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Patella Nightmare Update, With A Twist
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Topic: Patella Nightmare Update, With A Twist (Read 1006 times)
sunflower739375
MICROgeek (<20 posts)
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Patella Nightmare Update, With A Twist
«
on:
June 19, 2012, 02:37:07 PM »
Not too long ago I wrote a post about my Patella problem (perm. cartilage damage under the knee cap and tracking problems) and severe pain and numbness below my knee. As time went on during my therapy my lower leg became number, tighter and the pain has become awful, to the point where I hardly walk on it at all. I also have a muscle bulge about 2 to 3 inches above my ankle that is red and when my therapist saw this he became concerned. He had me do the treadmill for four minutes on the lowest setting and when I came off my leg's diameter grew a half inch. At this point in time he suspected some compartment problems in my leg and called my OS. Today I am seeing my surgeon so he can reexamine my leg and decide what to do next. I am very concerned and to be honest a bit scared. I was wondering if anyone has had this experience? Thanks!
~ Bridget
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Dave258
Regular Poster
Posts: 149
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Re: Patella Nightmare Update, With A Twist
«
Reply #1 on:
June 20, 2012, 11:37:17 PM »
Hi Bridget, sorry to hear about the problems you are having! Did you see your OS, how did it go? Was it a blood clot or something else causing the bulge?
Hope you are doing OK!
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sunflower739375
MICROgeek (<20 posts)
Posts: 8
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Re: Patella Nightmare Update, With A Twist
«
Reply #2 on:
June 21, 2012, 03:35:20 PM »
Hello, Thanks. I actually saw my OS on Tuesday and he diagnosed the lump as a muscle hernia and believes my nerve is trapped in there, hence the tingles, numbness and cold foot. The new question is , how did I do this? He doesn't believe that my little bit of a twist and fall would cause this problem so he is going with chronic compartment syndrome also. I know for sure I need nerve decompression surgery but he is waiting to see my pressure results, before surgery, in case I need a fasciotomy also.
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kcknee
SuperKNEEgeek
Posts: 697
Liked: 1
Re: Patella Nightmare Update, With A Twist
«
Reply #3 on:
June 21, 2012, 05:26:05 PM »
I got compartment syndrome as a complication after ACLr and unfortunately it took years to get the right treatment and I now have permanent muscle damage. Make sure that you get the pressures checked in your leg with the Stryker needle test and not just by what shows up in the MRI. My first fasciotomy was only the anterior compartment because that is where scarring showed in the MRI, unfortunately it was in all four. The test isn't fun, but hurts a lot less than multiple surgeries. If you can have the doctor inject something in deep to numb the area first, it's not that bad. If it not excercise induced (or chronic exertional)and the pressures are high at rest (I never made it to any post-exercise test as my pressures were way too high at rest)then make sure that you do not get a fasciotomy done with a small incision where most of the fasca being cut can not be directly visualized. My 2nd and 3rd fasciotomies both missed the 4th deep posterior compartment and the 2nd missed all the scar tissue. My 4th fasciotomy finally opened all the compartments.
Good luck.
Kristin
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12/31/08 - Skiing injury L knee
6/1/09 - ACL stump removed from joint
8/31/09 - ACLr using Hamstring Graft
12/21/09 - Fasciotomy anterior compartment
8/26/10 - Anterior Interval Release
12/6/10, 5/5/11, 12/22/11 - Fasciotomy of 4 compartments
12/7/12 - Peroneal Nerve Decompression
sunflower739375
MICROgeek (<20 posts)
Posts: 8
Liked: 0
Re: Patella Nightmare Update, With A Twist
«
Reply #4 on:
June 21, 2012, 07:06:50 PM »
Thank you Kristin for your reply and input. May I ask how your leg felt with Compartment Syndrome and if you developed a hernia from it? I only got an MRI of my knee, not my lower leg. My hernia is VERY visible, even without flexing the muscle (it is an 1 1/2 inch oval that sticks out about a half an inch.) My OS is not going to do an MRI of the lower leg and is going straight ahead with the Stryker Test (which he said and I quote "is very unpleasant.) Fun!
Anyways, the reason why I ask about your symptoms is because my OS looks at me like an alien when I try to describe how my leg feels. My symptoms range from extreme pain, tightness, stiffness, achiness, numbness tingling, a ton of pressure (I told him it feels almost as if there is something in my leg trying to bust out) and almost as if my muscles are all twisted inside.
Im sorry to hear that you did not get a diagnosis right away and now have muscle damage. How are your nerves in that region?
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kcknee
SuperKNEEgeek
Posts: 697
Liked: 1
Re: Patella Nightmare Update, With A Twist
«
Reply #5 on:
June 21, 2012, 11:42:16 PM »
Hi-
I hope someone can learn from all the mistakes I made. I have a diary here
http://www.kneeguru.co.uk/KNEEtalk/index.php?topic=50639.0
which has a link on the first page to when I first started getting symptoms after my ACLr. My leg would tingle, go numb, feel like a rock was digging into the muscle at the top of my leg and then extreme pain and cramping, a feeling of the muscle crushing itself, extreme tightness, numbness after any swelling, pins and needles, losing strength in toes. I was never believed either. I never had a muscle hernia. Once the pressures was relieved, I thankfully do not have any painful nerve damage, but several of my muscles show up bright white on an MRI now. They all seem to respond but tire quickly so I'm hoping the muscles will keep slowly recovering since the nerve connections are still there.
I see from your profile that you live in NY. Depending on how far from NYC you live, there is an awesome sport's doctor in Gillette, NJ that makes the Stryker test almost painless. I have had the test a ridiculous amount of times with him and we developed a process where he treats me like a total baby, but it works. He numbs my leg with a spray, injects lidocaine in deep and then tests the pressures in all four compartments from only two holes instead of four. I actually never knew how badly it could hurt until I had to have the test done in at NYU before my last surgery. Let me know if you are close to NJ and I can give you his information.
Kristin
Logged
12/31/08 - Skiing injury L knee
6/1/09 - ACL stump removed from joint
8/31/09 - ACLr using Hamstring Graft
12/21/09 - Fasciotomy anterior compartment
8/26/10 - Anterior Interval Release
12/6/10, 5/5/11, 12/22/11 - Fasciotomy of 4 compartments
12/7/12 - Peroneal Nerve Decompression
sunflower739375
MICROgeek (<20 posts)
Posts: 8
Liked: 0
Re: Patella Nightmare Update, With A Twist
«
Reply #6 on:
June 22, 2012, 06:34:44 PM »
Thank you so much for sharing that post, my story is quite similar to yours. This is my original post:
http://www.kneeguru.co.uk/KNEEtalk/index.php?topic=59643.0
At my first appointment I was told I had tracking problems and a possible meniscus tear. I was told to go to PT while my MRI was being approved and I should start the following week. During the first week in physical therapy my lower leg came into play and I was in unbelievable pain. I let a few weeks pass and I ended up in the ER because I was told I my leg looked suspicious for a blood clot. Thankfully the sonogram was negative but the doctor had not a clue what was going on and told me to contact my OS again. The following day I went back into my OS and told him my leg was in worse pain than my knee and I was almost completely numb and this is when he told me I must have a back problem! At this point in time he had me do this awkward position with my back and asked me if that hurt and when i said "no" (looked perplexed) then "okay lets send you for an MRI of the knee" (never looking at or addressing my lower leg issues) and I left the room!
The MRI showed fraying and softening of the cartilage under my knee cap and severe edema. I was then given a steroid shot and was told to go back to PT and we will see you in 4 to 6 weeks. At this point in time Im beginning to loose confidence that I will ever find a correct diagnosis and went back to PT. When my therapist saw me he asked what my OS said about my symptoms and the lump and I said he pretty much ignored it. This is when he had me walk on the tread mill and my leg grew a 1/2 inch within minutes. He told me to call my OS and when I did I had to speak to his PA who told me and I quote "I hardly believe you have compartment syndrome or nerve problems" and pretty much thought I was nuts. I went back to my PT and he then called my OS himself and I was finally seen. The funny part of it was my OS at first didnt even bother to come in and check on me, he sent his partner in while he was sitting in his office. When his partner clearly saw I had some major issues going on and I needed surgery, he told me he had to get my OS and low and behold he came into my room immediately. At this point in time he announced I needed nerve decompression surgery and a possible fasciotomy and that I was "quite a mystery to him!" I was thinking to myself if you just would have looked at my leg in the previous appointment you would have saw this then! UGH!
At any rate, I appreciate all your comments and help. It seemed like I was the only one who had this weird chain of events. I actually live in the BUffalo area and I will be having my pressure test done at The University of Buffalo but thanks for the input!
PS.. I also wanted to say and I forgot to add, I can not get full extension either and my knee/leg makes a horrible popping sound that is audible across the room!
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kcknee
SuperKNEEgeek
Posts: 697
Liked: 1
Re: Patella Nightmare Update, With A Twist
«
Reply #7 on:
June 23, 2012, 06:50:38 PM »
Good luck with your test. When are you getting it done? Remember to make them test all 4 compartments even if they tell you they are "sure" that it is only the anterior compartment. The extra pain from testing isn't as bad as the repeat surgery pain.
A double dose of Aleve helped keep the pressure pain down in the earlier stages of CS, but Lodine(etodolac) an arthritis drug, worked best to help keep the pain down in the later stages.
If your test does come out positive, do your best to try to get someone to understand that there was a specific incident that caused this and don't let them keep calling it chronic exertional and schedule the minimal incision fasciotomy.
All the inflammation from teh CS caused a lot of scar tissue build up in my leg and knee and I did lose extension too. I also did notice after one fasciotomy, that the pressure in the compartments had not been letting me straighten my knee easily all the way and once it was relieved (fasciotomy) my knee could straighten.
Kristin
Logged
12/31/08 - Skiing injury L knee
6/1/09 - ACL stump removed from joint
8/31/09 - ACLr using Hamstring Graft
12/21/09 - Fasciotomy anterior compartment
8/26/10 - Anterior Interval Release
12/6/10, 5/5/11, 12/22/11 - Fasciotomy of 4 compartments
12/7/12 - Peroneal Nerve Decompression
sunflower739375
MICROgeek (<20 posts)
Posts: 8
Liked: 0
Re: Patella Nightmare Update, With A Twist
«
Reply #8 on:
June 25, 2012, 08:42:02 PM »
Hello. I am getting my test done July 5, apparently not too many places have this equipment and this is the first spot they could get me in.
I also double up on the Aleve but also end up taking 800 mg of Advil two more times a day just so Im not in agony. I know this is probably way too much but they pain is getting pretty unbearable. At first I would find some relief in the morning after not standing on it but now it is swollen and painful all the time. I do not think anyone who has never had this can appreciate how painful this is. I really feel for you that your CS went on for so long.
Did your OS think the scar tissue from your CS may make your pressure go up again in the future? I am so afraid that this will reoccur after Im treated.
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kcknee
SuperKNEEgeek
Posts: 697
Liked: 1
Re: Patella Nightmare Update, With A Twist
«
Reply #9 on:
June 28, 2012, 02:57:00 AM »
Once the pressure gets to a certain point, nothing can help with the pain, I just kept taking the Aleve and Lodine in hopes it might protect my nerves and muscles from the pressures. I was practically begging every doctor I kept getting sent to to please release the pressure, but they were all convinced it had to be something else since I had had fasiotomies or thought I was mistaken about the pain. I even would have pressure readings to hand them and they would still tell me I was wrong.
This last surgery was actually a fasciectomy, where strips if the fascia was removed - described to me that if the two sides were put together it would look like there was an elliptical shape cut out making it harder to scar back together again. The OS told me it looked like no one had ever touched the deep posterior compartment, so now with that opened I have not felt the CS returning. I did have several episodes when my damaged muscles swelled creating an increase in the compartment pressures or I guess a pseudo-compartment syndrome (I have multiple seromas from the last surgery and my muscles are enlarged now so my leg is very tight). I had my pressures tested (so he would believe me that it was increasing pressure) and brought that to the OS and told him what I thought was happening and he just looked at me and agreed to prescribe more Lodine for when the muscles swelled.
What is helping me now is Graston therapy. It has released a lot of the scar tissue in my leg and the largest seroma by my ankle is almost flattened. It's quite painful but is working for me.
Good luck on the 5th. Just a warning, the pressures go way up right after the test for a few days, so be prepared.
Kristin
«
Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 03:00:24 AM by kcknee
»
Logged
12/31/08 - Skiing injury L knee
6/1/09 - ACL stump removed from joint
8/31/09 - ACLr using Hamstring Graft
12/21/09 - Fasciotomy anterior compartment
8/26/10 - Anterior Interval Release
12/6/10, 5/5/11, 12/22/11 - Fasciotomy of 4 compartments
12/7/12 - Peroneal Nerve Decompression
sunflower739375
MICROgeek (<20 posts)
Posts: 8
Liked: 0
Re: Patella Nightmare Update, With A Twist
«
Reply #10 on:
July 06, 2012, 07:23:57 PM »
Well yesterday I went in for my Stryker test and within minutes the person doing the test announced that my orthopedic surgeon only ordered pressure measurements for my Anterior and Lateral compartments of my right and left legs because it is rare to have complications in the Deep posterior and Superficial posterior compartments and his hands were tied.
To no real surprise by me, my anterior and lateral compartments in my right leg were abnormally high at rest so I knew right away I needed a fasciotomy without exercise. What did take me by surprise though was my left leg was at the very highest end of normal at rest too. The administrator of this test is recommending I get both legs done (and is writing this in his report to my OS) because he said if my readings are that high at rest (and I havent been doing anything in months, ie. working, etc.) I am bound to have problems with it in the future. I am right now having a hard time accepting this because he said my OS would do both fasciotomies at once, plus the nerve decompression surgery, which involves releasing a ligament my my ankle. This is a whole lot for me to take in, especially when he told me that it will be at the very least 2 to 3 months of recovery before Im feeling somewhat normal again.
I never heard of seromas, what are they and what does Grayston therapy involve?
Once again thanks for your input and help, I appreciate it!
~ Bridget
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kcknee
SuperKNEEgeek
Posts: 697
Liked: 1
Re: Patella Nightmare Update, With A Twist
«
Reply #11 on:
July 06, 2012, 08:03:18 PM »
I kept checking back in to see if you had your results. No real surprise that it is CS. The symptoms all matched mine.
Before my last surgery I was sent for MRI scans to see if it could detect my CS. I had both legs imaged and then had to go on a treadmill for a while and then back onto the MRI table for more scans. What did come out of the scans is that I have exertional compartment syndrome in both legs. I guess exertional CS is the feeling that I have had since high school track that my shins get really painful and tight and feel like they need to be stretched out after running for awhile. Never though of it as a medical problem and if I don't run, only long hiking would ever bother me but not to the point of ever seeing a doctor. I assume that made me more prone to having problems with compartment pressures when I had the fluid from the swelling over my knee dump into the already too tight compartments in my leg. I might try Graston on my right(good) leg at some point.
A seroma is a complication I had after this last surgery. It is not common. Definition from Wikipedia
"is a pocket of clear serous fluid that sometimes develops in the body after surgery. When small blood vessels are ruptured, blood plasma can seep out; inflammation caused by dying injured cells also contributes to the fluid. Seromas are different from hematomas, which contain red blood cells, and from abscesses, which contain pus and result from an infection."
I am hoping that these seromas will actually end up helping me. My muscles enlarged during this past year trying to survive under the pressures and the surgeons were unsure if they would be able to close the incisions, but they did force them closed. There had been even talk about putting spacers in my leg to try to stretch out the skin prior to a fasciotomy. As the chiropractor is getting these seromas to resolve, my leg is now looser since they have worked as spacers to stretch out my skin. Here is a link to information on Graston.
http://grastontechnique.com/
I'm not sure scientifically how it works, but it is working for me.
I never had nerve decompression surgery, but I know during at least 3 of the 4 fasciotomies, I had to have my nerve released from where it was entrapped in scar tissue. When you see your OS, stress to him that your current CS did not result from a change in training or exercise and came from an incident. I never could get any of my operating surgeons to listen, but I hope yours will and will do the surgery as if it were acute and not exertional. Ask again about testing the other compartments prior to surgery.
Here is a link is to a board for runners with exertional compartment syndrome, but there is a lot of information and experiences of fasciotomies and recoveries there.
http://www.runnersworld.com/community/forums/injury-prevention/injuries/recovery-comparment-syndrome-surgery/.0
Kristin
«
Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 02:40:31 PM by kcknee
»
Logged
12/31/08 - Skiing injury L knee
6/1/09 - ACL stump removed from joint
8/31/09 - ACLr using Hamstring Graft
12/21/09 - Fasciotomy anterior compartment
8/26/10 - Anterior Interval Release
12/6/10, 5/5/11, 12/22/11 - Fasciotomy of 4 compartments
12/7/12 - Peroneal Nerve Decompression
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Patella Nightmare Update, With A Twist
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