do stretches for my calves, since I run right after I stretch.  

For weights I do:

1) The leg machines where you sit, and either push out on weights with your upper legs, or push in.   I try to do 4 sets of 15 each time... sometimes I get a little weak though.  These machines have really helped me a lot.

2)  Knee press - you are in a slanted, prone position and you push the weight up with your shoulders by bending your knees.  I don't do this one as often as I like... if I am having knee pain I just skip it altogether.  I don't bend my knees very far either... I know what my limits are and try not to cross them, otherwise it's pain city the next day.  It definitely helps work your quad and your glutes (I don't know about you, but any glute work is good glute work for me).  :)

3) The machine where you lay on your stomach, and
your legs pull the weight toward you as you bend your knees up.  My workout sheet calls this a "resist knee flex" if that helps, heh.  This machine is always the worst for me.  Funny enough, even though I'm pulling the weight up in a weird way, it doesn't cause me any knee pain.

Basically, I do all the machines in the gym that don't involve putting a huge amount of pressure on my knee.
The order I do stuff in is... first I stretch, then I run on an elliptical machine for about 30 mins, then I do my weights.  The elliptical really helps to loosen up and warm up my legs.  I haven't had any issues with my knees from the elliptical machine... bikes I have a problem with, as well as treadmills.

That's really about it... if I forgot something I'll add it later.  I do the stretching every day, and the weights 3 or 4 times a week.  So far it's helped quite a bit... although as I type this I am having some pain.  :)  Thanks,

     There are also a LOT of good suggestions for dealing with pain and getting it better on my post. It is under the Patillo Femoral Joint board, second page called Possible Chondromalacia.  

     I dont know about the book, I think I have read something about it on the board, you could put the name in under search on the board, but I dont remember if it is familiar from here or not  :-/.

     Hope this helps, Let me know if you have any other questions or just want to chat!!

Gook Luck!!
Title: Re: New here, couple of questions (one about a boo
Post by: Sofia on March 08, 2003, 08:58:32 PM
Hi Emily, thank you so much for your post!
It really feels better to know that others have the same problems. My PT (two years ago) recommended a knee brace I use, it's made for patellofemoral-pain only and has adjustable straps, a hole for the kneecap and a half circle cushion that holds the kneecap into place.
A picture:

Do you have something similar or how does your brace works? I totally agree with you, braces that aren't adjustable are terrible, they never fit. I found some really good ice packs at a drug store yesterday, I love them.

I'm not really sure what causes the pain, if I remember it right my doctor said that it was because I can move my legs and arms a little to much, is that what's called hypermobility? I can bend them a little more than usual to the "wrong" side, if you know what I mean? When I stretch my leg totally, it isn't totally straight, but a bit bent to the "other side".
I also think I had weak muscles and I also have wide hips... I think it was because of these three things. Could that be right? Does it make any sense? :)

Walking with one crutch is a very good tip. Thank you! I've tried it at home today, and it really is better, when I don't have to walk to much and too long. I get migraine if I use the crutches to much, because my neck and shoulders gets so tense.

Thank you so much for your post and help Emily!
Sorry if this post got long :) I'm really tired.

I hope you get better soon. Good luck to you too!

Title: Re: New here, couple of questions (one about a boo
Post by: Emily on March 09, 2003, 01:29:48 AM
     The brace I have is also made for patellofemoral pain, but it has a lot more features to help lots of idfferent problems. then click on patello femoral bracing, and it is the PTO. It sounds like what you are saying abut bending your knee the wrong way is hyper extending, which I am pretty sure is realated to hypermobility... which yes can trigger PFS. The brace I wear has hings in it that control hyperextension and do not let you bend youe knee past the normal area. Since I also have maltracking problems it has the "butress" thathas its own set of straps to tweak the knee cap ointo the right place.
     Weak quads can also play a HUGE role!! If you cant do anything else try to build your quads to help the pain!!!!! I dont know about the hips though :-/, I havent been told that they can affect one way or another, but they probally play a role in knee alignment.
     Glad the one crutch thing worked for you!! As for the migranes, I get them too from several different things, I attatches bandanas over the rubber things that your arm pit goes on so it isnt so hard on my sholders. You may also want to make them shorter or taller than your actual height, make them where ever it is comfertable!!
      PLEAASE let me know if you want to know more, I cant think of anything else that can help, but I am kinda scatterbrained today!!!

Good Luck!!!
Title: Re: New here, couple of questions (one about a boo
Post by: Sofia on March 11, 2003, 12:01:31 AM
Thank you so much Emily for your help!

I went to a doctor today and got stronger painkillers, I hope they'll help me sleep tonight. It's so hard right now, because I can't find a PT! Everybody is booked until may, I think I've called over 20 different places now, I got one appointement in 2 and a half weeks, but that's to far off.  I want to start now!

And on top of that, my other (good) knee is starting to hurt. I hope it's just tired of taking the extra weight... :(

And my school is on the other side of town, and I have to go on train AND underground/subway to get there, with lots and lots of steps on the way. My doctor prescribed for me to stay at home (I don't know what it's called in english, when you're home sick :) ) for four weeks now, so I want to start excercing and getting help as soon as possible. I don't know how I'm going to get to school afterwards... Now I'm whining :) sorry.

Wish me luck...

Title: Re: New here, couple of questions (one about a boo
Post by: Emily on March 11, 2003, 12:45:31 AM
Im so glad you got better pain management! I doont know about other people but alll strong pain killers put me to sleep! THe ojnly problem is that as soon as they wear off I wake up again from the pain :-/!  DO any of the offices you called have you on a waiting list? IF none of them do you may want to call back and have them call you if anything opens up! Limping really can make your good leg hurt!! Sucks how it works that way eh? Im glad your doctor got you a note to cut down on all that walking!!! If you ever need to talk or whine or anytihng be sure to send me a message!!