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KNEEgeeks
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The REHAB DEPARTMENT
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Soft Tissue Healing Problems - Arthrofibrosis
(Moderators:
The KNEEguru
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ACIMod
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Week 8 post TKR, could these symptoms be AF.
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Topic: Week 8 post TKR, could these symptoms be AF. (Read 1107 times)
Plumb
SuperKNEEgeek
Posts: 3825
Liked: 2
Week 8 post TKR, could these symptoms be AF.
«
on:
October 14, 2012, 11:44:15 AM »
Last Monday I went to my OS due to continued pain and intense stiffness in the morning.
The OS examined my knee and said my ITB ban was inflamed and my extension was a bit off.
I am unsure if this soft tissue response can be called AF.
Normally each morning it has become extreme painful , stiff and painful to the point I am dragging my leg to the point of me thinking to pull the walker out again. My knee is still warm most of the time. I am also a diabetic. I did not have this issue with my first implant. This morning once again the tightness returned.
The OS at this time said to cut down PT to 1 or 2 times a week and if not better cortisone injection into ITB
The whole knee cap area is tight, I guess vmo is still weak.
So my lingering question is. Is all soft tissue issues post TKR considered AF???
Logged
captainruss
SuperKNEEgeek
Posts: 675
Liked: 3
Re: Week 8 post TKR, could these symptoms be AF.
«
Reply #1 on:
November 02, 2012, 03:11:28 AM »
Plumb,
See someone who knows what AF is immediately. Also make sure they are giving you an anti-inflammatory. My AF turned into Heterotropic Ossification (bone growth in the soft tissue). Dr. Noyes in Cincinnati....talk to missmyknee she is seeing dr. Woltjy's.....AF can be treated early but if you wait or let some horse's a******* OS tell you that the AF is actually a low grade infection, you will be too late.
I am not trying to scare you, but if you are having stiffness, pain, heat in the joint, and lack of flexion/extension you should be getting checked first.
I had three OS and three infectious disease horse's a*** doctors tell me that my knee was infected. Every single (more than 50) culture and test for infection came back negative for the last three years but every single OS stated it was infected. My last OS split to TN from Florida in the middle of the night last month. All my records are now in Knoxville....no letter...no call. I actually testified for the man twice when he went out on his own.
Just find someone who specializes in AF.
Russ
Logged
80 Shattered patella 5 surg
09 TKR
09 MUA
09 MUA
09 Knee infected??
10 TKR Scar Tissue
10 2nd OS Diagnosis Infection
10 TKR with antibiotic spacer, no joint
4/11 TKR
11 TKR PT
11 TKR
11 TKR AF diagosis
12/11 HO diagnosed
2012 Intractable Pain
2012 OS split
amputation possible?
Plumb
SuperKNEEgeek
Posts: 3825
Liked: 2
Re: Week 8 post TKR, could these symptoms be AF.
«
Reply #2 on:
November 02, 2012, 05:23:23 AM »
I am having issues with lateral pain, pinching burning , warm knee . Extension is at 10 flex is at 130
I see OS on Monday , I have to call tomorrow to see if he can do pain meds that can be called in since I am in New Jersey and post sandy is a gas shortage .
Been doing gentle leg presses with yoga ball and belt. Plus all the leg raises. Last week I was taped so I am thinkinG my PT suspects muscle imbalance . Last time ii saw doctor he said it was ITB . All I know it should not be feeling this way. I have taken photos before and during my recovery . I have worked my extension so hard , the harder I try the more it hurts. Tired of pain,
The last visit doc said he would do cortisone, The PT says it is the diabetes making the healing harder . I am at the point of giving up on myself ... But doing at home PT has found me in less misery just cutting down to half hour , Taking Celebrex as well does nothing
Hurricane sandy has been making life harder with stress and worry . I have missed my menses since my tkr over stress
Logged
captainruss
SuperKNEEgeek
Posts: 675
Liked: 3
Re: Week 8 post TKR, could these symptoms be AF.
«
Reply #3 on:
December 01, 2012, 07:04:48 PM »
Plumb,
I have been there. The good news is there are really good people who can treat AF. Please read this post I am giving to you:
http://www.kneeguru.co.uk/KNEEnotes/node/633
Dr. Frank Noyes is great on AF. There are several specialists who are also very good. I don't think there is one (1) in Florida where I am at, but I am not making the mistake I made before. I went forward and had multiple surgeries because they kept telling me the high SED Rate, high C-Reactive Protein levels, and the heat/swelling were due to infection.
The perception was infection was the worst complication possible, but because they treated me for infection instead of AF, I still have the AF and my immune system has been wrecked due to the extraordinary amount of antibiotics I have ingested at the direction of several doctors.
Also, check
www.ASTYM.com
in your area. This is a form of PT that specifically treats AF and has been successful with more patients than it has not been helpful with. Get your OS to prescribe it and this might help
My problem is the scar tissue, which the OS's cut out without my knowledge several times, is being replaced by bone growth...(heterotropic ossification). I am actually watching the bone grow in my knee....which walking on is similar to walking on a hot, sharp knife under my patella tendon.
AF and HO are the bodies method for dealing with percieved trauma and instability in the knee. Your body feels your knee is unstable and so by growing scar tissue through out the capsule spaces of the knee, your knee will be more stable, hence your inability to bend the knee. Your body is not considering the fact that this causes you pain and emotional torture.
Also, google "the intractable pain patients guide to survival" Below are several links that will help you deal with your doctor and what to ask for with pain.
http://pain-topics.org/docs/Press_Release_04.pdf
http://pain-topics.org/docs/Press_Release_04.pdf
http://intractablepaindisease.com/
With AF, I suffered through multiple MUA's. (manipulation under anesthesia) in which they put you out under anesthesia and forcefully try to manipulate bending the knee by force.
Each time the OS bent it until he thought the risk of breaking my leg was too great. I had little success.
I had more success with a very patient PT therapist who worked me over for 2 hours every day. She actually worked very hard to get me from 15 degrees to 70 when I stopped PT.
Don't let it get you down or if you get depressed...feel free to contact me either thru this blog, email or private messages.
I went thru this myself. I was working my dream job...I finally was a Lead Captain....driving dinner boats on the Gulf of Mexico...marrying people at sunset. I had 6 wks of leave built up so I let a doc talk me into having a TKR. I had gone 29 years since my 5 surgeries after shattering my knee cap at 17. He said it would reduce the swelling and pain for 10 years.
I am 10 times worse now pain and mobility wise after eight (
major knee surgeries. The good news is if not for my mistakes and learning about the knee on this blog, I would have followed my OS's advice about my 14 year old daughter and allowed him to do a Lateral Release on her mal alignment and tracking issues. This would have ruined her and her future. Also, I was working 70-80 hours a week. I would probably be divorced now if not for the knee surgery. The wife and I are taking college courses now and in a better place for the first time in the last 5 years of our marriage. We have 22 in, it would have been a shame for it to have ended because I was always gone or tired.
Sooooooooo.....that crap they say about everything happenning for a reason....well in my case at least there are good and bad sides. I am in horrible pain....but have reconnected with my wife, my kids, and my dog.
A dog is very good therapy also. I highly recommend one for this trying time.
If you must have surgery.....if your OS does not put his cell number on your orders in the hospital and give it to you so you can call him day or night if you have a problem or a question, get another doctor.
The minimum number of second opinons is at four (4) for me.....you need that many to hopefully get the second opinion to match the first. It is hard to do.
Cortisone is okay...he can also shoot anesthetic in there.....slow and steady pressure by a PT to break that scar tissue up slowly so it does not regrow with fury is the method that has worked for me. I am also trying astym this week. I would suggest giving it a try in addition to your regular PT. Two astym visits a week is a lot they tell me.
Russ
Logged
80 Shattered patella 5 surg
09 TKR
09 MUA
09 MUA
09 Knee infected??
10 TKR Scar Tissue
10 2nd OS Diagnosis Infection
10 TKR with antibiotic spacer, no joint
4/11 TKR
11 TKR PT
11 TKR
11 TKR AF diagosis
12/11 HO diagnosed
2012 Intractable Pain
2012 OS split
amputation possible?
missmyknee
SuperKNEEgeek
Posts: 2021
Liked: 0
From the Land of OZ
Re: Week 8 post TKR, could these symptoms be AF.
«
Reply #4 on:
December 01, 2012, 08:08:33 PM »
Hi Russ and Plumb
Russ-
So good to hear from you again. I love your posts....despite all your pain , you manage to interject some humor in them. I'm so sorry you are still in unbearable pain. I was hoping maybe you had found something or some doctor who could help you. I know a lot of adults here that are back in collage to change their skills for other forms of employment. I hope some day you can become pain free.
Plumb-
About 6 weeks after my TKR, I developed lateral pain and a pinching pain posterolaterally. Over the next six mos, it got worse and worse. When I saw Dr Noyes for my 6 mos ck, he said he could feel scar tissue all over the lateral side. He gave me a cortisone shot to see if it would help. I had another ck with him 4 weeks later. He xrayed my knee and saw that I had a very small sesamoid bone behind my knee called a fabella bone, right where I was feeling the pinching. You could hardly see it on the xray. He said when my TKR was 1 yr old, he would do surgery to remove it and the scar tissue. When I had the surgery, he said my lateral side...all the ligaments and the IT band, were encased in scar tissue. Plus I had scar tissue all over the medial side, that also compressed a nerve. He debrided all of it and had to do a z-plasty to lengthen my IT band, because it had shortened from the scarring. He also removed the fabella bone. He said it was getting caught in my prosthesis, which explained the pinching pain.
You might have scar tissue on your lateral side. If the burning pain persists and you can palpate where it is located, you might have a neuroma or compressed nerve. Doctors overlook nerve pain as a cause. Those nerves are very small, but they can be extremely painful.
This gives you some feed back on what can happen laterally to your TKR
Pam
Logged
4Fx Clsd red
IMrod fib plate
derotate osteotmy tibfib
AF
IPCS patbaja
DeLeeOsteotmy,LOA,LR Zplasty,bongrf,chondrplty
chondrplty,LOA,fatpad remvd
TKR
openLOA,neurectmy,ITB Zplasty,fabela
PLC recon,revison,LOA,synovec
MCL,revison LOA
openLOA,prox Zplasty
openLOA, 6 neuromas excised,synov
3 Fusions
captainruss
SuperKNEEgeek
Posts: 675
Liked: 3
Re: Week 8 post TKR, could these symptoms be AF.
«
Reply #5 on:
December 01, 2012, 09:19:48 PM »
Pam,
I know you are busy, but my new pursuit of knee knowledge centers around the possibility of having an above the knee amputation?
Opinions? Advice? Sharp knife I can borrow???
Russ
Logged
80 Shattered patella 5 surg
09 TKR
09 MUA
09 MUA
09 Knee infected??
10 TKR Scar Tissue
10 2nd OS Diagnosis Infection
10 TKR with antibiotic spacer, no joint
4/11 TKR
11 TKR PT
11 TKR
11 TKR AF diagosis
12/11 HO diagnosed
2012 Intractable Pain
2012 OS split
amputation possible?
captainruss
SuperKNEEgeek
Posts: 675
Liked: 3
Re: Week 8 post TKR, could these symptoms be AF.
«
Reply #6 on:
December 01, 2012, 09:25:50 PM »
Pam,
The real humor/irony with my college education is I am majoring in Orthotics and Prosthetics. The college 4 miles from my house is the only college in Florida that teaches it and the VA Hospital 5 miles from my house does the internships. My wife works there already, so we are hopeful.
The bad part is my brain is so atrophied from all the oxycontin and lack of higher education. The last time I was in college, computers were the size of my garage and we punched a card for each command. Al Gore was still trying to convince his wife he would some day invent the Internet and Zuckerberg and Facebook were still a smile on his daddy's face!
So....I try to laugh at myself because whenever I come back here, I find people who suffer so much more than I do.....makes me feel like a whiner sometimes and better all the time. It could always be worse...right???
Doctors keep telling me to have my knee fused and live with it. I am not much for the defeatist attitude. Fusing the knee would finish the destruction of my hip and further damage my fused spine.
Has to be a doc out there somewhere with some guts!
Russ
Logged
80 Shattered patella 5 surg
09 TKR
09 MUA
09 MUA
09 Knee infected??
10 TKR Scar Tissue
10 2nd OS Diagnosis Infection
10 TKR with antibiotic spacer, no joint
4/11 TKR
11 TKR PT
11 TKR
11 TKR AF diagosis
12/11 HO diagnosed
2012 Intractable Pain
2012 OS split
amputation possible?
missmyknee
SuperKNEEgeek
Posts: 2021
Liked: 0
From the Land of OZ
Re: Week 8 post TKR, could these symptoms be AF.
«
Reply #7 on:
December 02, 2012, 03:13:34 AM »
Hi Russ
I applaud you for your return to college and your new career path. There will always be jobs in healthcare. Everytime I am in my med center prosthetics dept, it is busy. Your humor will put a lot of patients at ease
I read a post in another section discussing amputation that you participated in. It's no easy decision and you can't reverse it. It can come with it's own set of problems. I even discussed it with my doctor. I already have a fused ankle and foot. I'm sure you have thoroughly researched it, talked to Dr's, prosthetic people and your family. Only you know what it's like, to live with your leg.
Good luck on your new educational endeavor
Pam
Logged
4Fx Clsd red
IMrod fib plate
derotate osteotmy tibfib
AF
IPCS patbaja
DeLeeOsteotmy,LOA,LR Zplasty,bongrf,chondrplty
chondrplty,LOA,fatpad remvd
TKR
openLOA,neurectmy,ITB Zplasty,fabela
PLC recon,revison,LOA,synovec
MCL,revison LOA
openLOA,prox Zplasty
openLOA, 6 neuromas excised,synov
3 Fusions
captainruss
SuperKNEEgeek
Posts: 675
Liked: 3
Re: Week 8 post TKR, could these symptoms be AF.
«
Reply #8 on:
December 02, 2012, 05:10:19 AM »
Pam,
My fear is that with my bad knee and my gait, I will soon need a Total Hip Replacement. That decision would be insane with my propensity for AF, and I fell 2 months ago herniating another disc, so my back is also getting worse.
The whole reason is I believe fusing my knee will ensure that my hip wears out and my back gets worse. Does your fused ankle allow you to walk with proper gait, or does it wear on your hip, back, and of course your knee?
Not one person is excited about cutting off my leg, but I am also not getting anyone to treat me. My last OS slipped off to Tennessee in the middle of the night. I am trying to not take it personally, as he had lots of patients...but the only other person that has left the state due to me is my mother in law!!!
I just think that if the knee is gone, I can concentrate on getting stronger. The artificial knee will track correctly and any step I take, will have proper gait and not wear on my hip or back.
I am afraid I am too old and too fat to dedicate the muscle mass necessary to walk, but I have seen a bionic prosthetic at
www.ossur.com
. It is motorized at the knee and ankle.
My idea is that might be the allowance for my weaker muscle mass??
Anyway, I am trying to adapt. I need to get my daughter fixed first so I will suffer for at least another year before anything is done.
I need to find someone with compromising pictures of my daughter's doctors so I can blackmail him into doing her surgery sooner.....(humor).
I am taking my kids on a cruise....my oldest applies to the Naval Academy in January....although my wife is buying more life insurance....she fears I will look like a wounded one legged jelly donut in my scuba gear and all the sharks will feed on me!!
Fortunately, I should fill up the average 20 foot great white so my kids can escape!!!
Russ
Russ
Logged
80 Shattered patella 5 surg
09 TKR
09 MUA
09 MUA
09 Knee infected??
10 TKR Scar Tissue
10 2nd OS Diagnosis Infection
10 TKR with antibiotic spacer, no joint
4/11 TKR
11 TKR PT
11 TKR
11 TKR AF diagosis
12/11 HO diagnosed
2012 Intractable Pain
2012 OS split
amputation possible?
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»
The REHAB DEPARTMENT
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Soft Tissue Healing Problems - Arthrofibrosis
(Moderators:
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,
ACIMod
) »
Week 8 post TKR, could these symptoms be AF.
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