Collateral Ligaments and other non-cruciate tendons & ligaments around the knee :
ACL, Lateral Collateral healing chances - - Posted by Philip (Philip), 2 May 2004
Hey there,
3 weeks ago I had an accident power kiting. I landed on a straight leg when the kite pulled me forward hyperextending my knee. The first diagnosis was a complete rupture of ACL, PCL, Lateral Collateral, Ilio Tibia Band and Biceps Femoris Tendon, as well as a broken tibia (fracture starting just below the plateau going down)
2 weeks ago I was operated in Edinburgh (New Royal Infermary). The PCL proved to be not damaged, the rest of the diagnosis was correct and the ligaments were repaired (the ACL was reconstructed using the Patella tendon) - I don;t know how the Laterlal Colateral was repaired.
I started my physio now (mainly flexibility and static flexing) and would like to hear if others with a similar injury made a swift and full recovery (my main sports are climbing, running and well skiing, although I might stop going skiing for a while).
Thanks,
Philip
Posted by KJ (KJ), 3 May 2004
You were very lucky to have been seen in Edinburgh where they do acute reconstructive surgery for multiligament injuries. In many other places you are just left to wait and see what the stability is like.
It's a bad injury but you certainly stand the best chance of a good outcome if you have early surgery for lateral/posterolateral injuries.
However it is still likely to take months rather than weeks to get where you want to be - even straightforward ACL reconstructions take a good 9-12 months for good recovery and this is more complicated.
THe more you apply yourself to rehab the better - but don't do more than you are allowed or you run the risk of stretching the grafts.
KJ
Posted by Philip (Philip), 4 May 2004
Thanks for that. I guess I was lucky, initially I was seen in Dundee however I was then transfered to Edinburgh, where I was operated by Dr Keating.
Concerning stretching the grafts - I was told I am allowed to stretch to 90 degrees, which I am able to do now (nearly 3 weeks post op) - when does overstretching normally take place and when is there a strain on the ACL?
Also having ripped the other tendon and the itb, is there anyone who had a similar injury. I was told that ripping the itb is rather unusal - however I don't know about the long term effects.
Also, is it normal that even nearly 3 weeks after the op the knee is still pretty sore, especially at nights?
Well, thanks for any replies, better get on with my physio now....
Cheers,
Philip
Posted by ishpal (ishpal), 24 May 2004
How strange, I have had a similar injury to you. I tore my PCL, LCL and a partial tear in my MCL. Its been 9 weeks post op, and I've almost got 90 degrees back in my leg.
I think ACL recoveries are usually quicker than PCL's.
My mate had an ACL graft and now hes back to normal, It took just over a year. I think multiple ligament injuries will take longer though.
Don't know how i'm gonna improve, but hope fully i'm just gonna keep pushing at it, I think thats the only way.
Posted by Philip (Philip), 25 May 2004
Wow, sounds very similar, especially as initially they thought that my PCL was ripped as well. They told me I was rather lucky in that my main nerve did not get damaged as it passes on that lateral side of the knee. I think all doctors that saw me checked up on my feelings in my feet about three times, not believing that it was okay.....
Anyway, my physio is going fairly well, I am still in quite a bit of pain especially in the night (are you as well??) even 6 weeks post op. I manage about 0-115 degrees at the moment, but I have been very aggressive in my stretching regime - although my knee is fairly swollen. (Also I just posted a new thread on the ACL injury thread).
Well, as stupid as it sounds but somehow it is good to hear from others with similar injuries....I hope you are getting on with your physio and are not too depressed about it (I was from time to time but I guess this is all but normal if you are used to do sports 4 times a week...) - keep us posted about your progress
Philip
Posted by shambles (shambles), 9 June 2004
Phillip,
Sorry to hear of your accident. You are lucky in that the nerve was not damaged. I was unfortunate enough to have torn my peroneal nerve and will have "foot drop" for life.
Best wishes for a speedy recovery.
Posted by Philip (Philip), 23 June 2004
Dear Shambles,
I am very sorry to hear about your accident - very unlucky and I hope that the nerve somehow repairs itself.
When I first got to the hospital one of the first things I heard was that 'You were very very lucky indeed not to have damaged your nerves' at that stage still shocked from this very strange accident I could not really appreciate what the doctor said, rather considered myself pretty unlucky to have ripped 2 ligaments and more - by now and since your posting I do appreciate that it could have been much worse - thus I was lucky....
Also, a friend of mine had a bad accident were she had a lot of nerve damage (the doctors told her that she won't be able to walk again) - however 6 months later and combing normal PT with loads of Acupuncture treatment she can walk again - I don't know whether it could help you but it might be worth looking into the possibility of have acupuncture for your nerve damage.
Well, I hope you will recover and all the best - thank you for the posting.
Philip
Posted by grudier (grudier), 30 June 2004
I also ruptured my IT band along with the ACL, PCL, and LCL I am 7 months post op and doing good, I did have complications. In addition I was put in a full leg cast for 6 weeks. So even now I top out 120 degrees ROM. Good luck.
Posted by ishpal (ishpal), 1 July 2004
well just over 3 months post op now, the legs looking better, a lot of the swelling has come down and I now have rom of 0 - 125 degrees. Still have a few issues of doing hamdtring curls (can only get about 100 degrees ROM) but I thinks thats mainly down to muscle loss.
started going to the gym and getting on the cycling and eliptical machines. Phoo!!!! quite tiring.
Knee still feels stiff but I think that will improve with time
Well best get back in the gym and start drinking a few protein shakes in order to get the muscle back.
Hope everyone else is improving too.
Keep on icing and moving and thinks will start to look rosy
Posted by Philip (Philip), 3 July 2004
Hey there,
grudier, that seems very much like what they initial diagnosed for my injury, but I got away not rupturing my PLC instead I did my biceps femoris and have a fracture, which meant that I was not allow to put any weight on the leg for 5 weeks. How did it happen? And can you now do some sports again? I wish you all the best.
I am now much better - but, despite not having any complication so far (knock on wood) my knee is still swollen and I still wake up in the night from time to time (well nearly every night - only now I manage to fall asleep fairly quickly) as my knee still feels stiff - do you guys have (had) similar experience?? Walking is fine although I still have a bit of a limp and sitting still for too long is uncomfortable.
I thought of doing acupuncture has I was told this helps with the pain (well it is more discomfort that real pain) - anyone of you any experience with acupunture?
In 2 weeks it is 3 months post op - I am at -5 - 120 ROM and really really suffering doing my stretching (only got 5 degrees in the last 3 weeks) - in two weeks I will see my OS hope he has good news. Also I have similar problems with my harmstring curls. I can passively stretch much better than actively pulling my leg in - I think that is normal.
All the best for you - I hope everything goes fine and let us know when there are any news!
Cheers,
Philip
Posted by grudier (grudier), 6 July 2004
Hurt my knee playing football, rushing the quarterback and had another player run into the inside of my knee. My cleats stuck in the ground and all my weight was on that leg so it pretty much snapped. Fortunately I had my surgery pretty fast 3 weeks post accident. Unfortunately I was in a full leg cast for 6 weeks, during which I continued to bleed out. Due to my ortho being so far away, it took 6 weeks for them to figure out I had a staph infection, so I had to go back into surgery to clean it up. Lost 25 lbs and was rewarded with 3 more weeks in a splint. I'm in the military so I then was restationed stateside (hurt my leg in Korea), and didn't start my physical therapy until I was 3 months post op. Now all things considered I am happy with my progress. My bodyweight is back up, I ran (with pain ) for the first time yesterday, and my physical strength is coming back up gradually. My hamstrings are way behind everything else. My physical therapist told me I can get aggressive with my weight training, just wear a brace when going heavy. I played a lot of softball, football, basketball, and while I think my career for the contact sports is over, golf, softball, sports like that should be okay. The hardest thing for me is patience, but my ortho told me if I reinjure my knee now it would be real bad, so slow and steady is the way to go. Good to hear from you. Keep in touch knowing you're not alone is always encouraging.
Posted by grudier (grudier), 6 July 2004
Forgot about my range of motion, on my injured leg on my best day I topped out at 122 degrees, on a bad day as little as 112, my ortho says that may be as good as it gets. It feels like something behind the knee or inside is stopping me. I no longer feel the pain over the knee just inside so for me that's not encouraging. The hamstrings are still sore everyday no matter what so I am resigned to it. Occasionally I do have bad days (or nights) from pain, where even walking can be painful but this is down to about once a week and can normally be linked to how hard I rehab it. For those days I have percocet. I am now almost eight months post op, but only on 5 months of physical therapy. Good Luck
Posted by Philip (Philip), 16 July 2004
Dear all,
Grudier, that all sounds pretty painful and unlucky - but it sounds as if you are not too depressed about it - it'll all get better it just takes it's time.
Concerning post-op time I have been very lucky. I just saw my OP yesterday for my 3 month post-op check-up and he was very pleased with the progress. And said that the new ACL does it's work, is stable and I can slowly start to go jogging in a straight line. My ROM is 0-120 and he expects to get more movement back in the next few weeks.
Also, and finally my pain as subsided and after 9 weeks of fairly restless nights I can sleep really well and sit for quite a while and my desk. With the firm belief that I will be alright - it is much easier to cope with the discomfort that my knee causes (still) - but it is getting better.
The only slightly worrying thing is a bit of laxity but I think that should be alright (OS said not to worry)
Grudier, I know how it feels having to be patient. My physio always tells me to go slow - but it is really hard. On the other hand, all I want to avoid is to have to go through the last 3 months again - so that is what slows me donw - thus I try to stick to the protocol and not do too much wheight. You mentioned you wear a brace when going on heavy wheights - I haven't worn mine for weeks and they told me to go very slow on wheight and rather do loads of biking and swimming, which I am doing at the moment. Still my quads are really thin compared to my healthy knee.
Anyway, I hope you guys are experiencing progress and can tell you I am a very very happy man today - really relieved after what my OS told me.
All the best,
Philip
Posted by grudier (grudier), 16 July 2004
Thanks for the reply, glad to see you're doing so good this soon, at 3 months I was barely at 95 degrees ROM. I'm up to 124 degrees now flexion and 2 degrees extension but that is my natural ROM in both legs. My right leg (injured) is so much smaller than my left but it's getting better. The definition is coming backand I don't feel like I'm running with someone else's leg anymore. I can feel my receptors starting to fire together more and more. Everyday is getting better, just have to be patient. My physical therapist seems to be amazed with my progress so far, and Monday I start an aggressive rehab program, designed for athletes, I am in the army so it's also designed to slowly get you confident about moving on uneven ground, cutting movements, jumping. I tried it about two months ago, but the leg wasn't strong enough yet. Now I think I'll be okay. good luck with everything stay in touch.
Rob Grudier
Updated Sat Nov 7 2009
