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Author Topic: CRPS 2 diagnose in infrapatellar nerve branch  (Read 4413 times)

Offline JuhaH

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CRPS 2 diagnose in infrapatellar nerve branch
« on: January 09, 2011, 02:23:30 PM »
Hi,

Has anyone had or been diagnosed with CRPS 2 (Complex regional pain syndrome) in infrapatellar nerve damage? I have been suffering from severe pain, after my medial meniscectomy arthroscopy in January 2010. Pain has been increasing last 6 months and I have been immobilized most of the time. Due to the pain it has been impossible to walk or sleep.

2 weeks ago I went to the new MRI-pictures and radiologist and physiatrist found out that I have advanced CRPS 2 nerve damage. Fysiatrist diagnosed that CRPS 2 was now in infrapatellar nerve branch and it's spreading to saphaneus nerve.

My doctor prescribed daily dosage: Lyrica 600mg (Pregabalin), Cymbalta 60mg (Duloxetine) and Triptyl 10g (Amitriptyline), Lidoderm 700mg (Lidocaine). Meds are lowering somewhat nerve pain, but its still difficult to sleep due to the chronic pain.
Any information about treatments against this horrible disease is welcome. I have been reading clinical studies about CRPS II, and it seems almost impossible to cure symptom less from CRPS II.

Thanks in advance and cood luck  :)

Saphaneus nerve



Infrapatellar nerve

« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 11:31:58 AM by JuhaH »
B.r. Juha,
Skiing accident in january 2010. Left knee, medial joint space narrowing and constant pain following partial meniscectomy (20% medial meniscus left). Trying to prolong the knee replacement as long as I can.

Offline Rennschnecke

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Re: CRPS 2 diagnose in infrapatellar nerve branch
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2011, 03:57:37 PM »
Firstly, I am so sorry that you have been diagnosed with CRPS.  It's truly a horrible condition and if caught late there is no cure just control.  However, opinions seem to differ about this.

I was suspected of having CRPS but didn't believe I had it so I researched this for a while in order to make my case.  In the end none of the Pain Consultants I saw thought I had CRPS, but because the pain was persisting at a level that was unexpected I was offered a number of approaches to pain management. 

One consultant prescribed lidocaine plasters for topical pain, another set me up with a list of medications I could request for my 'pain management cabinet'.  This included morphine sulphate to be taken for breakthrough pain.  Another consultant set me up with pain patches (e.g. Duragesic).  This is an opiate-based medication that is released continuously at a set dose for up to 3 days.  This was fantastic and I felt liberated from the regime of ensuring I was taking meds on time.  Yet another consultant offered me a guanethidine block if nothing else was working.  This is meant to help reset the pain feedback loop and there are other nerve blocks you may have.  My newest consultant (BTW, if you're counting I'm now on No. 5) is also referring me on to the Pain Clinic which is run jointly by a psychologist and physiotherapist for one-to-one and group sessions.

I don't know what stage of CRPS you are at.  If it is one of the early stages then if you get appropriate treatment then you may get complete relief from pain, but if it is later then you may find you need to be on medications long-term.  Since you also have clear nerve damage then it would be appropriate to ask whether there might be any options that help to correct for the nerve damage.

One alternative treatment option to look into might be SCENAR.  This is a Russian-based electrotherapy (developed from their space research technology) which is non-invasive and is somewhat akin to interferential combined with acupuncture treatments.  The system has been widely used in Russia but has been released elsewhere since around 2000.  There are some medical research programmes in the US looking at the efficacy of this.  There are certainly some astounding testimonies about this treatment, e.g. one English rugby player had his career finished by a back injury and could barely stand or walk for pain.  Treatments with SCENAR not only enabled him to return to walking but he also got back to running and returned to rugby as a coach.

Anyway, I am really very sorry you're in this position.  I hope that you can explore some of the options around for pain management and find something that can help you.

Best wishes
1/05 Ski accident: 5/05 ACLr LK; 10/06 Scope – debridement, trochlear cartilage lesion (Gr4); 12/08 Scope – chondroplasty, hematoma; 5 & 6/09 MACI patella & trochlea 'kissing lesions', ROM 0 to 80; 9/09 Scope – LOA, IPCS & patella infera; 9/10 Scope – AIR & LR.

Offline missmyknee

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Re: CRPS 2 diagnose in infrapatellar nerve branch
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2011, 08:37:00 PM »
Hi

I'm so sorry to hear about your nerve pain. I don't have CPRS but I do have many recurring neuromas (more than 10) in my knee particularly on the medial side in the IPN and Saphenous nerve. I have pain that goes all the way down the the medial lower leg/ankle and across the top of the foot. I've had this since 2007. I am also on 7 meds from pain management. They are gabapentin, cymbalta,clonidine,celebrex, percoset,lidoderm patch,voltarin gel and,flexeril. I can't take amitriptyaline because of a heart rythym problem.

I am curious, how does CPRS show up on an MRI ? Have you had any nerve blocks directly to the IPN? I ask because maybe you have some neuromas on the nerve from the surgery. A nerve block directly to the nerve that provides immediate relief is how this is diagnosed. I've had surgery twice, monthly nerve blocks in the knee and recently had 2 rounds of cryo-ablation. I'm running out of options, My PM doc says the pain down my leg will probably be there the rest of my life. He is suggesting a spinal cord stimulator.

I was referred to a world reknown peripheral nerve surgeon in Baltimore, His name is Dr A. Lee Dellon of the Dellon Institute of Peripheral Nerve Surgery.      www.dellon.com      You can email him about your plight. He does an excellent job of answering back. I had surgery once with him where he did 8 procedures thru 4 incisions. I will see him again before I resort having a spinal chord stimulator He knows his stuff ! Here is an article he wrote

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2649919/

Here is handbook on intractable pain. I found it to be very helpful.

http://pain-topics.org/pdf/IntractablePainSurvival.pdf

Pam
« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 09:19:41 PM by missmyknee »
4Fx Clsd red
IMrod fib plate
derotate osteotmy tibfib
AF
IPCS patbaja
DeLeeOsteotmy,LOA,LR Zplasty,bongrf,chondrplty
chondrplty,LOA,fatpad remvd
TKR
openLOA,neurectmy,ITB Zplasty,fabela
PLC recon,revison,LOA,synovec
MCL,revison LOA
openLOA,prox Zplasty
openLOA, 6 neuromas excised,synov
3 Fusions

Offline JuhaH

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Re: CRPS 2 diagnose in infrapatellar nerve branch
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2011, 12:28:16 PM »
Hi,

My doctor (pain specialist) is now telling me that I have some sort of neuropathic pain, caused by nerve damage inside my knee joint. So the problem is not saphaneus or infrapatellar nerve, but nerve damage in soft tissue, inside the knee joint. Precise location of nerve damage is for the present unclear, because doctors don't have small enough ENMG equipment to put inside the knee joint.

I'm now discussing with ortho surgeon about another arthroscope as soon as possible. Hopefully second scope will point out location of nerve damage.

Pam, check out this article about a comparison of diagnostic methods in CRPS.

As MRI allows to visualize the structure of soft tissue and bone with a high resolution, it has become an important tool in diagnosing various disorders of hand and wrist. Hence several authors suggested its application for diagnosing CRPS I. MRI examination in CRPS I patients revealed a variety of findings that change during the course of the disease in a characteristic manner. Skin thickening and bone signal intensity changes in carpal and metacarpal bones as well as effusions of adjacent joints are strongly related to the acute and early phase of CRPS I.
B.r. Juha,
Skiing accident in january 2010. Left knee, medial joint space narrowing and constant pain following partial meniscectomy (20% medial meniscus left). Trying to prolong the knee replacement as long as I can.

Offline missmyknee

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Re: CRPS 2 diagnose in infrapatellar nerve branch
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2011, 08:40:21 PM »
Hi

Thanks for the link on the imaging for CPRS. It was informative.

The saphenous and IPN have many branches that have very small nerves in the tissues. There are several other nerves that go about the knee that have branches.

Dr Dellon is a world reknown peripheral nerve surgeon. He knows all the nerves some of which are not even listed in textbooks. He has done some very successful surgical techniques on diabetic patients decompressing nerves in the legs, ending the hopeless neuropathy they were suffering from.

Here is what he did to me:
Neurolysis of the sciatic nerve, common and peroneal nerve at the knee, denervation of the proximal tibiofibular joint, neurolysis of the superficial peroneal nerve, fasciotomy of the anterolateral compartments of the leg ( for compartment syndrome of the left anterior and lateral compartments), resection of the deep peroneal nerve, resection of the saphenous nerve in the thigh and implantation of the nerve into the adductor muscle group, resection of the medial cutaneous nerve of the thigh and implantation if the nerve into the vastus medialis, resection neuroma of the medial retinacular nerve and implantation of the nerve into the vastus medialis and denervating the sinus tarsi. I still have more work to be done to the saphenous nerve and cuneal nerve which is a lower branch of the saphenous.

Here is his website   www.dellon.com    It would be nice to know that a nerve decompression could help a patient instead of a diagnosis of CPRS. Some of the people in his testimonial section had RSD and he was able to help them. Here is a link to some of the free booklets he has on his website

http://www.dellon.com/content/view/13/27/

Since I live in the middle of the country and Dr Dellon is in Baltimore, it is hard to get back to see him right now. My PM Dr recently performed Cry-ablation, in two sessions, to many neuromas in my knee, in the interim.

Pam
4Fx Clsd red
IMrod fib plate
derotate osteotmy tibfib
AF
IPCS patbaja
DeLeeOsteotmy,LOA,LR Zplasty,bongrf,chondrplty
chondrplty,LOA,fatpad remvd
TKR
openLOA,neurectmy,ITB Zplasty,fabela
PLC recon,revison,LOA,synovec
MCL,revison LOA
openLOA,prox Zplasty
openLOA, 6 neuromas excised,synov
3 Fusions

Offline notsciatica

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Re: CRPS 2 diagnose in infrapatellar nerve branch
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2011, 07:58:21 PM »
Sounds like your CRPS2 is spreading fast.   That is because the drugs you listed do not include an opiate.  There is a lot of fear mongering out there about opiates.  Of course they are addictive if you use them to get high.  We are talking about pain relief, here.  I do not have the same nerve damaged as you, but I do have a nerve damaged like you that is affected by the normal movement of the leg.  I have had this injury for over 25 years, and it began spreading about 15 years ago.  I was in a lot of pain prior to that, but the doctors felt since they could find nothing with MRI it was all in my head.  Finally I got a doctor who knew what they were doing and understood what I was explaining about the pain spreading.  Started me on morphine sulfate timed release (ms contin) and my life has been livable again.  DOn't believe all the anti opiate hysteria.  Morphine is the gold standard for pain relief.  All other opiates just do not cut it.  Morphine is very special in that if you have severe pain it effects the pain and little else.  MY head is clear and my sex life is better and I can exercise again.  But most importantly, it has slowed down the spread of CRPS2 dramatically.  In the last 10 years i have been on the MS contin I have only seen some minor spread.  I suggest you look for an article on the internet from Practical Pain Management on Howard Hughes as it is very informative about CRPS and opiates.