Cruciate ligaments :

Jogging/Post Op 3 months - - Posted by desiree1 (desiree1), 8 December 2004

Hi All,

Well im now at the 3 month mark all is going fairly well im road cycling 3 times a week and exercising quite a bit the knee is a little stiff at times and also aches occasionally and feels I would say about 60 % strength of my good knee.
At what point is it good to start jogging again I feel I need another 3 or 4 weeks but wondered when others have started to or told to ?
Ive started doing slow figure of eights in the gym walking pace and jogging on the trampaline..
Keep smiling  and positive everyone

Chris

Posted by chaddy (chaddy), 8 December 2004

Hi Chris,

I was really keen to start running as I saw this as a giant leap in my progress. I started on 3 months with the guidance of my physio. I ran for 1 minute and walked for 3 mins. I have gradually built this up to approx 15 mins without stopping at the moment and I 'm 4 months post op.

Let me know if you want to know anything else

Mark
Posted by desiree1 (desiree1), 9 December 2004

Mark,

Thanks for info.I was wondering if you jog outside now and how your knee feels ??  Is it feeling weak at all and is it stiff at all.
Do you feel that returning to football is not to far away ?
Im very positive as to the long term recovery but sometimes it feels a long haul and it will never be back to what it was but im sure the rewards are there if you still to the rehab...
Have you given your self a comeback target ?
Cheers

Chris
Posted by 1Boysie (1Boysie), 9 December 2004

Hi

Really important to do impact work at the right time and not before. Your surgeon/PT should advise you.

Do remember that the graft becomed weaker- up to three months post op- before it properly integrates at the biological level. The graft needs time. Do be patient and don't be tempted to 'run before you can walk'!

Closed chain, low impact exercise can do great things for your fitness and stability. Again, get a good PT to help!

Good luck- I am off skiing next week and had my ACL fixed in February!

Julian




Posted by chaddy (chaddy), 10 December 2004

Hi Chris,

I started to run outside at about 3.5 months post op, again, just taking it really easy and returning home after 10 minutes. I have been steadily increasing my time running outside and I managed a 40 minute run 2 days ago, I felt no pain or stiffness and this increased my confidence lots. I try to avoid running everyday and vary my exercises with rowing, weights, bike and swimming to 'rest' the graft! Some days I just rest all day although my knee feels ok to exercise.
I play football (soccer for the US readers) at quite a high level so returning too early would not be a good idea as I would have no choice but to put 100% in each game. I am, however, sticking to my OS's advice and returning to light training on the 5 month mark. This will prob involve dribbling, turning etc. but no tackles. I think I will aim to return to competitive football at 7/8months.
I am extremely happy with the progress of my rehab, I have been patient and have worked very hard on building my muscle up to it's pre-op state.

What stage are you at with your rehab Phil?

Mark
Posted by chaddy (chaddy), 10 December 2004

....Apologies, I meant Chris.


Posted by desiree1 (desiree1), 14 December 2004

Mark,
Hi,my rehab is going o.k,im cycling 3 times a week doing around 30 mins each time and at work im up and down stairs all day plus im doing some exercies at home like sit to stand on bad leg,wall slides and up and down on bottom stair at a fast pace.
Dont think the strength is there quite yet to jog or is it perhaps I have not jogged since January and forgotten what its like !!!
Its a real struggle to build those quads up but its coming I think i'll start a small jog after Xmas.Quads get a bit stiff sometimes like yest as I was on my feet all day went to the gym for an hour then went off to Fulham/ Man Utd in the eve walking for over an hour all told...
Do your muscles in your operated leg feel as good as the other ones ? any specifics your doing to achieve this thats different to me ??
Bet your looking forward to kicking a ball around in a month or so...
My football is not quite as intense as yours these days althou my vets team i've joined is still quite a high standard to my surprise (im 36 by the way)...
Keep up the good work

Chris  
Posted by bussrott (bussrott), 15 December 2004

Hi Mark/Chris

Been reading your posts with interest. Quite a bit behind you as I am only 2 weeks post op but itching to get back playing football here in the UK. I only play Saturdays and Sundays in local amateur leagues but it's what I enjoy the most in my spare time. What level do you play at Mark?

Before the op my main aim was to get the surgery done, take my time and get ultra fit and strong and get back to playing football in 12 months. But now as the trauma of surgery is still very fresh in my mind, I am currently thinking that I will play very selective matches once fit again as the reality of what a bad injury can put you through is very apparent to me now. So my two questions to you guys is

a) Does this doubt go away as the rehab progresses and you get fitter and stronger, therefore increasing your passion to get back on the pitch

b) How do you think you will cope phycologically with those first few tackles......There gonna be a bit scarey aren't they  

All the best

Russ
Posted by chaddy (chaddy), 16 December 2004

Hi Russ and Chris,

To answer a few of your questions, the reasons why I am so motivated to returning to football is because I have played competitively since I was 7 yrs old and sad as it sounds,..it's played a major part in my life! I currently play semi-pro and earn a reasonable income from playing, but its the enjoyment and fitness which motivates more than anything else. I personally find it very motivating to go and watch my team and listen to the pre-match team talk, this makes me more determined than ever to return.
With regards to the 1st few matches on my return, I think there will be a huge mental barrier. According to my OS, the psychological barrier is the greatest, the graft will be fine apparently. I think the 1st challenge will break that barrier but it will be scary!
Chris, I think you should consider starting to run with the supervision of the physio (unless already discharged), I found it strange at first but found the leg could cope with it no problem. Alternatively, try walking at a fast pace on a steep incline, you can feel the hamstrings working really well. I have started running approx 4 miles now and I feel strong. I have also started 'upping' my weights on the leg press, leg extension and hamstring press so maybe this could be an option also. Im still icing it every day too.
After doing much research on rehab and returning to sports, I cant believe that Roberto Baggio returned playing Serie A football at 2 1/2 months post op....crazy but there you go.

Update me on your progress.

Thanks

Mark
Posted by desiree1 (desiree1), 18 December 2004

Mark,Russ,
Hi Again,
I've been having NHS physio for the last 3 months and while its been o.k I feel they are not really Sports physios so dont really know a great deal about ACL injuries I seem to find more info myself via the internet and talking to a top sports physio I know over in Norway (my girlfriends country ).
Im only seeing the physio here once a month now so im glad to have this site to talk about rehab.Im not a gym person so dont belong to one so all my rehab is on the bike and doing exercies at home.My knee itself feels pretty good but the Quads really are a struggle whilst they are improving they do get stiff at times ,if im exercising and on my feet all day as I generally am. I do alot of walking and I did jog to the shops on friday for the first time stopping every so often,it felt a bit strange and leg feels a bit weak but I have the feeling the more I do the better it will get,i still need to get my sense of balance back with the leg when I jog if you know what I mean.
What team do you play for Mark ?? is this your full time job ??
Hope everythings is going o.k Russ ?
I reckon Its going to be another 4 months till I play again which is somthing to look forward to in the New Year.I agree with you Mark that football is also very important to me as i've got older I've kind of enjoyed it more and dont miss playing a high demanding standard anymore,I've taken enough kicks and hard tackles over the years to not miss that side of it

Chris      
Posted by chaddy (chaddy), 21 December 2004

Hi Chaps,

Hope we are doing ok and are nearing the road to full recovery. I've been to physio again this morning, my motivation levels seem to have decreased lots over the last few weeks to attend these sessions.
Posted by chaddy (chaddy), 21 December 2004

....sorry, this computer is v. sensitive.

Anyway, I feel that I may be wasting my time at the physio sessions. The exercises are very basic and benefit those short term post op only I feel. I can feel the trampete and balancing exercises working my knee but I can do these at home or at the gym. Also, the physio's are young and I feel slightly inexperienced with the exception of the senior physio who is rarely in anyway. When do you think would be a suitable 'cut-off' date?
To answer your question Chris, I don't play football full time anymore, it doesn't pay enough. I play in the N.W. Counties Division 1, it's a decent semi-pro standard. I was starting to get back into good form after going to University and then this happens, so frustrating! My leg feels strong it just aches especially when I pull my leg in towards my chest with force, the anterior area of my knee feels sore as if the miniscus hasnt yet healed. What do you think it could be?

Mark
Posted by desiree1 (desiree1), 22 December 2004

Hi Mark,
Im only going to the physio once a month now as I agree with you im doing the same exercises in the gym I can do at home and the physios in the NHS dont know a great deal about ACL rehab they only refer to a ACL booklit when im there and I know most of what to do via my own research and I almost end up telling them what I can and cant do !!!
Im due back at the physio early Jan and maybe that will be the last time and seeing the surgeon again late Feb,I saw him 3 weeks ago and he said my new ACL was rock solid which was of great comfort.
So to answer your question about scaling down physio work you might as well but you are a month ahead of me so you must be getting near to kicking a ball around with your team ?
I do get aches in my Anterior part of my knee from time to time and the muscles do get stiff around my knee and across the scar under my knee especially when I contract the muscles around it.
Overall my knee feels far more stable and getting stronger and im not restricted in anyway..
Do you have any numbness around the scar area as I have ?? im told that could be there for some time but its not really bothering me...

Chris  
Posted by ramsay007 (ramsay007), 22 December 2004

Hi guys,

I am also a keen football (soccer) player, not at a high standard i play for my university side and have played ever since i was about 8. I am interested in your points about the mental aspect of taking that first takle on return to the game. I am only 6 weeks post op but hope to be back for the start of next season, tho im not gonna rush back.

When i originally injured my knee it was a nothing challenge, stretched with right foot for the ball, left boot studs cought in the ground, was nudged slightly, twist, pop! It is the first injusry i have ever really had, in the 12 years of playing ive never before had to miss a game through injury. Despite all this watching games on the telly now i cringe at so many tackles, or even when players twist or turn quickly. Obviously it will take time to get back in the proper mind set, look at Pires, he bottled everything when he came back from it.

What i wanted to ask is how did you guys do your injuries? Last season was the first year i wore blades, and i cant help feel that if i had studs on that they wouldnt have caught in the turf. It may be rubbish but needless to say i have given the boots away and when i return i will be purchasing a nice pair of studs!!!!

Jim
Posted by bussrott (bussrott), 22 December 2004

Hi Jim

I did mine in a similar way to you, on astroturf though, with A/Turf trainers on.

A guy was running down the pitch with the ball and I came in from the side and put my right foot in for the tackle, like a block tackle from the side with the outside of my right foot (If that makes sense! ). My Astro studs obviously gripped into the astro and his 10 stone or so plus his 10 miles per hour won the strength battle with my ACL. I can still picture it now URGH!

Anyway looking back it would have been a slide tackle on grass, and in hind sight not a very clever thing to do on astro, but hey I am a Roy Keane (Almost as good ) type ball winning player so have made those sorts of tackles on the astro hundreds of times before.

I do agree though Jim, I now watch my mates play and before you sometimes thought you may get a pulled muscle, bruise or a cut but never anything as life affecting as this! I cringe when I see some of the challenges go in and if they only knew what the consequences could be eh  

1 week post op I questioned playing again at all as there is no way I want to go through this again, but now at 3 weeks PO (My diary is posted "ACL Pat/auto UK" if interested) I am re-jigging my thoughts to playing in selective games at a lower level (Can be worse though as more Hackers) and not going in for half the challeges I used to. I used to be into every challenge 110%, thought it was great!

Mark - Which team do you play for in the N.W. Counties Division 1? I think a local team I once played for are in that division, Eccleshall

Russ


Posted by 1Boysie (1Boysie), 24 December 2004

Dear All

On much of the above it's about confidence. The one thing my surgeon said he can't rebuild.

If you rehab well it's no more likely to tear than it did in the first place.

I just came back from skiing 10 months post op. The first morning was terrfiying- but really it was all in my head- the knee works! Skiing hard and fast and steep by the end.

Good luck to you all. There are some amazing footballers who've had this op. But of course they have access to  much more time and physio than most of us. Can anyone comment on Robert Pirez? Did he skip out of the way of defenders before he did his acl?!!


Julian


Posted by jbluestein (jbluestein), 24 December 2004

good post julian, I guess if your rehab goes well, your confidence will be higher.

I'm hoping that's going to be the case after my surgery.

Did you ski with a brace at 10 months? If so, what type.

Posted by 1Boysie (1Boysie), 27 December 2004

Hi

No brace- my surgeon advises against it. He takes the somewhat tough view that he wants no stone unturned on the rehab. He believes that there is no substitute for muscle strength. This is the safest brace you can have. He also said that, given that braces are holding on to soft tissue, in the event of a major trauma, they don't provide much support. He believes the benefit of braces is psychological and the best way to work on psycology is to know you are really strong!

That said, I must say that a ski puts pressure on the knee that is hard to replicate on a bike or running. I'd be interested in anyone having a regime that re-creates the forces of, say, herringbone climbing with skiis on. When you do that, you are lifting the leg with weight on it, with the knees twisting. That's a spooky feeling for the first time!

Good luck. What graft are you having?


Julian


Posted by andrewc (AndrewC), 27 December 2004

Hi there

Julian....take a look at this SUPERB pre ski training program. Some of it gets VERY instense but hey....if you've got to build up lots of strength (and endurance) it is perfect and aimed totally at strength to prevent injuries while skiing. Obviously you have to factor in whereabouts you are in terms of your recovery and rehab and not go over the top, but I have been using the program for general fitness and strength rehab and found it great. Just click on the "pdf" file links in the document for FULL info on the three stages of the program.

http://www.stoneclinic.com/preski.htm

Hope people find it useful (if not very tough!)
Posted by jbluestein (jbluestein), 28 December 2004

good posts, looks like a good workout regimen, I'll check the .pdf out.

julian - I'm having an allograft, probably in Feb., with a few staples in my medial meniscus for good measure.

I heard the same said about knee braces, more for your head than your knee.

But, after surgery, I may use one if there's a small chance it might keep my graft from twisting.  

good luck, glad to hear you're back on snow within a year.
Posted by 1Boysie (1Boysie), 8 January 2005

Thanks Andrew and Jbluestein (?) for your helpful comments.

Programme looks really good.

And good luck with the ACL surgery. Why the extra staples?


Julian


Posted by jbluestein (jbluestein), 8 January 2005

they're not extra staples really, they're to repair my slightly torn, hopefully repairable, medial meniscus.

I tried to get around ACL surgery 2 years ago by wearing a brace, now I have a tear in my meniscus.

I'm extremely bummed about it  
Posted by Wookster (Wookster), 9 January 2005

on 12/27/04 at 17:16:39, 1Boysie wrote:

This old Forum was so valuable that we have kept it as an archive. It is just for reference. If you want to ask questions or offer advice, there is also a current Bulletin Board which you can access from our home page.

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