Meniscus :
8 Months post meniscus repair - - Posted by DKAL (DKAL), 25 April 2004
My meniscus was repaired last September using dissolving arrows. At the same time (operation) I simultaneously had my ankle reconstructed (same leg). I was on crutches for a few weeks and wore a weight bearing boot for my ankle. Basically, I was extremely careful for the first 2 months and was encouraged to get rid of my crutches as soon as possible. I was dilligent about doing leg raises and my doctor was pleased with my level of muscle retention. At 2 months, I got off my boot, and started dilligently increasing excercises as instructed by a PT. At 3 months, my doctor suggested I try more leg cardiio excercises, including light jogging. I did the treadmill twice, barely more than 5 minutes. But on my third attempt at running, I was able to slowly, and only moderately uncomfortably, run 2 miles outside. At four months, I went skiing. It felt really good on the groomers, and as I am an excellent skier, I pushed it. No jumps or wild moves, just fast and strong turns. But, at one point, I accidentally went onto back country, woodsy, deep powder run. I was very tense and nervous about screwing up the recovery. My legs started to get tangled up once, and feeling the pressure directed at my bad knee, I made myself fall over. The awkwardness of the fall made me extremely nervous, but lying there, I was not in pain. I stood up, and stretched my knee, and everything felt okay. I carefully, but using as much muscle as I could muster, skied out of the powder and got myself onto groomers again, where feeling okay, I pushed it again.
Afterward, my knee was incredibly sore, which my doctor warned me it would be (course, he expected i would be a thousand times more careful). I went to see him a few days later explaining that I pushed it too hard, and nervous that I messed everything up. He did some touch and feel tests and told me to be more careful and that I simply pissed it off. It's been four months since then, and though I did ski (carefully) five or six more times, I have not had the comfort to jog at all. There is some clicking at the front of my knee (repair at the back-inside) and it goes back and forth between good days (comfortable but hurts with impact - jump or aggressive motions), to bad days (painful even walking). I do ride a bike, and can feel great when doing it, but any impact more aggressive than walking seems to render it the same (or worse) than before surgery.
Last time I saw my doctor (2 months ago) he thought I have not disrupted the repair, but rather am suffering from a longer than expected response to the dissolving meniscus arrows.
I have a few questions:
1) Should I purposefully work through the pain so as to stimulate recovery (and possible dissovling of arrows) and muscle growth?
2) Has anyone experienced what I am experiencing? And has anyone worked through it to a full recovery?
3) Has anyone broken the repair and could they explain the symptoms so I can compare and determine the likelyhood that I have disrupted my repair?
Thank you very much!!!
Posted by sienna (sienna), 26 April 2004
Hi and welcome.
You are about 1-2 wks ahead of me for what sounds like the exact op. From your description it sounds like you had the medial posterior horn repaired.
You are lucky that you have been able to get back to some exercise and activity. I haven't but that is another story.
But what I can sympathise with is the pain you get on impact.
I cannot put my foot down forcefully at all and therefore can't hop,run or skip. I get the pain of impact right inside the joint and I have to be careful when placing my foot down so that I don't twist my knee either.
I have mentioned this many times to the various docs who have seen me. None of them ever gives me an answer. I did speak to my friend who does deep tissue massage and is at uni doing human movement. He seems to know his body stuff really well. He said that the pain I was getting in my joint was because degradation of tendons, ligaments and bone density. Apparently these also go weak like your muscles do when you are out of action. I dont' know how to strengthen the joint inside your knee - I will have to ask him about that.
So what do we do with this information? I don't know. I'm guessing that it is okay to jog a little each time to get your knee used to the impact. And gradually increase this sort of exercise.
As for will it ever go away? Hope so.
I dont' think (in my unprofessional opinion) that it is your dissovable arrows causing you the problems as you said that the pain is in the front of your knee not the back.
Your meniscus repair takes 3 mths to heal itself fully so that is another reason that I don't think it is the arrows.
At this point in time, unless you have the exact preop pain, your repair is fine. Mine is despite the inability to forcefully place my foot.
So what do we do? I will talk to my friend further to see what he suggets. Perhaps you could talk with your pt to see what s/he says. And when we come back we both might have some info and we can go from there.
Take care of yourself
Posted by DKAL (DKAL), 26 April 2004
Thanks for the reply and the welcome,
So, we're in the same boat, huh? Your email was (and is) very helpful. And it comes after a relatively good outing yesterday which has me hopeful. There are days when the knee is sore, and any activity makes it more sore. But, sometimes the knee is sore, and then some activity like biking with no impact, warms it up and it feels better. Yesterday was one of those days. I went for a long bike ride and then shot some baskets. For the first time, I was able to get a little hop into my jump shot and it didn't hurt. I thought this is either a really good thing, or my knee is numb and dumb from use, and I will suffer later. When home, I took several ibuprofen, iced it down, and today, it feels good. No day after suffering.. So, I'm left optimistic.
I see that I inadvertently implied that all my pain is in the front of my knee. Curiously, I do have more discomfort in the front of my knee than the back. But I do have pain in the back at the sight of the operation. And yes, you're right, I did have the medial posterior horn repaired. I wondered if the pain in the front of my knee is as a result of the swelling in the back, causing my meniscus to be fatter in the back, angling more pressure into the front. Does that make sense?
Anyway, in previous months it occurred to me that a lot of my pain could be from lack of strength supporting the impact (perhaps as you wrote of). It was obvious how much strength had atrophied, and I suspect injury or no injury, there would be a good deal of hurt involved with the pounding of a knee that is not properly supported by muscle strength. So, I spent a good while re-strengthening. I started with leg raises, doing several sets, several times a day. Just holding my leg (no weights) out in front of me, lying down, felt like a good deal of work. I gradually increased to leg presses, extensions (just at the end of the extension) and hamstring curls. I rode an exercise bike lightly from 10 minutes to 45 minutes daily, as much as I could comfortably tolerate. As my tolerance grew on the bike, I picked up the intensity, until now, I go on upwards of 2 hour bike rides. Oh, and another thing that has helped me graduate from everyday pain to bad days and good days, is a diligent effort of icing and anti-inflammatory drugs. I make sure to ice after all exercise now, and take one strong dose of ibuprofen (3 - I'm g feet tall & 193 pounds) once a day.
As good as all this sounds, I feel like I'm recovering to the point I was at prior to surgery. I am still waiting the day when I feel I'm recovering beyond that.
Still, your email and yesterdays events have me hopeful.
I have a pt appointment tomorrow (my first in several months). I'll keep you posted! 
Posted by no_fear (no_fear), 1 May 2004
i also had a meniscus repair which was 8 months ago and im still not fully recovered 
I tore mine skating and my surgeon told me to start skating fully (stairs and air tricks) after three months after surgery(i was walking after 5 weeks)
however my physio said this was not good and my knee was hurting after the skating so i stopped it and did the exersizes my physio said.
Now at 8months i can run but my physio says i shouldt just in case. in fact i can do pretty much everything including skating but i dont in fear it will screw up my knee again.
when i had a repeat mri, there was a line on a bit of the meniscus, and they couldnt tell if it was arrow stitches which were still there or a tear which was just slow recovering.
The thing i learned out of all of it is to be patient and stay off sport coz sport can really fuck up your knee if you do it too early.
Im starting to worry a bit on when my meniscus is fully going to heal, but i think it should be allright.
its good to know there is someone else who has had such a long recovery time on a meniscus as well i though something was seriously wrong with my knee
Posted by no_fear (no_fear), 1 May 2004
i forgot to say that i sometimes have clicking as well.
its not something to worry about if its not painful......i think . my sports doctor said it was the suches(stitches) doing something. Also i have scar tissue on the side of my knee which is hatrd but sometimes i can push into it and it hurts, so when i straighten my knee it clicks. Thats my main worry.
My knee was stable ages ago and still is now its just not 100% yet so i cant skate.
oh and also, if the pain is not in the place of the surgery, as you said some of it is not, then it is just kneecap pain.
anybody who had a meniscus repair whos recovery went to 8 months or more?
did it ever heal properly?
Posted by sienna (sienna), 1 May 2004
Hi guys,
I asked my os about the pain in my joint when I forcefully plantmy foot, and he said he didn't know what it was and that he hoped it would go away. fat lot of good that was. In fact, the whole appt was a huge disappointment. Basically I got no answers and the good old 'its not my call' line. Well whose call is it?!
Anyway, lets leave it at that. At least I can stand for longer periods and the pain meds work. I am going to start trying some jumping on a mini tramp. My leg feels better with the extra wall slides I do.
Now I am entering into the whole flat shoe dilema. Not easy when heels are in.
Keep in touch and lets share our stories as we go along. Hopefully one day we will all return to our previous activities.
Oh and skate boy, your meniscus should have healed itself at 3mths. I read that here on the front page. So unless your stitches didn't take, your repair should have held by now. Whereabouts is the clicking? My kneecap grinds something shocking but unless it causes great pain and loss of rom, my os is not concerned. How painful does it have to get before it is considered a concern?! Oh well.
Good knee days to us all.
Posted by DKAL (DKAL), 2 May 2004
Hi all,
What type of pain (if any) and what extent is the pain (if any) do you have bending your knee so that you're bringing your heal into your butt? A physcial therapis told me that this pain is a result of swelling in the meniscus.
My knee has felt better in the last week, but better in that it doesn't hurt right away when I use it. After a half hour of aggressive ping pong last night, the pain came back, and stayed with me throughout the night.
Am I healing? Or am I healing toward having a healthy injury?
I guess time will tell. Okay, time to add a smiley... 
Posted by sienna (sienna), 3 May 2004
I guess you have to do what the rest have been told to do....wait. Use your knee as you can then ice and rest afterwards. Otherwise how else can we build up tolerance and strength? With the ping pong, perhaps you could start a little less aggressive and play longer. then slowly after a couple of weeks, become more aggressive. That way you can build up your knee's fitness as well and not just tire it out.
Now when I do a quad stretch, heel to butt, it is okay if I do it standing. In fact, if my knee starts to feel icky, I actually do this stretch to help squish the the goo in my knee and it feels better afterwards. However, if I am sitting and I slide my heel to my butt, I can only get to about 10-15cm away from my butt before it really hurts my kneecap and I have to stop.
Weird, I know.
Do you get the pain in your joint everytime you forcefully plant your foot or only after a few steps? So far I can take about 9 jogging steps on tippy toes before I get the pain and have to stop. I feel like I could do more but find that I just can't. It is very frustrating, as I'm sure you know.
Well, I guess we jsut have to deal with what we have and try to improve it as best we can.
Take care.
Posted by DKAL (DKAL), 3 May 2004
You and I have the same deal going with quad stretches. Standing - good. Sitting, not as good. I think this is because when we are standing, we are actually pulling our leg (foot to knee) away from our meniscus as we stretch. Pressure is not as directly applied to the injured area. When we're sitting, no pressure is removed, and the stress of bending goes directly into the injured area.
I do not get pain on every forcefull plant. Playing ping pong, shooting baskets, and even a light jog starts off fine, and then the pain builds. Course, if I've recently had a heavy day, the pain is evident from the get go.
My fear is that my symptoms now resemble my symptoms prior to surgery just about exactly. Hopefully, it's just a stage toward a full heal. 
Posted by no_fear (no_fear), 4 May 2004
Yeah i realized that it should have been healed after three months, the thing was they couldnt tell whether it was a tear or some stitches which just are randomly still there.
I basically feel no pain in my knee, i can jump on tramps really high with no pain, and run and stuff, its just taking ages to fully heal, it also hurts if i stand on only that leg for a while.
as for the quad stretches, i cant get any of my knees back to my butt, so im not worries about that, i can get it as far back as my other one.
Im worries that the possible tear(if its there) doesnt have a blood supply, so cant heal.
Oh well i will just have to leave it and ice and see how it goes.
It pretty much feels normal now just not quite 100%
oh and the clicking is around the meniscus so thats another bit of a worry.
Posted by DKAL (DKAL), 4 May 2004
Skater boy,
You sound like you're healed. I wish I could do what you say you can do. I expect your pain is more likely from the atrophy of your muscle around the joint. Meaning, the muscles around your knee got weak while you were recovering, and have not fully strengthened to support the knee like it used to. It will.
Posted by no_fear (no_fear), 5 May 2004
yeah i guess it is the muscles though the pain does feel like it is in the knee, but not in the meniscus area.
Man i thought my knee problems were bad because my knee wasnt healed properly and i have some muscle pain sometimes at the bottom left of my knee, but it looks like my knee turned out lucky in the operation. Also when i do some twists when im sitting down it hurts around the meniscus, but theyre really bad twists anyway, i just hope eventually i can get back to skating properly
oh well i hope all of your knees are coming along well.
lets keep each other posted on our knees in this post.
Posted by sienna (sienna), 5 May 2004
HI guys,
How's it going?
You know, lately, I feel like I could just get up and do sport and everything but then I realise that I just can't. Do you have that?
My knee has been a bit stiff and sore lately. I think it is due to a weather change and I also think it is due to my not doing hydro for the last 3 wks. My membership ran out so I haven't been but I think I need to go just to keep my knee moving in a supported environment.
I am going to try riding a real bike soon. Just have to pump up the tyres. Hopefully I can and this will help to strengthen my quads. And then , maybe, the pain in my joint when I lant my foot forcefully might start to go away.
Hey on the bright side, I wore jeans to dinner tonight just to see how I would go. I survived. 
However, I now have the pant leg rolled up over my knee. It was starting to heat and feel sore. But at least I got to wear the pants in public with both pant legs down. That's a start.
Good knee days to us all.
Posted by gillian (gillian), 8 May 2004
I had a meniscal repair using the dissolvable darts in the posterior horn almost a year ago and it is still much worse than it was before surgery. I have already had one other surgery and I'm looking at another one to fix the meniscus again.
When the original OS did the surgery he put the dart through the joint capsule, which he told me was a good thing to do as it made it stronger. It was incredibly painful from the beginning and my knee felt all dragged to one side where the dart was not allowing me to bend or twist it at all (6 weeks before I could bend past 90 degrees!). I had a lot of nerve pain too and loss of senstaion in my leg at times. Only in the last month have I been able to twist my calf at all (even non-weight bearing) without serious pain and instability. I think the darts take a LOT longer to disslove than you are told.
I had such bad tracking problems after the surgery that I have really damaged my patella too. B/c the muscles in the back of my leg were shutting down I was tipping forward and overstressed the front of the knee, plus my joint was all out of whack and uneven. If you think about it you have a big thing in your knee joint throwing the balance off so if you do too much it stresses the rest of the joint.
According to my new OS the original OS should never have put the arrow through the joint capsule. Also it should have dissolved by now but probably hasn't. I can still feel a lump at the surgery site and get pain and weakness when I bend the leg (and tremendous pressure under the kneecap). It's improved a lot lately with a massage person working on the scar tissue so once that plateaus I am going to get another MRI and go from there.
Good luck with yours, I think you will have to wait a few more months for the dart to dissolve fully to see what you really have. I found that swimming helped and walking up a lot of shallow stairs.
Posted by DKAL (DKAL), 2 July 2004
Hey all,
Update: I'm now 10 & 1/2 months post-op. There has been some improvement, in that I seem to wake up more often with no pain. I may get sore and achy during the day, but one day's worth of soreness doesn't seem to drag on for three day anymore. I did see my doctor about 6 weeks ago, and he felt it was too premature to consider the surgery a failure. He also suggested an MRI wouldn't show much, as the repair would resemble a tear, healing or not. So, I've been cycling a lot, icing when I can, and dealing with the pain. My plan is to wait until it's been one year, and then consider an arthoscopic probe. The good news is, I do see improvement. THe bad news is, I still feel like I'm improving to the state I was in before the surgery.
Good luck all!
- David
Posted by camper (camper), 5 July 2004
This has been really helpful. I am approaching month 8 following a medial meniscal repair, and it sounds like we're all at about the same place.
I have most of my ROM back. My OS made it sound like I'd be running a marathon by now and running around the block is still uncomfortable. I know what you mean about not being able to put your foot down forcefully. I have found that doing alot of walking and biking has been helpful-but it is still a problem. It has been really difficult to know how far to push, my OS is pretty agressive but my PT is emphatic about not doing anything that hurts (she's not referring to muscle pain). Although I haven't seen either of them in months. I read on another post that someone's OS had told them to push through the discomfort, I tried that and wasn't very successful.
Knee cap pain has been bothersome, anybody know what exactly is causing that, I initially thought it was quad weakness, as my quad has gotten stronger it has improved, but is still an issue (maybe I just have to strengthen it some more).
I recently started practicing with my soccer team and it has surprisingly felt pretty good. I am feeling very cautious though. I have an appointment for a knee brace this week (I also have a partially torn acl, which my OS insists is very stable, but I'm concerned that my knee will buckle and I'll retear the meniscus). I think the brace is as much for my head as for my knee....
Posted by sienna (sienna), 5 July 2004
Hi there,
I, too, am approaching the 10 mth mark and cannot run. I can jog about 6 steps on the front of my foot but that is it. I still cannot forcefully plant my foot. I have been strengthening my quad and it is getting back to a more normal size but that hasn't helped with the pain. I also have the kneecap pain and grinding. My knee also locks in a straight position if I push too hard. My os is at a loss for all of this and keeps telling me it takes time.
I was also lead to believe that I would be bak to sport by now but I am nowhere near even dreaming about it. I've been told that it will probably be another 12mths or so.
Well if I had've known this pre op I may have reconsidered, particularly given the chronic pain my nerve damage has me in (thankfully I have strong meds to help that).
So what is it that makes a repair recovery take so long? That is the million dollar question. And why do we have the same probs in common despite all being so different and having been diligent about pt etc?
At least now I can walk my dogs but if they pull too much it is still painful. I have found swimming very helpful but it is too cold to go now that we are heading into winter.
Anyway, if anyone has any more insight into my million dollar questions, feel free to post.
Ps A brace has been suggested to me as well. Mostly for peace of mind, I think. So I think it would be good for you to get your confidence back.
As for the mri, the tear/repair would show up the same as it did preop. I asked my os the same thing 2 wks ago.
Posted by gillian (gillian), 11 July 2004
sienna, i am exactly where you are expect that my knee has been locking up on me for the past few months on random occasions. All I can say is Ouch! That is not fun. Prior to that I was starting to be able to run and to put weight on my heel, now no way! Back to walking on my toe again and of course the rest of the joint now hurts. Very irritating.
My quad has gone away, this time pretty much completely, my leg is so undermuscled it's gross-looking. I walk a lot and swim but that's really all I can do.
At this point I don't know what to do 
I'm moving in 2 months and want to wait till I move so I can have a surgeon long-term... I think that's a better plan but I don't want to injure my knee by walking around on it in the meantime...
Are there any studies on the safety and side-effects of these darts? How long have they been in use anyway? I'm starting to feel like a guinea pig here.
Posted by DKAL (DKAL), 12 July 2004
Hey all,
Yes, there's a lot of studies online about the meniscus arrow. Here's one I've bookmarked. Also, I've found postings online about patients with arrows taking more than a year to fully dissolve.
Good luck!
Oh, and for those of you worrying about muscle loss, have you tried bicycling? I either ride outside or at the gym all the time. It has done wonders for my strength maintenance. I often ice up after and take ibuprofen, but it's worth it.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0918/is_1_29/ai_70634383
Posted by gillian (gillian), 12 July 2004
thanks but I can't bicycle more than a few times a week at no resistance for about 10 minutes. My knee is REALLY messed up, the whole meniscal line (is that a term? the middle bit around the joint) screams at me if I do more than that. It is a million times worse than it was before surgery, when I could ride a bike, hike and even snowboard a bit on it. Riding a real bike over unlevel ground is a dream at this point. It hurts bad enough to just walk short distances or just to bend and unbend the leg.
I have waited a year for this thing to dissolve as of 4 weeks ago. I am strongly considering getting it taken out and to hell with the repair. I'm pretty sure the locking up indicates that that's failed anyway.
I've seen 3 surgeons about it and they've all dismissed the problems, saying that it's because my quad is so weak. My quad is weak b/c I cannot bear weight on the knee, not the other way around. My original surgeon pretty much refused to discuss it once I said that surgery had made me worse. My PT sent me to her preferred surgeon and he was the only one who seemed to have some experience with problems and arrows but I don't have insurance that covers him so I'm kind of stuck. I'm really not sure what to do right now.
Thanks for the reference, I'll track down those other articles too.
Posted by DKAL (DKAL), 12 July 2004
Good luck Gillian. As for the insurance, wouldn't your old insurance still work since the issue stems from the original incident?
Posted by gillian (gillian), 12 July 2004
I went to graduate school after the surgery and have a different (and much inferior) insurance since then. That runs out in two months at which point I have to get a job or buy private, but no matter what I do their insurance most likely won't cover pre-existing conditions for a year. I'ts kind of a pita.
I carried COBRA for a while but it was very expensive (around $400/month) and it wasn't offered for long enough to bridge the gap anyway so I dropped it.
If I'd known more about the typical recovery from this surgery I would not have had it done at that time of my life. I didn't know I'd be in a brace and was told I'd probably be back to full activity in 6 weeks.
Posted by sienna (sienna), 13 July 2004
Hi guys,
Sorry to hear teh your knee is so messed up, Gillian. I, too, sometimes regret the surgery, given now that I have nerve damage that requires expensive drugs just to get me up and around each day. Spewing.
I did some reading about the crunching under my knee cap. The info said that muscle strength imbalance can cause your patella to sit incorrectly and then cause grinding. At first, this is painless but if left alone can worsen and cause permanent damage. Mine grinds like an old rusty joint everytime I bend or straighten or carefully twist my knee (non weight bearing). So I am pretty sure this is my prob because I can feel that my quads are uneven in strength and my hammies are not fully back yet either.
And my os is at a loss for my probs! Well for someone who has such a good rep, he doesn't seem to know too much or want to find out.
I am looking at cycling, still have to pump up the tyre. Will probably do that this arvo.
As for the dissolvable darts, I have no idea if my os used them or not.
Well, I'm so tired I can hardly keep my eyes open so I am off to do stuff then to nap.
Hope you are all having a good knee day.
Take care.
Posted by qman (qman), 14 August 2004
I'm really glad I found this site and your messages. They have helped me a lot. I wish you all well. I just had the arthoscopic surgery for a torn right knee med. meniscus on 7/28/04. I was told so many different things by different people. I feel a little better but I really feel stiff and joint pain with clicking around the knee. I had to have the operation because I couldn't take the pain and the knee was constantly swelling. My surgeon also gave me a Doppler scan for a blood clot that was negative, Thank God!
I'm overweight and we put the surgery off for months so I could lose weight.
The reason I'm writing is because I have seen so many sites that say you are promised to be up and running in two weeks. Meanwhile, when I talked to a co-worker he was out of work for three months. The hospital volunteer told me it took her a year to fully recover. My surgeon basically told me to start physical threpy when I feel up to it in a few weeks. But, she didn't say anything else. That's what worries me. I told her I was having new pain around the joint and she said my knee looked clean. I'm a litle worried that since she was paid and gave me a prescription for therapy that this is it. There was no instructions on what to do or if I should come back for a follow up. I have a civil service job so I know they are going to put me back to work as soon as possible.
Posted by DKAL (DKAL), 14 August 2004
Sounds rough. I would first, find out if you had your meniscus shaved - or cut so that the damaged portion was removed (in which case, you should be getting better after a few weeks), or if you had your meniscus repaired with stitches or arrows (in which case, it would take anywhere from 4 to 9 months for you to start feeling healed).
If you had your meniscus cut or shaved, then I would consider the problem to be A) a bad surgery, or hopefully, B) struggling with the LACK of support muscle around the knee. If this is the case, I strongly suggest you do start Physical Therapy soon. I would work as hard as possible to keep the swelling down, and strengthen the muscle around the joint. A lot of ice, ibuprofen as needed, and rest until the swelling comes down, and then work with bungee and non-impact excercises to strengthen the muscles that have gotten so used to you favoring the other leg.
GOOD LUCK!!!
Posted by andrewc (andrewc), 15 August 2004
Can anyone tell me what they were like say two months after a meniscus repair (as I am)...
I'm walking ok but havent tried running yet! My ROM is maximum 115 degrees which has improved a lot from where I was at but at the minute my knee just doesnt seem to want to bend any further (without PAIN!)...I am quite worried about this as my leg was locked and wouldnt bend past 90 for 4 weeks b4 the op and in a locked brace at 90 for 6 weeks after the op.........Will I ever get my full ROM back?
I dont seem to have pain when walking but I am only just starting to get "some" muscles back in my leg (and its stilll weak).....
The leg is still a bit stiff in the mornings too?? Has anyone else experienced this after a repair??
My physio says I am improving wel but I seem to have hit a bit of a brick wall in my recovery with the ROM aspect 
Thanks in advance...
Posted by sienna (sienna), 29 August 2004
Hi all,
I wouldn't worry too much about your rom. As long as you keep working on it, it will come back. I didn't get full rom till about 6mths post op. Once you get past 100 degrees it gets harder to get the huge improvements in your rom. But it will come.
As for running, follow the advice given by the pt. Remember that the meniscus takes 3 mths to fully heal the repair and you need to be careful during that time. I would think that you should concentrate on building up your muscle strength before running. After all, your muscles need to be able to support your knee from the impact of running first.
Good knee days to us all.
Posted by andrewc (AndrewC), 29 August 2004
Thanks for the reply on that Sienna
Since that post my ROM has come on a lot and I am now having to measure it against the ROM of my other leg (although it's not back to pre op yet!!)
As for the quad strength...thats what I have just started working on heavily....I hope to god that being able to do stationary bike, leg weights etc helps the way my knee/leg feels sometimes as it still feels weak and is achy and stiff in the morning on most days......
How about you other meniscal repair patients!??...how was your knee in the mornings and in general for that matter after 10 weeks post op.....and for that matter how is it currently!!
All the best......
Posted by DKAL (DKAL), 29 August 2004
Hey Andrew,
I'm glad things are coming around for you. At 10 weeks, I certainly had a lot more healing to do. I don't think I started seeing consistant improvement until about 3 months. At about four months, I truly felt improvement in all areas. But, I went skiing and pushed it too hard, and I think, as a result, have hurt my chances for a fixed repair. My doctor recently agreed that at 11 months post-op, I could very well have disrupted the repair. He suggested waiting at least 2 more months, and last I talked to him, smiled confidently and said that he thought it would come around.
Biggest lesson learned: take it VERY SLOW! This is too hard a procedure to confidently say when things are good. I'd add a few months to the first day you feel strong (post 4 months) before really pushing it too hard.
Good luck!
Posted by andrewc (AndrewC), 30 August 2004
Hey DKAL
Thanks a lot for the input. It's really good to be able to talk to other people who have had the same thing done because even my physio is not THAT familiar with meniscal repair (UK...NHS) and it is very hard to get any definate facts about what to expect for the future!!.....
The worst thing I have found about the recovery from the repair is that there does not seem to be any definative way of knowing if the repair has taken!!
I remember your posting about going off piste and possibly hurting your knee...but....what makes you think it has damaged the repair??
I am desperate to be able to get back to competition motocross and football but I think I am going to wait and be really patient and focus on the gym....and building up my quads as much as possible to protect my knee (hopefully!)
I think I wil definately follow your advice about adding two months on after I first feel strong to give my leg the best chance of repair.....Thanks for that tip..
How is your knee now?? Does it feel "normal"? and does it ever get stiff nowadays??
Also, what makes you think your repair may have been damaged by the skiing??....
Any answers to these q's would be most appreciated!!
All the best...
Posted by sienna (sienna), 30 August 2004
I knew my repair had held by about 4mths post op when I could bend my knee passed the rom that used to hurt pre op. I waited another month before confidently saying that I knew the repair had held. For me, it was knowing that the pre op pain had gone.
As for my knee now, well I still take very strong pain killers for nerve pain caused by the scope. I still can't hop, jump or run on flat feet. I can tippy toe a few steps in a jogging pace but that doesn't count. I am fastly approaching the 12 mth mark and don't see any improvement on the horizon. I am hoping to get on the bike but everytime I go to fix the bike something else goes wrong with it. When summer comes, I will be back in the pool.
Other than that, I am just living with it, knowing that it was a botched up scope, and doing the best I can under the circumstances.
But I am one of the unlucky ones. You are still early post op and if rom is your only concern then you will be fine. Just take your time.
Posted by andrewc (AndrewC), 30 August 2004
Cheers for that Sienna!!
My repair is a bit trickier for me to tell if its worked because.......until I did the injury three mths ago or so my knees were both A1...then after the bucket handle tear my leg was locked so I could not straighten it fully (about 15' off full extension) and I couldnt bend it past 90 degrees....
The end result being after my 'scope I could extend my leg FULLY but as you know the ROM came a lot slower!!
At this point I'm feeling a lot less pain etc but still get the odd "rusty gate" sound when I bend or straighten it!! My physio says this is down to my quads being much weaker than they were pre-op and also muscle strength imbalance causing slight patellar maltracking....(just like you described)...All in all if I go on the gut feeling I have I think the repair has "taken" but like you say I am still early post op so I willl just have to muscle my legs up and hope for the best
Sounds really unlucky about the nerve damage you sustained...that sounds like a raw deal....
Also...sounds like you have to buy a new bike
I have only just started back on the stationary bike but from what Ive heard (and felt myself) it will hopefully do me a lot of good.....
All the best.....
Posted by sienna (sienna), 30 August 2004
Oh my bike.... I bought it off my sister for my hubby to ride. Well that was a fizzer. He rode a few times then got lazy. so after it has been sitting there for quite some time, the tyres had gone flat. So I tried to pump them up but the pump was broken. bought a new pump which works fine but now the tube valve has broken. Basically I need to buy another back tyre tube and start again. What a pain in the butt!
Anyway, I have lots of crunching going on from maltracking. I sound like a creaky gate. That's why I want to start riding. My muscles are still unbalanced after all this time.
Yeah the nerve pain sucks. Don't know if it will resolve itself but for now the neurotin works fine. Everyone says it will but I think it is caught in scar tissue and there is no way I am going under again. I'll learn to ignore it.
Apart form that, I do what I can around the house to keep mobile and busy.
Posted by sienna (sienna), 20 October 2004
Hey I just got back from an appt with a brace fitting buy who happens to be an os. He deals with the functional side of things. He was great. Listened to all my woes and could see that my kneecap was not sitting in the right spot and that it was still slightly swollen.
anyway, I got to ask him about the nerve damage and I asked him about the probs I have with forceful planting of my foot. Remember the discussions we had on this issue. Well I believe he has given me the answer. It is the nerve damage.
The nerves are telling me that my knee is stuffed even though it is structurally sound. So there it is.
I don't know if you guys are having any probs with nerves either but they can be bruised during surgery.
Good news is that if your nerves are just bruised, it will go away. For me, it will require someone to go in and free the nerve. Like that is going to happen after the last scope!
So I thought I would just share this with you.
Posted by DKAL (DKAL), 21 October 2004
That sounds sucky, Sienna. Any relief in knowing what's the matter?
I had an MRI last week, and next week, I meet with a new doctor to take a look. I suspect my repair didn't take, and so does he. What's next? I suppose it's another operation, and this time, I doubt they'll try to repair. Which means, I'll be pain free in a matter of weeks after the surgery, but it also means, half my meniscus is gone. Not sure what I think about that. Any of you have any thoughts on this?
Posted by sienna (sienna), 21 October 2004
Hi DKAL,
Yeah it is sucky and it really only confirms what I already suspected. It doesn't really make me feel any better. I'd rather have been told I was stark raving mad to think that and of course it will get better. But at least I know now, that I am not reinjuring it when it hurts. And I can work on getting passed the pain and ignoring it to some extent.
Sorry to hear that your repair didn't take. The mri wouldn't have shown it any different from when you first tore it unless it has torn further. But if you are having probs then at this point you would have to think it didn't work.
So off to surgery again. Not the words I ever want to hear. I can understand your hesitance. Weighing up the good of removal against the bad of OA. I guess it depends on your quality of life at the moment. Are you happy with a bung knee? I'm not but I am trying the brace first. and none of the professionals I saw wants to go in and free the nerve. And quite frankly, I don't think I'd let them given that they could make it worse.
So I guess you have to do some thinking about it. Go with the gut feeling. It is always right, no matter if you don't like what it says.
Did you mean removal - you typed repair? If half of your meniscus is gone then you will have to work hard at keeping your knee strong to help slow down arthritis. There is an unloader brace that can be of help as well. I would discuss this with the os.
It is really unfortunate to hear that the repair didn't take. I hope this new os can offer something better than the last.
Take care.
Posted by camper (camper), 6 November 2004
Well, I thought I would check in with all of you. How are the repairs holding up?
I am now one year post op and things are going pretty well. I slowly started back to soccer about 3-4 months ago and am now playing 2-3 times a week (wearing an acl brace). For the most part things are fine but I am noticing some discomfort with full extension. The last few degrees of extension are tight and there is some soreness along the back of the knee- any thoughts?
Hope everyone is doing well.
Posted by sienna (sienna), 7 November 2004
Hi Camper
Good to hear from you. Hey that's great that you can play some soccer. I wouldn't worry too much about the last few degrees of extension as long as you have good movement otherwise. To help get it back, sit/lie with your leg out straight and let gravity do the rest. It will come eventually.
I'm geting a knee support on Wed so that I can trty and play a little volleyball. I haven't played anything since the op, more than a year ago. Stupid nerve pain! 
But hopefully with the support I can try to override the bad messages and get on with a little activity.
Started swimming again. Finally warm enough. Though it's absolutely pouring down now. Flooding everywhere. Well I did need to water the garden.
Well I hope everyone is doing well. Don't forget to check in every now and then.
Take care.
Posted by IslandGirl (IslandGirl), 12 November 2004
Sienna, that doesn't sound very good. They botched up your knee? Now I'm getting scared
Posted by sienna (sienna), 12 November 2004
The thing you have to remember, Islandgirl, is that most of the people here have ongoing probs that have continued for quite some time. And that we are a small percentage of the population. The people who do well don't need to come back because they get better and continue on.
Of course, there are lots of people here who just want to find out what to expect. So if we are blunt it's because we usually find that many os are very complacent about surgery or they down play it because they do it day in day out. So they often don't explain things very well. But we do.
Just remember that we are a small percentage and most people are fine and recover fully.
Take care.
Ps What have you injured or what are you having done?
Posted by gillian (gillian), 15 November 2004
Unfortunately at a year and 4 months I am still much worse than I was pre-surgery. I think I am resigned to another surgery and at this point I am just hoping to get some use back. I still can't plant my foot hard or bear any weight on a bent leg and I have severe muscle atrophy in calf and thigh. At this point it hurts to swim or walk most days, and is way too un-stable to get back to any kind of sport. Lately it's taken to locking up too. Ouch.
Very frustrating. If anyone has any recommendations for really, really good knee doctors in the north west UK or London, please let me know. I have to go private so I may as well go for it on the doctor front.
Posted by DKAL (DKAL), 15 November 2004
Gillian,
Sounds to me like you still have a tear. If you find a good doctor, get it cut as opposed to repaired, you will get all your use back. The only downside I am aware of, is that with a shaved meniscus, you (we) will have a higher likelyhood of arthritis earlier in life.
Never a great option to be operated on, but it sounds better than what you're dealing with now. And, I'm in the same boat.
Good luck!
Posted by andrewc (AndrewC), 15 November 2004
Hey there DKAL
Hows the recovery going?
Am I right in thinking that you had a partial menisectomy to remove the damaged meniscus as the repair was not successful?
I would be really keen to hear how your getting on.....especially compared to before the second op (if you've had one) when you still had the repair in.
I am hopeful that my repair has taken except I am finding the recovery FAR slower than I ever could have dreamed.....(in a nightmare that is!) 
Cheers
Posted by sienna (sienna), 16 November 2004
Hi all,
Just thought I'd check in.
I got the knee support last week to try but so far haven't. I went out to volleyball with the intent of just passing the ball to a mate for 5min then stopping. Well I was late and ran out of time. Probably for the better given how sore my stupid knee is at the moment. I am on anti inflammatories at the moment, just to see if it eases my pain. So far, not yet. I am feeling quite down about the whole affair because my pain levels these last 4 wks has been steadily on the rise.
And the worst part, I don't really have any excuse for it. Only thing I can think of is walking up and down too many stairs. So I have cut them right down and avoid them at all costs.
I am worried that the nerve pain killers aren't working anymore. And I am getting side effects which can indicate that I am taking too much, even though I am not.
The heat is really bothering my knee, too, even though we are not into full summer yet.
So basically I am feeling really bummed out and don't know what to do next. Should I go back to my pain doc, who happens to be my GP, and find something else to go on? But of course that doesn't fix the prob.
Anyone with some ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Take care,
Tanya
PS I would love to walk around with an ice pack strapped to my knee but it would be a logistical nightmare.
Posted by UCIGimp (UCI Gimp), 16 November 2004
Tanya,
I found this great neoprene sleeve that holds an ice pack around your knee, is not too bulky, and lets you walk around with it. Here's the weblink http://www.mcdavidinc.com/therapy/thermal.htm
I live in the US so I don't know if they ship overseas but give it a try. It helps me when I am at work and cannot be *attached* to my polar care 500. Good luck and feel better.
Danielle
Posted by gillian (gillian), 16 November 2004
DKAL- is that what you had done? I think that's the route I'm going to have to go. I also have mal-tracking problems since the surgery so I am hoping to minimise those too.
sienna- I was having serious problems with inflammation all around my knee last year (due to the repair arrow I think) and I ended up going to a Chinese doctor who did some nifty massage and then slapped a poultice on it that took all the pain out for over a month and drastically reduced the re-occurance of swelling. It had capasicin but I couldn't figure out what else. Anyway- I don't know where you are but if you can find someone similar (he's a physical therapist/sports doc who does traditional and eastern stuff) it might help you. I went two or three itmes and had about a 75% improvement in pain and swelling. I could see my kneecap clearly for the first time in months when I got home!
Posted by sienna (sienna), 16 November 2004
Thanks so much for your responses. I try to stay positive and deal but sometimes it is just so hard.
I have heard of the cream you mentioned, Gillian, so I might give it a go.
And DKAL, thanks for your idea. I have had so much trouble getting a job that I didn't want to make a fuss of my knee but now I am having so many probs becasue of the stairs and the heat that I am now having to make the fuss and then people want to know what's wrong. Well it's none of their business and I don't want to go over the whole wc stuff again.
I only have 3 wks left so I might just cope. But the sleeve you mentioned sounds like a great idea. I have something similar here but I think it is more bulky that what you suggest. So I will have a look. I do have a good brace guy who may be able to get it for me if I can't.
Once again, thanks for your replys.
Take care,
Tanya
Posted by DKAL (DKAL), 17 November 2004
I did not use that sleeve - is that what you are asking? I haven't had any success with any products. Well, soft shoes and excercise seem to help some, but for the most part, I'm in pain all the time. It's never horrible, but at times can be extremely debilitating standing or walking. As soon as I sit down, the pain subsides. Stand up and HELLO! I cannot run or do any impact activities for more than a minute or two.
My doctors (one in Colorado, and one in California) now agree that my meniscus repair (with those Bionx (sp?) arrows) did not take.
I'm looking at another surgery, which will more than likely remove a good portion of my meniscus - something I was hoping to avoid. I have asked about trying another repair, but the impression I'm getting from my doctors is that they won't do it.
Good luck all!
Posted by sienna (sienna), 17 November 2004
Sorry, DKAL, I got you mixed up with UCI gimp.
But I hear you on the sit and its fine, but stand or move and it hurts. Mine is from nerve damage, are you sure yours is an unrepaired meniscus? I read earlier that you said you had clicking in the front of the knee not in the back where it was repaired. Did the mri show that that the repair had worsened? (a repair would look the same as the original tear so the only way to tell if it had retorn would be old symptoms resurfacing or the new 'tear' was bigger than the old one).
Have you been scheduled in for your scope or are you waiting for a bit? I would be waiting for some divine intervention. Not sure what that would be but I'd be wishing. I'd hate to have more surgery.
I hope you can get an appropriate solution for your prob soon.
On my own knee front, it felt better today despite standing up at the shops for a bit. I think it was to do with the cooler temps. And we are just getting into summer, not looking forward to that.
Take care,
Tanya
Posted by DKAL (DKAL), 17 January 2005
Hi Tanya,
How are you doing these days. We've come a long way since the first post. Course, I bet you've have come a longer way, as you're a super post kneegeek! To answer your question, first I'll tell you that I had to finally have a partial menisectomy (sp?). So, yes, the repair had worsened. It never repaired, though who knows, given my lifestyle way back when, I very well may have disrupted a repair in process. I was awake during the recent surgery (December 8th), and it was obvious there was a large tear. To make matters worse, and I'm sure it did, I played some basketball (in pain) prior to the surgery, just to see if I could handle it since I was having the surgery anyway.
I am a good 6 weeks post-op, and am not fully recovered. I will say that there's been improvement, thought it's hard to tell how much. Fact is, I'm worried. It hurts all the time, though not as bad as before. Could I be just beginning to go through it all again? I hope not.
Best to you and all of us knee misfits out there!
David
Posted by sienna (sienna), 18 January 2005
Hi David,
Yes we have come a long way.
Sorry to hear you had to have a scope but hopefully that is the end of it for you. I know you seem a bit worried at the moment but you are still early post op even for a 'minor' scope removal. But it is still another trauma to your knee so it is understandable that you would still have some discomfort. Is it from swelling or on weight bearing? I'm sure you've been a good boy with your pt. Hang in there. Maybe some anti inflammatories might be needed.
As for me, I did post about my gain of a 2in hop on the bad leg! It's in the Know each other section. It only took me 14mths to get that. I still swim and do some form of work round the house, usually gardening, each week to try to keep it happy. Not working this week but our weather is changing so that is probably the cause of my probs.
I have even manage to squat without pain. But it puts a lot of pressure on both knees so I generally avoid it. as for the nerve damage/pain, there is no change. I had to drop the dose awhile ago because of side effects so now I get some breakthrough pain in the arvo and evening.
My knee is getting stronger all the time but the pain stays the same. I just live with it.
Well its good to hear from you. Let me know how you go this time round.
Take care,
Tanya
Updated Sat Nov 21 2009
