ACL injury

[toughsteakdan]

Hi this is my first post and it seems to have taken ages to work out how you do it without loosing it all!. Basically I had an ice skating accident on Boxing Day where I extensively tore my ACL. miniscus had bone bruising and damaged soft tissue to my right knee.

I am now at the point of intensive pt where I am getting more pain, although different to the initial injury, and to cut a very long story short have begun to loose confidence in myself to eventually be ok and be able to resume my full time occupation. :My consultant is optimistic that I may not need surgery however as time goes on I am not!.  He will not say for definite if I will have surgery and I have an appointment with him on 16th April.  My pt says I need to build up the the strength in my leg anyway whatever the outcome and I have now progressed to Knee classes twice a week.....hi..di..hi!. 

I seem to be obsessed by knee stories as sad as it sounds and listen to anything and everyone about their experiences with ACL....everyone seems to have one!!!.  Its all very well at the beginning where You are in a full brace, unable to walk and in agony to now where the novelty seems to wear off and people think you should be ok.

Well Im not!!!! and the stiffness is awful first thing in the morning.  Sometimes I can walk fairly normally but other times the pain just hits me and Im hobbling yet again.  Time just marches on and Im feeling like an invalid.  Im a positive person normally but I see no end in sight. 

You know what I did the other day!!!!I bought two steaks for a treat but they were as tough as old nick.  Today I wrote an angry letter to Tesco detailing the chewiness etc......that is how sad I have become!!!!!. Love to hear from a fellow ACL er.

[tony1233]

Welcome to the board toughsteakdan!

I'm sorry to hear about your accident, I too have an ACL injury. This is what the conclusion of my MRI read: Conclusion: MCL rupture. Complete or high grade partial ACL tear from its femoral attachment. There may be a few tiny intact fibres.
Although my MRI didn't detect any meniscus damage my PT and OS both think there is some damage done there, infact, that was my OS origional diagnosis before he did any tests or MRI's .

I know how you feel about the pain coming and going. I have days where you'd never say I injured myself then there are days where to move my foot a few inches it literally makes me want to cry. Perhaps you should ask to see a different OS. I am also on the Intensive PT and it seems to be to prepare me for ACL rcon. Maybe if you saw a different suregon then they would be able to get the ball rolling a bit on if you'll need surgery for you injuries or not.

My Email is listed on my profile, so if you want to chat then you can send me a message at any time and I'll get back to you as soon as I can.

Best of luck,

Tony

[tez27]

I know how you feel all this knee stuff can take over your life I have been going through this for nearly 2 years and I think I spend more time thinking and worrying about my knee than anything else.  I also spend a lot of time on this board as people here understand what it's like and the help and encouragment you get here is amazing. I'm now waiting for an appointment with a new o.s who specialises in aclr so hopefully my nightmare will be over soon. Just keep the faith that eventually thing will get better and you will get your life back it just takes a bit of patience.
I hope things improve for you soon take care Tez

[CHILLYdogs]

Dan! Dan!  That's a sorry state to be in... Get out of that life ASAP, Bro!  Get back your own.
As you can see in my sig, I had my ACL reconstructed and was back with no restrictions 12 weeks after the surgery.  I've been going full blast ever since.  However, it did take a lot of research to find the right doc and the right procedure for me, as well as a whole lot of rehabbing - both before and after the op.
If you have any questions, feel free to email me.
All the best -- you'll get there!
Kyle

[toughsteakdan]

    ;)Thanks for your kind support....stiff upper lip and all that!.......or very stiff knee and more hobble down the stairs and two bowls of cherios later.

You obviously are old pros at this and I applaud all of you although sorry that you injured yourself initially.  Can I ask some more technical questions as are on my MRI report.

On the sagittal images it appears that the posterior half of the ACL is no longer attached to the femur.  What does that mean ie is there a tear or where has the other half gone!.  Can I function in everyday work which is active, without one half.  Also what is a bursa semimembranosus!.  They say there is traumatic changes to and in the soft tissue around the medial patellar retinaculum......will these changes heal, what does it mean etc.

I seem to be unstable going down hill more than up....strange.....it would be good to hear your take on this. 

This seems a good site for 'me the knee' but I still have a sense of humour and will do anything within my realms to get back and be as fit as I can.  I miss working full time so much.....never thought I would say that!!!!.  People come and go and I want so much to go with them.  I have just started to drive my car again...what bliss going to Tesco!.....yes the chewy one. 

Chilli you have done so well and I suspect you are strong and positive about all of this so keep positive for wimps like me, Kaz I empathize so much with you and John thanks for understanding and replying to me with your take on the knee.  If there is any support I can give also but I guess being a novice there wont be!!!!unless its a winge about the NHS delays and hassle with finding a good os, pt etc. 

'me the knee' x

[tony1233]

I cant help you about the bursa however, From my understanding the ACL part would mean that your ACL was ripped from the femoral attachment. Again, very similar to my injury. I may be wrong there so don't take it for certain I'm sure someone will be able to confirm/deny it!

Have a good day,

tony

[Cosmicsnuffle]

Hi toughsteakdan from another ACL deficient knee!

Like tony1233 says it sounds like your ACL was ripped at the femoral end - so I guess it'll be flopping around inside your knee! Mine was different - I tore it mid-section, which then lodged in the joint and locked my knee with only 30o movement! Like you I also had severe bone bruising - they were kissing contusions on the femur and tibia.
The term "bone bruising" rely doesn't bely the severity of the injury. I'm nearly 7 months post injury, 3 months post scope to debride the stump and the bone bruising is still an issue.

I haven't come across bursa semimembranosus - an online definition says
 "bursa of semimembranosus definition - The bursa between the semimembranous muscle, the head of the gastrocnemius, and the knee joint."
I couldn't find any decent images so it didn't leave me any the wiser ... perhaps a question for your OS/PT?

Hmmm - those traumatic changes - that's a lovely non-specific term. Time will tell on that one I guess, and another question for your OS. I'd guess that if there was something specific on the MRI in that area it would have been "itemised" on your diagnosis.

Going down hill vs uphill- I think it's the shearing pressure on the joint that makes it more unstable.

Funny what you miss :-)  - Tesco runs - hate them but hate more not being able to do them. Sometimes it's not that I would do stuff, just that I want the choice to do it!

...and lastly TSD - you may be a nube but you've already enriched the site with your posts. Thanks :-)

[Lottiefox]

Dan

I can't comment on ACL specifically (my problems stem from a worn out patella and femur that didn't like a load of shuttle sprints in a park last summer) bit I can only echo Cosmic's comments - you have made me smile and enriched this site with your posts! You WILL make progress but god I can empathise with the whole "knee obsession" thing - everyone I ever mention my knee woes to has their own tail of knee trauma or someone they know with a false knee/broken knee/spare knee/extra knee (or so it would seem!). This site if brilliant for support and answering questions and I;ve gained some real friends from it - you are not alone in your knee journey!

The bursa thing sounds like a reaction to the ACL knee trauma - hopefully that should subside. One thing to add - my mate's husband destroyed both of his knees a year apart in footbal as a weekend warrior. Complete ACL destruction and other ligaments. Took some time, a lot of hard work, the right surgery....but he is back to full strength. You will get there.

And whilst you are travelling there....Tesco should be quaking in their money making robbing clubcard points tastic shoes!!

take care

Lottie x

[Snowy]

Hi Dan! I'm also new to the forum, with a fresh ACL injury: I crashlanded a jump while skiing two weeks ago, and blew out my left ACL completely. I'm waiting on an MRI to see if there's any collateral damage, but a surgical reconstruction is definitely in my near future. Unfortunately the wait for the MRI is 4-5 months - much longer than the wait for surgery once I've had the scan!

I sympathise with the position you're in right now. I'm at a similar point, where I'm able to move around and bear weight relatively well but suffering horrible stiffness and an inability to bend the leg that's really limiting my ability to do...well, anything, really. Every day I get on my road bike (I've had it up on an indoor trainer for the winter) and test the pedals to see how close I am to being able to manage a full revolution. Today I can turn them 220 degrees, so just 140 to go. I think that may be sadder than writing letters to Tesco. My physio also has me working hard on quad and hamstring strengthening; the right side is just fine, but on the injured side the quad just gives this sad little twitchy spasm when I try to clench it.

Not sure if you're a swimmer, but I'm finding that really helps - in the water is the one place I feel normal at the moment, and relatively confident in my movements. I used a leg float and just let my legs trail behind me initially, but now I've started doing some very, very gentle kicking. With the support of the water, it's more comfortable than trying to move around on land.

Good luck with your injury. At least none of us are on our own...

[toughsteakdan]

Thank you John...seems that you are a fellow 'flopper'  wonder where our other flappy bit is hiding!!!.

Cosmic...yep bone bruising ...I think only an MRI term...is very painful amid it all and as for the Tesco runs......NO>>>NO>>>NO Cosmic you misinterpret me......its all I CAN do at present so Im throwing myself into the whole experience of it all.

Lottie....thank you for talking about MY KNEE and its good to hear about knee successes. I have just slid down my gloss painted door with a football between my shoulder blades doing 20 squats....mind you I did try doing it on a matt painted wall without the ball.....initially.  Its only 7am.  John my pt has given me a length of elasticated strip.....so I tie one end onto my bedpost and the other onto my foot.  Then on my front I am meant to hoist my bad leg up and down for my hamstrings.......do you think anyone who might be watching 'unlawfully' would understand!!!!!

Hi Snowy....what a long wait you have for an MRI.....its amazing the differences.  My os put urgent MRI on my referral and I waited 6 weeks....its was good for me to have the results as it confirmed why it hurt so much!!!but reading some posts an MRI did not show up anything....I have not had a scope(Im getting the jargon now!), but I reakon when I see os he may do one...who knows. 

Well David Beckham had a reconstruction done in a few hours plus MRI etc.......yes it wasnt for an ACL but it would have been a similar outcome.  He must have very strong muscles as he didnt do any pt before.......wonder if that  Finish os does ACLr too!!! however Im not playing for England am I.....or trying to.

me and the knee

[Cosmicsnuffle]

Hi Toughsteakdantheman and his knee :-)

Your post made me laugh - the theraband "grandmas knicker elastic" tied to various parts of the furniture :-) ... the bizarre positions assumed for PT  - the new uses for existing bits of house/furniture/keep fit kit/friends!!!

YES YES YES :-) I do understand the Tesco "runs" or "hobbles" - there are many things that would have seemed a chore before but now are a joy because the choice is there!... like doing ball-y knee squats at 7am LoL..... (ironing still hasn't made it into that "joy" category).

John - your recommendation for water is great - I'm a "sinker" rather than a swimmer but have made it into a small quiet pool and loved the freedom of movement the support of the water gave. The pre-op nurse made me smile when she was going through the post-op pt - she said "you'll be able to swim 2 weeks post-op" - miraculous as I can't swim now LoL.

TSD ...It sounds like you have a tremendous spirit and are approaching your rehab and recon very positively..... to my mind that counts more than being David Beckham or having a Finnish OS :-) .

Have a good weekend :-)

[browneyesfearie]

I know what its like, I have already had 4 knee surgeries and waited 4 1/2 years between the 3rd and 4th. During that time I had an ACL tear, Med Meniscus tear, Lat Meniscus tear, and quadriceps tendinitis. It was horrible and they thought at first the pt would work too. I eventually got better insurance and went to an Army hospital and had my surgery done. Of course now, that was a year ago and I just found out something else is wrong with me knee: I might have torn my med meniscus again (MRI will confirm) and an Xray already confirmed I have tunnel widening/enlargement and my button is sinking into the tunnel. Sooo, not to fun.

But I'm sorry your having such a hard time. I do recommend if you tore your ACL pretty good, then surgery is your best bet, and I'd say go for the cadavar (sp) tendon over acl recon because there can be alot less problem. Just find a gooood surgeon and you should be set.

Keep your head up, I always say, don't let it get you down, life is too important:)
-Grace

[toughsteakdan]

Hi another question for the pros.......I am thinking of investing in an exercise bicycle as reading through the threads on ACL this seems the most useful for me at the moment.   I have a treadmill but perhaps that is for later.   Tesco has a cheap basic one for £59 and I am at the point of ordering it.......I have also ordered some gel reusable ice packs for when the going gets tuff...... my class starts on Tuesday and ptJohn says my knee will prob swell.  I have also noticed that when I am doing knee clenches to the injured knee I can feel a grinding sound!  how do you feel a sound!!!!....I mean I feel a feel....I mean.....who cares as I know you (the pros) will know.....

Chilly I have tried to get your message but where have you posted it?. ???roll on April when I see my os....I have followed your threads and you are so good at information gathering!.  Is there any key questions to ask him ....

Today I am going to give back my loaned appliances for when I was completely immobilised after the accident....it will be quite cathartic !. 

squats and storks to you all xxxx

[tez27]

I also got the tesco excersise bike I thought it was good value for money and I am trying to use it everyday and i'm very happy with it. It sounds like a good plan. I know what you mean about the grinding sound my knee makes the stranges sounds that I feel rather than hear if that makes sense, When I said that to my husband he lookrd at me as if I had lost it completely he aint got a clue, but I hope you all know what I mean.
Take care Tez   

[Cosmicsnuffle]

I've found an exercise bike has been great for ROM and for just being able to DO something in the early days.... even to do half a rotation and back was good until I could get all the way round. Once I could get full rotation I used to cycle with no resistance for 5 mins at max saddle height then lower the saddle a notch every 5 mins until I'd reached my limit.

I haven't got room for one at home but use both an upright and recumbent at the gym. The Tesco one sounds like a good investment.