Compex better than other E-Stim machines?

[veganbee]

Hi all

I ordered this > http://www.neurotracsportsxl.co.uk/?gclid=CLSMvevuvKACFQIslAodQVTNLw this morning after my OS recommended I use a Compex machine pre and post op. I looked into Compex but they seem much more expensive, and I came across this one from recommendations on here. I emailed my physio who said it was the same model they use so would be a good idea to buy, but she's just emailed me saying actually she's heard Compex is much better so I should rent a Compex machine instead? Bit annoyed as I've already ordered it and its been despatched but I can always return if necessary.

Just wondered if anyone has any experience of Compex and could perhaps explain the relative advantages and disadvantages of one over the machine I've ordered?

Thanks!

Bee

[gciriani]

How do you intend to use the machine? Where are you going to place the pads? What type of programs do you intend to use? How long for each session? How many sessions per day?

[veganbee]

Hi and thanks for your reply. Ill be using it pre and post op to stimulate my quads and Vmos whilst doing my regular exercises. I anticipate that'll be 30-45 mins a day pre op and more often depending on my recovery post op. The exercises I'm doing at the moment are wall squats, lunges and basic Vmo training as well as static cycling.

[gciriani]

Muscle stimulation does not necessarily equate to muscle exercise. The pads have to be placed on the correct point, where the neuro-motor plate ha the highest concentration of innervation of the muscle. You need to increase current intensity (milli Amps) so that at least 50% of muscle fibers are contracting. Generally speaking, 20 minutes of proper contractions should be enough. Each contraction between 5 and 8 seconds and rests lasting 3 to 5 times as long, so that the muscle dos not fatigue too much. I'm the US importer of the Globus brand: and in my experience Compex and Globus have enough power, and adequate programs; furthermore other less sophisticated machines, like the one you showed, are not able to deliver the same quality of contraction.

[veganbee]

Hi and thanks for your reply. I'm using the machine under the supervision of my PT so I don't need advice on how to use it thank you. Please could you expand on what you said about 'less sophisticated machines' not having sufficient power and perhaps explain what this means and the ramifications of this?

Thanks!

[gciriani]

As I said, you need a machine that is able to achieve what I  explained before. Most machines in the market are not able to accomplish that, especially obtain the recruitment above 50%, in a comfortable way. On average the issue of comfort is even more pronounced for women, since studies have shown on average a lower pain threshold for them.

I would say that to have a recruitment above 50% in a comfortable manner, one needs a machine capable of delivering a biphasic, symmetrical rectangular waveform, at least 60 mA, with a phase width duration of 400-450 µs, under a load of 2500 Ohm. I find it very rare that physical therapists are knowledgeable enough about EMS.

[greatfulgann]

On average the issue of comfort is even more pronounced for women, since studies have shown on average a lower pain threshold for them.

What studies are you referring to?  Studies I have read say that in general MEN have a lower threshold of pain and in my experience I would say that is true.

Vegan I have an EMPI machine and have been quite satisfied. My insurance paid 100% of the cost.

[veganbee]

gratefulgann thankyou for your reply, just the sort of response I was looking for. Unfortunately I'm having to fight a battle with my insurance company to even pay for my procedure so I won't hold my breath on them coughing up to pay for the e-stim!

gcririani I have absolutely no idea what any of that means. Not helpful at all. And for the record, my pain threshold is far beyond the majority of the people I know - the same I'm sure will go for most of the members of this site given that we have to deal with high levels of pain on a daily basis.

[gciriani]

This is the study I'm referring to:
Maffiuletti NA, Herrero AJ, Jubeau M, Impellizzeri FM, Bizzini M. Differences in Electrical Stimulation Thresholds between Men and Women. Ann Neurol. 2008;63(4):507–12.

The electrical parameters I listed, are what makes an electrical stimulator powerful enough to generate a contraction that is effective. Most machines in the market are just enough to generate sensory, TENS-like feelings, but not enough to generate good muscular contractions. It is also the reason why many patients and PT who try EMS, do not get results.

[gciriani]

I used to think too, that women are more resistant to pain, as a result of evolution, having to give birth. However, for electrical muscle stimulation it seems to be the other way around. I don't know if anybody is interested in the facts observed by this and other studies, but I report verbatim some conclusion:

• Collectively, our data demonstrate higher sensory and supramotor excitability to surface ES in female subjects
  and provide further evidence for a neurophysiological explanation for more pronounced pain perception in women. These
  observations may help clinicians to better understand the sex-specific response to ES and to design more rational stimulation
  treatments with the ultimate goal of optimizing patient care and safety.
• Women reported significantly higher pain scores than men at the motor threshold.

[liThese findings confirm that noxious electrical stimuli are perceived as more painful by healthy women than by healthy men, in line with previous research[/li]
[/list]
I personally found to be able to tolerate a higher current intensity than my wife, and I found my daughter in between me and my wife. This might reflect the higher electrical excitability of men compared to women, because the former have on average proportionately more muscle mass and less adipose mass.*

Note*:
Riley JL 3rd, Robinson ME, Wise EA, et al.
Sex differences in the perception of noxious experimental stimuli: a meta-analysis.
Pain 1998;74:181–187.

[veganbee]

My physio managed to borrow a Compex from another clinic and we had a play on it this morning - we both think it would be beneficial for me to use for a couple of weeks post surgery, but can't seem to find anywhere in the UK that rent them out? Any help?

[gciriani]

Physios who use them often rent them out. So try contacting other physios.

[owen13]

Hi, veganbee

Can u post how you get on, i am using a basic ems machine i got off of ebay and i am thinking of upgrading to a better, stronger machine but i don't know which type to buy. I am using it mainly on my vmo b4 doing exercises and walking up and down my hallway. I am 3 weeks post op LR.

regards
owen

[gciriani]

This site has reviews of two major brands, Globus and Compex>
http://www.strengthpowerspeed.com/category/electrostimulation/

[owen13]

I'm afraid the globus and compex are out of my budget. The neurotrac xl looks about the best i can buy but i am wondering if buying it would be worth it.