KNEE ARTHRITIS - Bone marrow stimulation :
Microfx in France - - Posted by panbagnat (panbagnat), 7 November 2003
Hi,
Despite all the recherche that I am doing I cannot find any OS who performs the microfracture surgery !!! COuld anyone indicate me somewhere in France where I could find somebody able to check my knee condition and decide I am ready to undergo the microfx 
Thank you in advance !!!
Posted by tootall67 (tootall67), 7 November 2003
And I would like to know too!!!! But I am pretty sure that I will end up at Alpha Klinik. What I really like about Dr. Toft is his optimistic approach. The last French Dr. I saw last Friday was very negative.
Posted by panbagnat (panbagnat), 7 November 2003
Hello Tootall67,
Here are some links you should check:
http://www.kneeclinic.info/
http://www.mcmahonmed.com/wworks/CHARTS/knees/default.html
also, I have sent several emails to OSs in France (I know that perhaps it is useless but I have nothing to loose..) in order to check if there would be anyone specialized in this kind of stuff:
http://www.clinique-maussins.fr/home.htm
http://www.chu-nice.fr/site_CHU/site/afficherActiviteOffreSoins.php?menu=&idRub=38&idAct=246
http://www.cliniqueduparclyon.com/fr/02-activite/interventions/prothes-genou.htm
Posted by panbagnat (panbagnat), 10 November 2003
Hello,
I have finally got the number of a doc in France. This could help people who can not afford going abroad to get this kind of surgery. THis is what it wrote to me (if you understand french of course...):
"
Monsieur
En réponse à votre e-mail, il existe actuellement 3 techniques chirurgicales s’appliquant aux défects cartilagineux du genou.
La plus simple est le PRIDIE qui consiste dans la réalisation de forages millimétriques permettant la constitution d’un fibrocartilage dont la structure histologique et la résistance biomécanique reste inférieure au vrai cartilage.
La seconde est la MOSAIQUE PLASTIQUE. Il s’agit d’une technique de greffe autologue de cartilage prélevé sur une zone non fonctionnelle de votre genou sous forme de pastille et repositionnée à l’endroit du défects. Les qualités biomécaniques sont alors meilleures. Enfin sur des indications très restreintes et à ce jour encore sous forme expérimentale du moins en France, nous réalisons des injections de cartilages provenant de la culture de cellules souches.
Dans tous les cas les indications de ces techniques doivent être posées en fonction de critères bien définis à chaque individu.
Personnellement je pratique les 2 premières techniques et je reste à votre disposition pour tous renseignements complémentaires. Veuillez agréer cher monsieur, l’expression de mes sentiments distingués.
Dr Pierre VALLESE
Tel : 04 72 44 87 37
"
Posted by tootall67 (tootall67), 10 November 2003
Wow! Or in French (Waouhhhh!) 
I am very impressed! So do you have an appointment? I found his address doing a reverse search.
Vallese Pierre
86 blvd des Belges
69006 LYON
tel : 04 72 44 87 37
fax : 04 72 44 87 78
Posted by panbagnat (panbagnat), 13 November 2003
I do not have taken an appointment yet. I am still investigating which OS can perform this kind of surgery in France before I will make my choice.
Posted by tootall67 (tootall67), 5 December 2003
Hi! I have been convoked by the Securite Sociale for a "contre-expertise" concerning being reimbursed for Alphaklinik. I would really liked to be operated on by Dr. Toft.
But I was thinking about contacting some of the people you mentioned. Dr. Milon sounded interesting. Can you give me his phone number? Thanks.
Posted by panbagnat (panbagnat), 5 December 2003
Dr. millon: 04 72 44 88 24
Onthe other hand, I got an appointment with Dr. Jaeger (knee specialist) in Strasbourg in January and Dr. Boileau in Nice. We'll se anyway, perhaps one day I will be able to have my normal life back 
Posted by tootall67 (tootall67), 5 December 2003
Dr. Jaeger is very famous here. He operated on Zidane. What has motivated your choice of Jaeger?
Posted by panbagnat (panbagnat), 5 December 2003
I am just fed up with my knee (I already had 3 surgeries) and I really want to fix the problem: I do not care if it will cost me a lot of cash (it is not that I am rich at all...) but I want to consult the bests in order to be in the best position to have my knee fixed. During his consultaion, My current Doc. usually sees me for 5 mn, cashes 40 euros and does not seem to give a shit of my problems...
Posted by tootall67 (tootall67), 5 December 2003
I understand totally. I have had the same experience here in Strasbourg with some other doctors and in the USA. I am not rich either, but Dr. Toft really impressed me. My exam there took over an hour. He first has one doctor take a look who comes up with the first diagnostic, and then he comes in and takes a look too. They also spend time interviewing you psychologically, to see if you are capable of following instructions after surgery to make sure that it is a success.
3 operations already, wow. I have never been operated on for the knee. In fact, I never had any problems until I hit 40. And then, boom. Of course, I played basketball until then in a team. I am 2m04 and 118 kg. Not a small guy.
When is your appointment? I would really like to know how things go for you.
Posted by panbagnat (panbagnat), 5 December 2003
Monday 
r. Boileau
Dec 16th: Dr Milon
Jan 22th Dr. Jaeger (150 euros for the appointment !!!)
Posted by tootall67 (tootall67), 5 December 2003
Ok. SO on Monday, I want a progress report. I want to hear what Dr. Boileau says.
Wow, the consult of Dr. Jaeger is more expensive than Dr. Toft. The price I gave you before was with an MRI included. They had to do the MRI at ALphaklinik because the American one was not readable, according to them.
Have a good weekend.
Posted by tootall67 (tootall67), 9 December 2003
So, any news?
Posted by panbagnat (panbagnat), 9 December 2003
Dr. Boileau said that I have algodistrophy onmy right knee and, therefore, I should not have any surgery for at least the time it will disappear (8 months at least). He said that it probably came from the last surgery I had. I felt he was very professional, he took his time to ask me a lot of questions, to examine my knee properly etc. He wants me to have a blood exam in order to be sure everything is alright and I will meet him again in 6 months (I will have to do a scintigraphy also).
Anyway, next week I will be in Lyon to meet the second doc, Mr. Milon.
Posted by tootall67 (tootall67), 9 December 2003
That's interesting. It sounds like he made a good impression on you. It is not exatly the diagnostic you were expecting, was it? Sounds encouraging. I am curious to hear what Dr. Milon says. I have an appointment next week too.
Posted by panbagnat (panbagnat), 9 December 2003
It is sure it was not tha kind of diagnostic I expected, but it is true that, as he showed me on the xrays, the knee bone is full of little black spots as it supposed to be when there is an algodistrophy... Good luck for next week !
Posted by tootall67 (tootall67), 16 December 2003
So, as soon as you have a moment, I want to know how it went.
Posted by panbagnat (panbagnat), 17 December 2003
Dr. Milon had the same diagnostic than Dr. Boileau one week ago: algodistrophy. So it means I will have to wait and take it easy until it will disappear. Actually I can swim, ride my bike but not try to do too much. At the same time I have to take some pills (Calcium basically). The meeting went great, he really took his time to explain me everuthing and even called a rheumatologist in order to check my knee and to confirm the diag. It was definitively worth it to go there (even if I drove for 4 hours and 30 mn...)
When are you suppose to meet him ?
Posted by tootall67 (tootall67), 17 December 2003
Sounds great. 
I bet you are happy that 2 different doctors in 2 different cities came up with the same diagnostic.
I don't have a meeting with Dr. Milon, although now I am considering it. Tomorrow, I am seeing Dr. Jenny in Strasbourg. This is the contre-expertise that the Securite Sociale has asked for, in my quest to get some reimboursement for Alpha Klinik. I am curious to see what he says.
But from your reaction, Dr. Milon sounds like a good doctor. Depending on what happens tomorrow, I might try and get an appointment with him.
Are you still going to see Dr. Jaeger?
Posted by panbagnat (panbagnat), 17 December 2003
No I think I will cancel the appointment with Dr. Jaeger.
Posted by tootall67 (tootall67), 17 December 2003
Well, I'm happy for you. Let's keep in touch with the evolution of your knee over the next few months.
I'll let you know tomorrow about my contre-expertise.
If I decide to call Dr. Milon, can I use your name? I could say, Hi, you saw a friend of mine and he was very satisfied with your prestation.
Posted by panbagnat (panbagnat), 17 December 2003
Sure no problem !!!
Posted by tootall67 (tootall67), 18 December 2003
Hi! Well, I saw the Dr. in strasbourg today for the Securite Sociale. The answer is no for the reimbousement because this type of treatment is available in France. I got the impression that the Dr. I saw today wanted me to keep on looking in France. He can't say anything because he was doing the contre-expertise and he is not allowed to recommend what I do. So typical in France, you can't get any information on anything. However, like the last 3 Dr.s I saw in France, he also gave me the impression that I should be happy with being able to walk.
So now, I don't know what to do. Dr. Toft seems really good, I was really impressed with him, but it is ALOT of money. And nothing is guaranteed 100 %.
Do you think I should go see Dr. Milon? Do you think he does the Microfracture technique?
Posted by panbagnat (panbagnat), 19 December 2003
I definitivelly think you should meet Dr. Milon or somebody else from the "Clinique du Parc": I mean, it is worth it to spend 65 euros and have a second opinion before going on for the surgery. An other thing you should think about is that microfracture is not the only technic available, and there are other procedures who could be appropriate. I am not a doc at all, but what I want to say is that you should not only focus on the microfracture thing, but have the bigger picture in order to be sure it would be the right thing to do before going further. By the way, Dr. Milon does practice the microfracture and the OATS also I think.
Posted by tootall67 (tootall67), 19 December 2003
Thanks for your thoughts. You are absolutely right. Maybe I am not seeing the big picture.
I think I will keep on looking for the moment. I might be too focused on the microfracture technique. I am looking at the final result, and not the way of getting there.
Posted by panbagnat (panbagnat), 19 December 2003
I think you are right. I was in the same position one month ago, I absolutly wanted to undergo an other surgery who would have fix all my problems and bla bla bla. But as you said, it is better to not look at the results based on some other people experience but to be sure what would be right thig for us. Now personally I know that the only thing I have to do is to let my knee heal by itself from algodistrophy...
Good luck !!!
Posted by tootall67 (tootall67), 5 January 2004
Hello and Happy New Year! How is your knee feeling? Getting any better? Thought I would let you know that I am seeing Dr. Milon next Tuesday, Jan. 13. I'll let you know how it goes.
Posted by panbagnat (panbagnat), 8 January 2004
Happy new year to you too !!! My knee does improve a little bit, but at least it is not getting worst !!!! Good luck for your appointment next week !!!
Posted by tootall67 (tootall67), 14 January 2004
Hi. Saw Dr. Milon today. You were right, he is a good one. Took a lot of time to examine me. Hasn't decided what my problem is exactly, but he has me doing an arthroscanner for tomorrow morning and is seeing me again tomorrow afternoon! (Not many doctors would do that!) So I am still in Lyon. Thanks for telling me about this guy. By the way, I did tell him I found him through you, and he remmbers your case, but not exactly what you look like. You will have to send me a picture some time. I will send you my e-mail privately. I'll let you know on Friday what he decides. But I feel really confident.
Posted by panbagnat (panbagnat), 15 January 2004
I happy for you if you felt it was worth to go to Lyon and to be checked by Dr. Millon. I felt he was a good doc too. Paersonnaly I swim and ride my bike when I have the time for and I know I will have to be patient before feeling any improvement... Good luck !!!
Posted by tootall67 (tootall67), 19 January 2004
Hi ! Well, here is the latest news. I just want to say how lucky I am that you saw Dr. Milon and gave me his name. Dr. Milon figured out what is my problem. And remember what you said about keeping an open mind on the technique of treatment? My problem is a very badly tracking patella because of a congenital birth defect. The CT Scan they did left no room for doubt. Even I could see it. And my cartilage is fissured and a little damaged, but not destroyed. He wants to do an Elmslie to get back into place. Also clean out the debris including maybe a small piece of the meniscus that is causing some irritation. Can you believe that? All these years, all those surgeons I saw, and it comes down to a mechanical problem. Of course the operation is covered by the French health System. I will be operated on in March by Dr. Milon. So there you are. I guess we will still be corresponding as I will let you know how it is going with my knee, and you can tell me about yours.
Posted by panbagnat (panbagnat), 20 January 2004
That's good news for you. I guess you feel so much relieved now that you know exactly what the problem is !!! I hope everything will be ok for you once Dr. Milon will have performed the surgery. Personaly I have a long way to go before I will start to see any improvment. Anyway, I will have to go again in Lyon in Mai or June in order to check my knee and to get the status of the algodistrophy. I will keep you updated about it. Good luck for the future !!!!
Posted by tootall67 (tootall67), 7 March 2004
Hello! It has been a long time. I was operated on last Wednesday March 3rd by Dr. Milon in Lyon. Everything went fine. The personnel at the Clinique du Parc were very professional and very nice. Of course you know Dr. Milon, what a great guy he is.
He did 2 things. He cleaned out my knee of debris by arthroscopy and the performed an Elmslie to get my kneecap tracking the way it should. They did a fantastic job of pain management at this Clinic. I really did not feel anything until they took me off the main painkiller, which was administered by intravenous perfusion. And now, it throbs, but it is supportable. There are 2 BIG screws in my leg. The hardest thing was the drive back to Strasbourg from Lyon. My wife spent the week down there with me, what a great person. But it is a good thing we have a van, a Mazda Premacy. We set the front seat down flat, I sat on the back seat and that way my leg was straight.
Now it is a waiting game, to see what kind of results I am going to get. But Dr. Milon feels confident, and so do I. And I never would have met him if you had not found him. So a big THANK YOU. You have had a big impact on my life, whether you realize it or not.
How are you feeling? Is your knee improving? When do you see Dr. Milon again?
I would really like to meet you some time. If you ever come to Strasbourg, please do not hesitate to contact me. I sent you my e-mail by the private messages.
Keep in touch!!
Posted by panbagnat (panbagnat), 18 March 2004
Hello and first of all sorry if I did not anwser before. I am very happy to see that eveything went well for you and I wish you all the best for the recovery. I hope you will be able to run and do some sport as soon as possible.
Personnaly there is not much any improvement (just a lttle bit to be honnest). I swim 4 times a week and I am still waiting for the end of April to undergo a "scintigraphie" (I do not not the englich term) to check what's the status of my algodistrophy.
Probably I will meet with Dr. Millon by the beggining of June. He'll tell me if I will have the green light start some lighty run...
Do not thank me for the address in Lyon, it's supposed to be bad luck !!!!!!
I will keep you updated on my knee and good luck once again for the recovery !!!!
Posted by tootall67 (tootall67), 28 April 2004
Hello!! Latest update on my knee. I saw Dr. Milon yesterday in Lyon. It's exactly 941 kms roundtrip from my house. Starting to know it by heart. Anyway, he was very pleased with my knee. Says my "kine" in Strasbourg has done a great job bringing my quadriceps muscle back and stabilizing the patella. The x-ray shows that the bone is finally healing up where the screws are. The knee is apparently tracking the way it should. He has cleared me for walking, light bicycle riding and light swimming. Things are really looking good. He wants me to do an x-ray in the middle of June and send it to him by mail just to check on the screws, and figures that by the end of the summer, I should be able to do what I want. Just a question of patience. But no worries, I've waited for so long I can wait for a few more months. The main thing now is to avoid stepping in a hole and twisting my knee or something like that. 
In a year or so I will go back and he will take out the screws. The only bad thing now is that I have to go back to work on Monday!! But I am looking forward to it. I started driving this week for the first time since the operation. It is great to be mobile again.
And you, how are you doing? Is your knee coming back? Or do you think there will be more to do? What's up with you? I would really like to know.
Posted by panbagnat (panbagnat), 28 April 2004
This is great news for you, I am happy that your condition improved and that you will be able to go back to a normal life pretty soon.
Personnaly I had a "scintigraphy" on monday and the doc said that my knee is not infected but I still have algodistrophy on it (expecially on the kneecap, where it is the more painfull). Anyway I will meet with my surgeon the 10th and I have an appointment with Dr. Millon the 10th of June.
I will see what they think about it. I still swim 4 times a week + I bycicle during the week-end. However, there have not been more improvment and I cannot wait the day I will feel my knee doing better...
Good luck for the future !!!
Posted by tootall67 (tootall67), 28 April 2004
Sorry to hear that you knee still hurts. But somehow, I believe that with Dr. Milon involved, you are going to get better in the end. Just looks like it might take a little bit longer than you thought. Anyway, drop me a note after you see Dr. Milon.
Posted by tootall67 (tootall67), 18 June 2004
Hi. So how is your knee? I am doing well, I am in the final stages of rebuilding my quadriceps back up. The knee has healed up fine, just got to get that muscle strength back. I want to see my first film since the operation, Kill Bill 2, and was able to sit through it without any discomfort. That is a big change already, as before, when I sat through The Return of the King, I was in big pain at the end, the knee all swollen.
Weren't you supposed to go back and see Dr. Milon? Hope things are working out for you.
Regards,
Posted by panbagnat (panbagnat), 28 June 2004
Hi,
great news that your knee condition improves, I keep my fingers crossed for you.
I met with Dr Milon the 10th of June indeed. He said that my knee made some improvement regarding the algodistrophy, but it is not over. I will have to continue the medication, to keep swimming and riding my bike, and I will get some Calcium shot as well.
At the end of September I will try to start running and depending on the results will meet again with him.
So things are going slow but in the good direction....
Take care
Posted by tootall67 (tootall67), 25 August 2004
Hi. It's been a long time. I am almost finished with this. Dr. Milon cleared me at the beginning of this month to do whatever I want. I still have to get the quadriceps built back up. I am a big guy, and I am abit scared to try jogging yet. Still, I am riding my bicycle, lifting weights and all this with NO PAIN in the knee. So things are going well.
How about you? What's new with you? I would like to know.
Posted by panbagnat (panbagnat), 26 August 2004
This is great news !!! It just confirm the feeling I have about Dr Millon: a great Surgeon who does care about his patient.
Personnaly I am still in a middle of a long process: I underwent in July injections of Calcium in order to improve my knee condition (and into cure the algodirtrophy). I will get more injections in Septembre. After this, I will have to try running a little bit and meet with Dr Millon in order to do a check on my knee.
My knee improved a little bit in the last 2 months and I try to swim and ride my bike as musch as I can.
However, my final goal is still to be able to surf again someday. Dr Millon thinks it is possible so I trust him....
Good for you once again, it seems that your knee problems are history now !!!!
Posted by tootall67 (tootall67), 19 November 2004
Panbagnat, hello! I just came back from a vacation in the USA at my mother's. I played golf and actually was able to play a little basketball with my best friend's children. The knee is in great shape.
I have to call Dr. Milon at the beginning of December to schedule when we are going to take out the screws. He will probably do that in March.
How are things with you? Hope it's better. Our communications have more and more time between them.
Posted by Pan_bagnat (Pan_bagnat), 15 December 2004
Hello, hello,
It's been a long time, so long that I forgot my pwd and cannot have access to my old email account (changed job) so I had to create a new account (with almost the same name...)
So I can see that your knee problems are history now: playing basketball, running etc.
I wished I could say so: my knee has not improved a bit since lat time we wrote to each other I was expecting to be able to snowboard this winter but now I wonder if I will only be able to do it again someday...
It has been so long that I am feeling the pain and I have read so many bad thing about artherosis that I am pretty conviced my situation will never improve.
I am supposed to meet with Dr Milon in Febrary, undergo a radiography to have a clear view of my knee condition. He is a great surgeon but not a magician so I have little hope left to be honnest...
It is not fair because all my probems came from a bad surgeon, and it is not fair because sport was really an important part of my life, but I guess that's the way it is.
However, I am really happy that you are able to get a normal life now.
I wish you and your familly a merry christmass and all the best for 2005.
take care.
Updated Sat Nov 21 2009
