Centeno-Schultz clinic visit

[Scooter72]

When you are told that you are not supposed to stress the knee for 6 weeks, does this mean that we should also not be doing physiotherapy? Anytime I stop physio for even a few days, my muscle wastage becomes stronger, which means more pressure on the knee when I walk.

Correct, no physiotherapy, or any stressful actions for at least 6 weeks.  As for muscle wasting, I understand your dilemna, but at the same time, I am suprised your muscle noticeably wastes in a "few days".  Then again, everyone is different.

[WestPoint]

Thanks Scooter,

Well, what I find is that I start to limp within a few days of leaving off the physio. Perhaps that's a better way to describe it.

By the way, would you consider walking up flights of stairs the type of activity that should be avoided?

[rob wilson]

I would recommend walking or stationary biking or swimming (crawl type).

[Scooter72]

Thanks Scooter,

Well, what I find is that I start to limp within a few days of leaving off the physio. Perhaps that's a better way to describe it.

By the way, would you consider walking up flights of stairs the type of activity that should be avoided?

Going up a flight of stairs is a tricky thing, in my novice opinion. The reason is due to individual differences, and the stairs themselves.  If the stairs are shallow enough, then probably no big deal to take them one-by-one.  However, steeper stairs I personally avoided for the first three weeks, and took the elevator.

[Sturge08]

Hi Dg, I am write in thinking you will organise an MRI of your knee to find out if any regeneration has occurred in your knee?

[Scooter72]

Just a quick update.  I am now 2 months post stem-cell injection.  I have been playing football (soccer) in the past week.  After three games, I feel fine.  The knee is sore and somewhat weak, but there is no jabbing pain when the defect lies. 

As a caveat: At this point, this means nothing with respect to long-term relief.  If after another two months, the knee feels the same way, or even has just a "bit" (subjectively speaking) of pain, then I will consider the procedure a success, and go in for another round to hopefully finish the deal.  However, at that time, if I feel the same pain as before the procedure, I will think twice about going in for another MSC injection. 

[crumpet]

Scooter:

Fair enough. Appreciate the update and your thoughtfulness in trying to determine whether further procedure is warranted.

~C:) 

[fastglycolytic]

I read the following on the website of The Institute of Regenerative & Molecular Orthopedics located in Boca Raton, Florida (http://www.stemcellorthopedic.com/index.html).

There are some centers, which recommend taking the stem cells from the bone marrow and growing them in a laboratory and then injecting them back into a patient. This process posses some significant problems. There are studies, which suggest that once the stem cells are manipulated outside the body they lose their effectiveness. Furthermore, there is a suggestion that by reproducing these cells outside the body the genetic makeup of the cells may be altered leading to any number of significant problems. Among other factors, it is believed that the telomeres, or ends of the DNA strands, may be significantly altered. The FDA is currently taking a very hard look at these cells grown in a lab due to these potential problems.

Has anyone come across similar information or heard about this clinic?

[Sturge08]

I'm pretty certain that Scooter didn't have the cultured stem cell injection, so this theory won't effect his outcome.

This statement from the Institute of Regenerative and Molecular Orthopedics is the first time which I have come across which says the cultured method isn't the best way to use stem cells.

I have never come across this clinic either.

[Scooter72]

I quickly perused the website, and off-the-cuff, have a question and a comment.  First, if I remember correctly, there are far fewer MSCs in adipose tissue than in the marrow.  So I am not sure that culturing from adipose tissue is a viable option for those who need "many" of them. Second, I read the quote from FG on the site, but cannot find a link to any sources.

Where are the sources? Show me the papers that "suggest" this.  (Because that is a very subjective word)

[markld]

Scooter,

Surely you had images taken before you went in for this procedure. Therefore you shouldn't have a problem posting before and after radiographic evidence showing what has taken place if anything at all.....

[Scooter72]

Mark, welcome back from your hiatus. 

I am not going to get an  "after" MRI until at least 9 months after the prodecure.  Until then, my word is going to have to suffice.

By the way, congrats on your progress with Denovo NT.  I hope it stays well long-term.

[WestPoint]

Scooter,

Did you feel the pains you normally feel for the first three weeks after the treatment? I do, although it's only been two and a half weeks since my injection.

Unfortunately, I don't have access to a stationary bike, so all I can do is walk around. Since the pain has picked up over the last few days, I can only guess that this is from me stopping physiotherapy a few weeks ago. Do you have any suggestions for exercises that I can do that would not compromise the injection under the pattela?

[Scooter72]

Well WP, I really don't have any suggestions for exercises, other than swimming since it is mostly low-impact (unless you are cannonballing into the shallow end...)  Otherwise, do nothing but walking, as per instructions (at least from the Regenexx discharge instructions).

I didn't feel too much pain the first 3 weeks because I layed off of  it almost completely. That being said, it was sore after I started serious activity following week 6.  I would also comment that the more activity I have done, the less sore I feel after said activity, as of late.  For example, I played soccer on Sunday, and after the game, I felt almost no pain, and little soreness. The next day, it was only sore.  That game marked 3 weeks of recreational soccer (about 7 games played).  As I stated before, if this holds true after month 6, then I will consider this procedure a success, and consider it for the future.

Beyond any advice I give, PLEASE ask your doctor.  I am only guessing here based on my experience, and this is a very weak corollary by which to judge the conditon of others, whom I have not even met.

[WestPoint]

Thanks Scooter,

It looks like things are working out really well for you.

Sounds like you've found success already, so I'd suggest that you go for another SD treatment as soon as you can...