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Author Topic: Acupuncture for knees  (Read 3336 times)

Offline Snowy

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Re: Acupuncture for knees
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2010, 08:24:10 PM »
I've been having IMS, which uses the same needles as acupuncture but operates on slightly different principles. The idea is that it gets clenched muscles to release, so if your muscles are in good shape you don't even feel the needle going in. If the muscle is tensed up or shortened, there's a really strong cramping feeling and then it relaxes. There's an overview on this website with more info: http://www.intramuscularstimulation.com/2.htm

I have to say, I really don't enjoy it. I've been having it in my back and down both legs, where the muscles have been really tight and tense since my injury. Most of the needling sites produce an incredibly strong reaction - it's a pretty severe discomfort. However, it's very effective; I find that with the muscles relaxed, the pain levels really decrease afterwards. (The worst pain isn't actually from the injury site, but from the PFS in both knees.) It takes a week or so for things to start tightening up again.

It's definitely not for everyone - a friend of mine stopped getting it because she couldn't stand the sensation - but I am finding it helpful for managing pain.
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Mar 11: R Biceps femoris tear (skiing)
Jul 10: ACLr (hamstring autograft)
Mar 10: L ACL rupture (skiing)
Feb 06: L partial ACL tear (kickboxing)
Dec 03: R bone edema (motorbike)
Jan 01: R patellar chip (motorbike)
May 93: R ACL sprain (hockey)
Ongoing: bilateral PFS and OA

Offline Lou123

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Re: Acupuncture for knees
« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2010, 10:53:43 PM »
Third session yesterday, and still the same 'flare up' as before. Anyone else experience swelling after??

I am going to discuss with my PT whether or not it is worth continuing, as so far I have had no relief from the treatment. That said he does do regular exercises and manipulations before hand, so that could also be a factor in the increased pain and swelling.

- Snowy thanks for the info on IMS, it was an interesting read.
What is it they do with the needles to produce the reaction? When I have acupuncture my PT inserts the needles in various points on my knee and foot, and sort of twists them, or pushes them deeper to create a dull achy pain. Is that similar to IMS? 
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Offline Lottiefox

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Re: Acupuncture for knees
« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2010, 11:11:46 PM »
Hi Lou

I never had swelling after mine, but I guess yours might be linked to the exercises and manipulation rather than the needles. It is hard to establish causality with two things in the mix. Personally my needles went in, and just stayed. No twisting or pushing. I did have a moment on one knee when it went into the quad and was a strong sort of stabbing sensation like it had hit a block. Nasty but then it relented - possibly similar to the IMS sensation Snowy? I just read that link - looks interesting although that man with the needle looks like a serial killer!!!  :o  Given much of my pain is PFS I might look into it.

Lottie  :)
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Bilateral patella OA since 2009, no surgeries.
Euflexxa working well x3 to current
Right forefoot CRPS post fusion surgery 2011
Refusing to let the ailing parts stop me....

Offline Snowy

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Re: Acupuncture for knees
« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2010, 11:20:25 PM »
The IMS sensation is more of a really strong cramp than a stab. It flares hard and passes fairly quickly.

With the IMS, it's all about inserting it into the shortened muscle. My PT spends some time identifying which muscles feel really tense (most of them, usually) and then when he finds one, he just inserts the needle straight in. As soon as it enters the muscle, the reaction happens. The more tensed up and tightened the muscle is, the stronger it feels - if the muscle is only a little bit tense, it's much weaker. Sometimes when one is really bad he'll pull the needle out and reinsert it rapidly a couple of times to get the muscle to relax completely.

It did take me a few sessions to really appreciate the IMS. I've noticed the benefits more as the PFS pain has increased. Last time I went in with both knees feeling like they were on fire, and I noticed an immediate improvement with the muscles relaxed. Even walking up the stairs five minutes later was appreciably less painful.

Lottie, it's definitely worth giving it a try - as I said, not pleasant at all while it's happening, but worth it for the improvement in the pain levels afterwards.
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Mar 11: R Biceps femoris tear (skiing)
Jul 10: ACLr (hamstring autograft)
Mar 10: L ACL rupture (skiing)
Feb 06: L partial ACL tear (kickboxing)
Dec 03: R bone edema (motorbike)
Jan 01: R patellar chip (motorbike)
May 93: R ACL sprain (hockey)
Ongoing: bilateral PFS and OA

Offline Clarkey

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  • Knee pain go away never come back again!
    • nickwclarke
Re: Acupuncture for knees
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2012, 05:06:16 PM »
Quote from: Snowy on May 30, 2010, 08:24:10 PM
I've been having IMS, which uses the same needles as acupuncture but operates on slightly different principles. The idea is that it gets clenched muscles to release, so if your muscles are in good shape you don't even feel the needle going in. If the muscle is tensed up or shortened, there's a really strong cramping feeling and then it relaxes. There's an overview on this website with more info: http://www.intramuscularstimulation.com/2.htm

I have to say, I really don't enjoy it. I've been having it in my back and down both legs, where the muscles have been really tight and tense since my injury. Most of the needling sites produce an incredibly strong reaction - it's a pretty severe discomfort. However, it's very effective; I find that with the muscles relaxed, the pain levels really decrease afterwards. (The worst pain isn't actually from the injury site, but from the PFS in both knees.) It takes a week or so for things to start tightening up again.

It's definitely not for everyone - a friend of mine stopped getting it because she couldn't stand the sensation - but I am finding it helpful for managing pain.

I have had also had IMS session on the NHS a few times as Snowy has had and agree it can be very painful when the needles go in and this is a good sign as it means your muscles are tight and tensed up. On one occasion the needle bent when it went into my muscle as the muscles were so tight. Had needles stuck in my quads and back muscles along what’s called trigger points that’s connected to the central nervous system which is why it can be painful when needles go in and would describe the pain as if you have been stung by a wasp and can last a few seconds or a few minutes depending on how tight the muscles are.

I  am longer allowed  IMS sessions on the NHS since the cut backs and it benefited me a lot as now I am now getting pain again in my right knee and can feel the muscles are really tight when I stretch my quads and thigh muscles before a run.

Is it worth having IMS done privately as I now work in Droitwich and can pop down to the Knee Clinic that have IMS session with the Podiatrist that works there. I feel the benefits straight away so think it is money well spent if it benefitting me.

nickwclarke2012@BhamUK
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R knee: PFS & maltracking
25/01/13 heavy fall onto pavement on black ice walking
30/03/10 cortisone injection into medial side
16/11/09 medial plica excision & fat pad
23/04/09 cortisone injection into lateral side
19/10/07 heavy fall onto pavement jogging
L knee: PFS & maltracking
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