Centeno-Schultz clinic visit

[Kaputt_Knee]

Scooter72,

They came here because it has the name of the clinic is in the title! The other thread, where they were posting has been locked so the arguments did not reach a stage where litigation might have been arisen. So they come here to spread their poison.

How is your treatment coming along, any more updates on what you can/can not do yet? If I remember correctly, you have not yet had all the treatments. Is that correct?  How many more treatments do you have to receive before you have finished the treatment?

Sue 

PS I like your idea of a paid shill, fits perfectly! 

[manville]

I cant even justify this comment due to its bias.  "Moaning", That is very antagonistic is its measure.

Manville

Am I right in making the assumption that you are moaning about $200? Is that the amount you're upset about? You had an evaluation that cost $200 and then during that eval discovered that the procedure was going to be more expensive that you'd originally planned?

Please let us all know the actual amount of money you feel you are out of pocket by? Then we can all understand the financial grief you are suffering from?

Thanks.

[fastglycolytic]

Manville

In one of your other posts you mentioned you were going to be doing a consult with a Dr. that has been getting positive results with stem cells. I would be interested in learning his or her name. If I give you my email will send me the name?

[manville]

Good grief, why is this crap being discussed in my diary thread? Lol.. I must be a magnet for crazy people (who are POSSIBLY pharma/industry paid shills with some degree of legal expertise). 

Manville, you remind me of a couple of other shills that were invading my threads a few months ago, and share a trait with them: You all have a bit of scientific knowledge, that to the casual reader, comes off as "well-read" or "expert".  It's a common tactic, I have noticed, for those morons who also like to tout the absolute beneficence of the FDA, and by definition, it's regulations.

Please start your own thread, and whine about the extra few-hundred dollars you had to pay for a procedure that is minumum, $5000.  Yes, they forget to include all costs in the initial correspondence, and yes it irritated me (and others), but unfortunately, it's something that will only be rectified by complaining TO REGENEXX. 

Of course, that was only a platform for you to launch into more dubious criticisms of the Regenexx procedure.  It's obvious that your knowledge of stem cells is deficient, or you are just flat-out misrepresenting the truth to serve some other agenda. 

The other doctor and procedure was $2200 and includes a more advanced PRP, a Fat Graft, and Bone Marrow.  Even noting the incredible difference in price, the point of my issue with Regenexx was the treatment by the staff and the outright lies on the prices of things before they hook you into the procedure.  When I get a free minute, i'm more then happy to recap my experience with Regenexx in this thread.  They may in fact be the greatest thing in the world, but people who dispute me in this forum are so quick to overlook my actual issues with them.  Spend your money how you see fit, it doesn't make a difference to me.  I'm posting an experience with a company because I feel compelled on how I was treated.

[manville]

Manville

In one of your other posts you mentioned you were going to be doing a consult with a Dr. that has been getting positive results with stem cells. I would be interested in learning his or her name. If I give you my email will send me the name?

Check back with me in 2 weeks.  I really dont want to promote a doctor that I cant actually verify real results with. 

[Scooter72]

Yes Manville, you were complaining about the hidden costs, but you also interjected opinion on the procedure itself by using their conflict with the FDA as an indictment of sorts.  Don't act as if you weren't doing this.  And I quote you:

"There are also a lot of "studies" that they put out there, without any real medical credibility, other then in a blog and some things they say. (minus the two studies regarding safety).  There are also some issues with culturing cells, as shown by outside the lines, and the ability for those sells to grow out of control.  The doctor I talked to said this was a big problem, and thats why the FDA shut this down. "

1) The doctor you spoke with is just that.. a doctor.  Not a scientist.  Just someone with an MD.  Regenexx has scientists on their staff, and has been working for years doing translational research. 
2) Your doctor is somewhat wrong.  I've worked with immortalized mammalian cell lines before, and I know almost exactly what Regenexx did when they were expanding stem cell populations; this risk is minimal, in my opinion (and likely that of any other molecular biologist who is neutral, and worth their degree). Sure, if they were passing the cells many times it's a different story, but my impression is that Regenexx was not doing so.
3) What the hell are you talking about, saying that their studies have no "real medical credibility"?  Are you joking? So clinical results have no relevance?  Other basic science AND clinical research that supports their work, has no meaning?  Helllloooo.. are you daft?

Kapput knee, I am doing fine.  Still playing football 2-3x/week. I do not plan to have more treatments in the near future.

[mccartjt]

I cant even justify this comment due to its bias.  "Moaning", That is very antagonistic is its measure.


Quote from: mccartjt on February 05, 2012, 08:46:56 PM

Manville

Am I right in making the assumption that you are moaning about $200? Is that the amount you're upset about? You had an evaluation that cost $200 and then during that eval discovered that the procedure was going to be more expensive that you'd originally planned?

Please let us all know the actual amount of money you feel you are out of pocket by? Then we can all understand the financial grief you are suffering from?

Thanks.

Manville

Lets be absolutely clear. You had paid $200 evaluation fee, some point after which you discovered the pricing errors that the Regenexx clinic had given you? Is this a correct in reading your blogs?

After discovery of the true cost you then had the option to bail out and not take any further treatments. There was no bias in my original question. There however a bias in your refusal to answer my question.

How much money are you now out of pocket?

[manville]

Id like to check back on how my therapy is going.  Its been a little over 2 weeks since I had therapy on my shoulder.  The first 10 days I saw little improvement but a lot of stiffness in the joint.  Then 5 days ago, I started to see some improvement, as a light switch was turned on.  There has been daily soreness, but I was told if there is soreness but not to the point of pain, then healing is taking place.  My labrum is torn and my rotator cuff muscle has a tear that healed initially with scar tissue.  So for the sake of argument, the labrum is the real issue here. 

Im just as skeptical as you are, but labrum surgery is only 50% effective over the long run.  In the 2.5 weeks since the procedure, I have seen less clicking in one area and more in another(without pain).  In the area that has more clicking, before it would just sublax, but now it allows for movement.  It seems that the healing has begun, and as regenexx and my doctor both have said, between 2 weeks and 3 months is when you will see some results.  Its a positive sign, but I also have to put in a lot of PT, a lot of massages and rolfing, and a lot of cardio activity to keep the cells activated, along with infrared sauna.  I am obsessive compulsive about this, as ive been told.  Also the supplements that I am taking, you would think I was a NFLer, up to 30 pills a day.  Im scheduled for a round of PRP in about a week or so to keep the healing process smooth.  The PRP is activated, and not like a normal PRP would be.  I'm not ready to disclose my doctor yet.  I need to see some real results on the playing field(i'm also an athlete).

About Regenexx.  My problem with regenexx has been discussed in the other forum.  The main points are. 1. They lie about pricing and hide details deep in their packets until they hook you. 2. They back up their results without any real evidence and call it fact(A lot of this science is so new its guesswork)(IE, not using NSAIDS?  My doctor says that the latest research points to this being a non factor.) 3. They are not using the latest technology.  4. (in my opinion) They are more concerned with you paying them to fund their testing and their clinic, as well as their battle against the FDA, then they are about helping and treating the patient.  Which is why their procedure is 3x more expensive then my doctor.  It is also why they run their business like a factory, and I personally don't want to be a number.  I want to be a patient.  I also understand the business side of things as a CEO myself, so I see how they are oiling the machine. 

Now these may just be my issues, and not yours.  So that is why we all are free to make our own choices.  Im just adding comments to help you make an informed choice.

I might start my own thread here or blog on the recovery process.  Honestly Ill be extremely pleased if I have a full recovery from this terrible condition

[NickCat11]

Manville,

I too have an issue with my shoulder, a large cartilage defect on my humeral head. I am treating it with stem cell therapy as well. I noticed the same things you did after the first couple weeks (less clicking, pain improvement, and function). For me, and like your doctor mentioned, the results leveled out at around 3 months. It's a no brainer for me to go through with another treatment. I won't bother getting an MRI to see if cartilage is growing back for at least a year or more. I'm strictly going on pain and function improvement. Good luck with your recovery and keep us updated.

Nick

[mccartjt]

Manville

I asked a simple question, how much were you out of pocket. Your response was to ignore my question!

I therefore thank you, having helped answer my original simple question!  It can't have been a massive amount of money you are out of pocket,  or you'd have since told us.

Will you now answer how much you are out of pocket?

[manville]

Manville

I asked a simple question, how much were you out of pocket. Your response was to ignore my question!

I therefore thank you, having helped answer my original simple question!  It can't have been a massive amount of money you are out of pocket,  or you'd have since told us.

Will you now answer how much you are out of pocket?

I didn't find that important since it was overlooked.  I am out of pocket 200 dollars, but whats the difference?  I am also out of pocket 2 months while scheduling with these clinics, only to actually find out all the details 2 weeks before finalizing the date.  In the 6 weeks prior, none of these hidden fees were discussed.  But equating or relating an out of pocket cost to my experience with regenexx does not give for causation.

[manville]

Manville,

I too have an issue with my shoulder, a large cartilage defect on my humeral head. I am treating it with stem cell therapy as well. I noticed the same things you did after the first couple weeks (less clicking, pain improvement, and function). For me, and like your doctor mentioned, the results leveled out at around 3 months. It's a no brainer for me to go through with another treatment. I won't bother getting an MRI to see if cartilage is growing back for at least a year or more. I'm strictly going on pain and function improvement. Good luck with your recovery and keep us updated.

Nick

That's great news.  Why would you need a 2nd treatment?  Do you not feel the effects of this through one round?   I was told two rounds of PRP will work just as well afterwords.

[NickCat11]

I was told by my doctor that due to the size of my lesion that one treatment of stem cells would not be sufficient. I plan on getting the procedure done every 6 months as long as there is decent progress each time. The cost is reasonable so that is not an issue. Like I mentioned before, if progress continues I'll probably get an MRI next year to see if there is any cartilage growth.

[manville]

I was told by my doctor that due to the size of my lesion that one treatment of stem cells would not be sufficient. I plan on getting the procedure done every 6 months as long as there is decent progress each time. The cost is reasonable so that is not an issue. Like I mentioned before, if progress continues I'll probably get an MRI next year to see if there is any cartilage growth.

Ahh.  Did you have follow up PRP?

[NickCat11]

I was told by my doctor that due to the size of my lesion that one treatment of stem cells would not be sufficient. I plan on getting the procedure done every 6 months as long as there is decent progress each time. The cost is reasonable so that is not an issue. Like I mentioned before, if progress continues I'll probably get an MRI next year to see if there is any cartilage growth.

Ahh.  Did you have follow up PRP?

Yes, exactly a week after the stem cell procedure.