Is ASTYM available in the UK/Europe?

[Nobbly-knee]

Hi, several people have raved about this treatment for scar tissue.  I see that it's provided by some specialists in the US but has anyone seen it offered this side of the Atlantic?

[starpolisher]

I suggest you go to the website: www.astym.com and find the link that allows you to write them a message and ask them.  I have asked them several questions and in both cases received answers the very next day.  That's your best bet!  Good luck!

[mouk786]

It looks very similar to Graston. Well they both involve oiling up the skin and then using tools to work the scar tissue.

For graston - in my opinion it may help with small amounts of scarring where the scarrign is near the surface but it wasnt much use to my scar tissue which is quite thick and goes fairly deep.

I did 1 session of graston and the guy showed me a way of doing it at home with the end of a metal spoon - it is fairly straight forward.

I think it could be useful in the early stages to work the tissue but if you have scarring bad then I am sceptical.

[Nobbly-knee]

Thanks both.  My scar tissue seems to be near the surface so graston might work.  I'm going to speak to an OS about this and shockwave therapy.

Will follow up on here...

[starpolisher]

Graston is very different from Astym.  Have any of you who are posting this information REALLY read all the links on the Astym site?  Astym is a gentler form of Graston but gradually breaks down scar tissue.  I had SEVERE Arthrofibrosis in both knees from a double TKR, a 2nd surgery (changed hospitals and surgeons at this point) which involved replacing an oversized spacer in left knee, removal of scar tissue from left knee, and MUA on right knee.  Surgeries 3 and 4 were in 2008, 5 months apart and surgeon took out implants and gave me revisions since blood work showed sensitivity to cement.  We were hoping the scar tissue would not come back.  I always went to rehab hospitals after every surgery and then outpatient PT......non-stop as well as home exercises.  Once I even had a CPM for a year at home.  I also had an Elite Seat I used for almost 2 years.  My knees were loaded with scar tissue in spite of all of this.  I was disabled with pain, on quite a bit of morphine and very miserable.  Astym provided relief so quickly from pain I could hardly believe it.  I had my first treatment this past May.  For 6 years I was in misery.  I am posting this information to help anyone who is trying to live with this crippling condition.  I am one of YOU.  A spoon?  You can wind up doing far more damage to your knee than you think!  How do you know where your implants are?  Where is your scar tissue?  Therapists require extensive training to use Astym and Graston.  I GOT MY LIFE BACK!  I just find it frustrating to post what I consider to be a miracle in pain relief and the ability to walk so much better and read posts like this.  Of course there are OS's who refuse to have their patients try this therapy.  It was developed by a Dr. Sevier in Muncie, Indiana who has devoted a lot of time perfecting this method.  I did see other OS's with wonderful reputations but they weren't able to help me.  I honestly believe they have no idea how painful AF is.  I realize it's not in many places, but there are a number of therapists in the U.S. who are certified in Astym.  I even read one post where someone complained about driving 45 minutes to the closest therapist!  I used to ride (my husband had to drive) an hour and a half ONE WAY for my therapy in Indiana!  We did this for almost a year!  Fortunately I have an Astym therapist in the town where I live and go once per week.  I realize living in Indiana, there are more therapists trained in astym here but at least check to see where the closest therapist is.  If people are willing to fly to another state to talk to a noted OS, I don't see what the problem is re looking into Astym.  And please don't take it upon yourself to do it yourself!  You'll ruin your knee!  Home exercises go hand in hand with Astym treatments as well as drinking a lot of fluids. 

[starpolisher]

Mouk.....I wanted to add: my surgeon at Hospital for Special Surgery in NYC said he'd never seen so much scar tissue in his life when he removed my implants and put in revisions.  Mine is also very deep and thick.  My last surgery was 2008 and my Astym started in 2011 of May.  I had a lot of scar tissue wrapped around my knees and above and below knees.  Astym or Grason cannot break down the AF in the joint itself.....my knees are stiff but my rom is improving ..... not as dramatically as the pain relief, but the pain was so crippling, it was hard to enjoy life. 

[Decruz]

Hi, several people have raved about this treatment for scar tissue.  I see that it's provided by some specialists in the US but has anyone seen it offered this side of the Atlantic?

A thing I actually don't like of this bullettin, with all the due respect to everybody, is when someone asks a question and no one on the replying posts contains the answer to the question and moreover the discussion suddenly goes in another direction utterly ignoring the thread title/main question.
The user Nobbly-knee asked if Astym is available in Europe: the answer is sadly NO.
I contacted myself them, not only isn't availble but they've no plan on making it available here (I'm located in Europe too) in the future.
Basically a physical therapist from EU should certify him/herself going in US and following one of their certificating courses (http://astym.com/professionals/certification.asp) that last 1 or 2 days - but looks like no PTs in Europe even thinks about doing it (I find it ridicolous, if I was a PT I'd keep myself updated and them once a year I'd certify myself in something new that's actually working to offer it to my patients and to keep up my resume) - not to mention PTs work in PT facilities so they shouldn't go by themself but maybe sent by their PT dept. in order to get a certified PT in their team and then beeing able to offer this tecnique as 1st PT facility all across Europe....but again, no one is even thinking about doing it - what a bunch of non-looking ahead people!

For the records, if Astym was available whatsoever in Europe I'd travel there to try it, and I'm not alone as other people are asking about it after hearing about the starpolisher's good outcome

[starpolisher]

I felt going to the Astym website and emailing them and asking them was the very best response.  I have no idea what their plans are and if they are contemplating introducing it in Europe.  I didn't want to guess and mislead anyone!  I don't live in Europe.  I feel terrible that it's not available in Europe.  I know there are apparently a number of areas in the US where there are no therapists and yet it is good for a number of common Ortho. problems!  My guess now is the economy being as bad as it is in the U.S. (and Obama has made a mess of our healthcare and no one seems to know which direction it's going other than most don't want it).....so I feel fear of will it really pay off....will insurance cover it.....all of these are issues and they pertain to other procedures as well. His poll numbers are pretty poor and this could very easily change with the new election.  So while it's sad that someone in Europe won't learn the technique (yet).....it's very sad that so many people can't have it here.  It does require a number of visits...and they recommend only one treatment per week.  I've had 16 treatments so far but I can tell I am close to plateauing.  Still I didn't have much of a life at all and am doing so much better.  What is sad is people would have to travel to a place in the U.S. and stay for some time.  Although I think that even having 10 treatments is worth the pain relief.  Honestly I so hope that you will be able to have it available in Europe.  I hope that someone from Astym (and I will bring this up with my PT as well as write the OS who invented it) will go to Europe and offer courses at a central location for a number of therapists.  They, in turn could teach others therapists.  I will ask if this is feasible....I promise.  Anyone with AF and not able to have this treatment is tragic I feel!  It works for tennis elbow, carpal tunnel, tendonitis, plantar fascitis and many other problems that people commonly get so there is a real market for it.  It could be that because it's rather new here and my first OS in Indiana (where the doctor who developed it is located) NEVER ONCE suggested I have this treatment... never mentioned it.  A friend told me about how much it helped her!  I know AF is not common, but I will certainly, when my treatment is done, write a blog on the Astym site about how much it's helped me. 

[Decruz]

...Obama has made a mess of our healthcare and no one seems to know which direction it's going other than most don't want it...

This is off-topic and I'm sorry for it but I feel it's needed:
for the record (and please note I was a patient in US so I very well know the US "deviated" health care system) Obama just tried to do the only right thing that all the americans from the middle class above didn't even want to talk about: give every human beeing living in US a free health care system, as should be in the entire world and as it is across Europe.
If someone still don't get it just watch the Michael Moore's movie "Sicko" and start realizing how much Obama's ideas about health care US system were and still are desperately needed.
His initial idea was sadly stopped by the congress so he had to adjust and re-size it, so whatever mess is going through the US system now is due to this forced adjusted idea - anyway whatever mess it is, is worthed: the target is right, giving everybody health care assistance no matter if they've a job or don't have a penny in their pockets.
Whoever thinks diffently is, IMHO, a far cry from beeing a person to pay respect to.
Bye

[missmyknee]

Decruz, that is a very hot topic and should go no further in discussion.  Kneeguru will lock the thread if it does. If you want to be helpful, why don't you try to get PTs trained in Astym, in Europe.

Pam

[Decruz]

I agree with you, in fact I'd not go over, just wanted to say what I say.

About Astym: I'm not a "talker", I already tried to talk with PT facility manager and PTs, but, as I said, they came out as no more than a bunch of non-looking ahead people.

[missmyknee]

Perhaps if you contacted the Astym company ( don't know if you would call it that) and have them send informative materials, like they would do to a PT dept in the U.S, to your PT dept. Maybe after reading about it and having actual materials about it, they might become interested. Astym could send a representative over to train one of them.

Just a thought...........

Pam

[Decruz]

Perhaps if you contacted the Astym company ( don't know if you would call it that) and have them send informative materials, like they would do to a PT dept in the U.S, to your PT dept. Maybe after reading about it and having actual materials about it, they might become interested. Astym could send a representative over to train one of them.

Just a thought...........

Pam

Pam,
I already did it in June/July, the thing is, as I posted, too many people are non-looking ahead people.
It seems far to be know in Europe, no potential patients as the patients too don't know ASTYM in Europe, so they "blindly" think is not worthed spending money and sending a PT to get a certification in US...

Please check the new thread I just opened about ASTYM in Europe (for who is interested): http://www.kneeguru.co.uk/KNEEtalk/index.php?topic=57405.0 - the road I'm indicating is finding a PT interested in becoming certified going in US or even better convince Astym in sending a representative wherever in Europe to make 1 certification course (they last 1-2 days only!) once all the patients actually needing a PT certified in their european locations find one or more PT's interested in getting the Astym certification on the European soil (much less expensive).
It's not so difficult guys!
I already contacted Astym to get the real cost of the certification's courses in order to understand with them the minumun number of partecipants to actually set up in the near future a certification course in a main city in Europe like air companies' hub cities to easily land in coming from the US (like London, Dusseldorf, Munich, Milan, Rome, Paris, Madrid, etc.).

Thank you - bye

[starpolisher]

Thank you Pam. 

[Decruz]

Astym certification cost: $5000, who certifies has to certify in both upper/lower extremities (3 days in total), they certify physical therapists, physical therapist assistants and athletic trainers.
This said, they're not even thinking about coming in Europe to make a certification course session - no comment about that.
Bye