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KNEEgeeks
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The OSTEOARTHRITIS DEPARTMENT
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KNEE ARTHRITIS - Articular cartilage repair
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ACIMod
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OATS Decision
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Topic: OATS Decision (Read 1107 times)
Jynnjer
MICROgeek (<20 posts)
Posts: 6
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OATS Decision
«
on:
October 22, 2012, 04:13:41 PM »
I have a follow-up with the doc on Wednesday 10/24/2012 to make the decision about OATS. My problem and pains are more about limitations and infringing on the things I want to do that I can't
What I am able to do is limited by the strength and health of my knee. I've had steroid shots, a synvisc shot (11/2011) and chondroplasty (8/2012)—all with no success. I am too young for knee replacement and I have bone-on-bone area with localized and shooting pains down my shin and in my quadricep. The knee pops, cracks and grinds, feels compromised.
Is OATS worth it? I don't want to be limited in what I can for the next few years with pain only to decide after those years, "ok, let's do this, I've suffered enough" —I've lost the time I can't get back.
I can deal with post-op pain and limitation as long as I know there's light at the end of the tunnel and I will return to full mobility (or REALLY close) without pain.
Any suggestions and opinions would be helpful
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NickCat11
Regular Poster
Posts: 68
Liked: 0
Re: OATS Decision
«
Reply #1 on:
October 22, 2012, 07:46:53 PM »
Go see a
true
cartilage specialist. If it's an isolated cartilage lesion you should be looking at Denovo NT especially since you're young. You could also look at stem cell injections which are also an excellent non surgical alternative. I'm having great success with them for my cartilage lesion on my humerus. Just my 2 cents
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Jynnjer
MICROgeek (<20 posts)
Posts: 6
Liked: 0
Re: OATS Decision
«
Reply #2 on:
October 23, 2012, 04:10:02 PM »
Thanks for the advice. I'm researching the pros and cons of both. I am concerned about allograft as opposed to autograft. I'll talk with my OS tomorrow about what I find out.
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Overdidit
MINIgeek (20-50 posts)
Posts: 49
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Re: OATS Decision
«
Reply #3 on:
October 23, 2012, 05:00:03 PM »
I agree with Nick . . .are you in the states? So here's my story . . . .ACI cells died twice - even before implanting them, Oats Cadaver on femur - One plug took, the other plug has failed (had two). Had OATS Allograft under my kneecap - worked great . . . .
In line for another OATS surgery - in the first week of January. HOWEVER, this surgery is OATS with chondrofix (very new procedure) and I will be part of a clinical trial.
Any questions, don't hesitate to contact me.
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Jynnjer
MICROgeek (<20 posts)
Posts: 6
Liked: 0
Re: OATS Decision
«
Reply #4 on:
October 23, 2012, 05:46:12 PM »
I am in the states. Are you in the states or UK?
My OS does plan to take tissue samples for possible ACI in the future if the OATS is not successful (this to keep from having to do another surgery). I read some about the chondrofix. I'll as the OS about that as well.
My hope is the OATS will be successful and I'll move forward from there. I have a list of questions to go over with the OS before I commit to anything. He's not pushing the surgery. I'm looking for a solution with positive results. I have too many years ahead of me and I want to wring as much out of them as I possibly can.
So, you had ACI before OATS? How do you feel about chondrofix? Have you looked into or talked with your OS about Denovo NT?
I know my insurance will cover the OATS, but I'm not sure it will cover Denovo NT or ACI unless I go through the OATS first. You know—jump through all the hoops in a predetermined pattern
I just thought that I owed it to myself to really check into other peoples experiences and opinions.
I notice a lot of people reviewing posts, but not a lot of people posting.
Thanks for the input.
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markld
Regular Poster
Posts: 99
Liked: 0
Re: OATS Decision
«
Reply #5 on:
October 23, 2012, 08:53:44 PM »
Oats or oca's are known as bridge burners in the orthopaedic community meaning once you have the procedure, you can not have ACI or denovo, however it is possible to do the opposite meaning start with Denovo or AcI then do oats......
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April 2008 microfracture left knee trochlea
Jan 2009 ACI harvest from right knee
Mar 2009 ACI right knee trochlea
July 2009 Aci left knee
Nov 2009 left knee scope to check graft
Jynnjer
MICROgeek (<20 posts)
Posts: 6
Liked: 0
Re: OATS Decision
«
Reply #6 on:
October 24, 2012, 01:09:28 PM »
Another question for the OS today. I'm still busy researching all options and the pros and cons of all procedures. TMI on the internet sometimes. It can be difficult to wade through everything that's available.
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Overdidit
MINIgeek (20-50 posts)
Posts: 49
Liked: 0
Re: OATS Decision
«
Reply #7 on:
October 24, 2012, 01:51:51 PM »
I am in the States. So they harvested the cartilage for ACI TWICE but mine died in the lab whilst they were trying to grow them. That is why I HAD to have the OATS. Half of the first OATS procedure has failed which is why they are trying Chondrofix now.
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Jynnjer
MICROgeek (<20 posts)
Posts: 6
Liked: 0
Re: OATS Decision
«
Reply #8 on:
October 24, 2012, 02:28:44 PM »
Do you know why half of the OATS failed? Was the autograft plug not viable? If that's the case, I can see why they would go to chondrofix.
I have to assume my lesion is < 2cm
2
because of the surgery recommended. That being the case, what I'm reading indicates this surgery should be successful.
Someone posted that OATS is a bridge-burning procedure and ACI would not be an option. A question for the OS. I did read a report that ACI is not an option for OATS (allograft) if the lesion is > 2cm
2
.
http://www.orthocarolina.com/uploads/file/Articular%20Cartilage%20Lesions%20-%20Dr%20Fleischli.pdf
Chondroplasty post op, the OS told my husband that the next step would be OATS if this was not successful. This is not a cut-happy surgeon. For him to suggest this indicated he did not have a lot of hope for the surgery's success based on what he saw through the scope. I have been hoping for the last 11 weeks that it would be successfull to no avail. Right now, I just want to be able to do what I want to do without pain or fear the knee will not support me.
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Overdidit
MINIgeek (20-50 posts)
Posts: 49
Liked: 0
Re: OATS Decision
«
Reply #9 on:
October 24, 2012, 03:57:20 PM »
It seems that I am not the norm. For ACI cells to die is less than 1% . . Mine died TWICE. For the OATS - They used the same cadaver and 1 plug took and 1 plug died. . Again, NOT THE NORM.
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Jynnjer
MICROgeek (<20 posts)
Posts: 6
Liked: 0
Re: OATS Decision
«
Reply #10 on:
October 24, 2012, 05:05:18 PM »
With you history with allografts, what does your OS say are your odds with chondrofix? Was your lesion too large for autograft? What about DeNovo NT that NickCat11 mentioned? Is this an option for you?
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Overdidit
MINIgeek (20-50 posts)
Posts: 49
Liked: 0
Re: OATS Decision
«
Reply #11 on:
October 24, 2012, 05:40:19 PM »
They can't give me the odds of it working because I appear to be different from everyone else . . .They are even leaning toward my leg having a genetic defect . . .I am not sure of the size of my lesions. . . . .My surgeon has never ever mentioned Denovo . .
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NickCat11
Regular Poster
Posts: 68
Liked: 0
Re: OATS Decision
«
Reply #12 on:
October 25, 2012, 01:39:15 AM »
Jynn,
Mark is right and I would stress this to your surgeon. Oats burns bridges and doesn't leave you with to many options if it's unsuccessful. I would really push for Denovo NT even if that means paying more out of pocket due to insurance reasons. You can always fall back on Oats...
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Flyinglion
MINIgeek (20-50 posts)
Posts: 27
Liked: 0
Re: OATS Decision
«
Reply #13 on:
October 25, 2012, 01:04:53 PM »
Jynnjer,
I am 5+ months out from Denovo NT for multiple defects in the patella and trochlea. I saw several surgeons before I settled on one. A couple recommended OATS but the surgeon who performed my Denovo NT mentioned I do not have any subchondral bone problems just cartliage damage. Did your OS mentioned problems with the bone beneath your cartlidge?
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February 2011 - Injured right knee playing indoor soccer
April 2011 - MRI showed patella & trochlea grade 4 kissing defects
June 2011 - Right Knee Scope/ACI Biopsy
November 2011 - Synvisc Injections
May 31, 2012 - Denovo NT Patella & Trochela, Lateral Release/TTO/MPFL Reconstruction
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KNEEgeeks
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The OSTEOARTHRITIS DEPARTMENT
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KNEE ARTHRITIS - Articular cartilage repair
(Moderators:
The KNEEguru
,
ACIMod
) »
OATS Decision
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