Living without an ACL

[vickyny]

Hi Sabrina
How are you doing?  I can totally sympathize with you,  I used to work in NYC myself and I couldn't even imagine trying to keep up with the traffic with my knee like this.  Did you make an appointment with a surgeon?  You are right about HSS, it is one of the best and I may eventually make an appointment there, but for now I am happy with the doctor I found near me.  I work now with a couple of people who have had surgeries (hip, not knee) at the HSS and they speak very highly of them and of their experience there. 
I started last week with the new PT place and they seem very good and gave me a list of about 8 exercises I need to do everyday, it is hard to find the time but I am trying.  I was out with the kids yesterday and after standing for about an hour, my leg was aching so much and I was so upset.  I just hope that after the PT it will be better, as I keep going back and forth in my head about whether I want to have the surgery or not.  I will have to see how it is at the end of the 6 weeks of therapy.  I too want to lose some weight, so at least this has motivated me to do that

kcknee- which kind of surgery did you have?   

[tez27]

Hi Vicky and Sabrina
having read you posts I know how you feel this is such a hard decision to make, here in the U.K it is not as automatic [having the recon] as it apears to be in the U.S but I feel that not having it done is going to interfear with my day to day life it's possibley more an emotional thing! I dont have any confidence in my knee but at the end of the day I still have daily pain and fair bit of swelling.
What I am worried about most is having the aclr and still having the pain because from what i have read the acl does not have any nerves or somthing so it shouldnt hurt so the pain is coming from somwhere else I also have a tear in my mcl and a lot of scar tissue and I dont know if that should be addressed first when I had my scope the o.s said that he couldnt get a good look in part of my knee because of scar tissue [as far as i was concerened that was what the scope was for to find out what was going on inside my knee] so I'm a bit dissapointed that I still dont know if there is any other problems. Sorry this is starting to go into rant mode I am just so confused about it all.
I hope everyone else is having a better knee day take care Tez     

[vickyny]

Tez
Hi - no not a rant at all as we all here understand exactly what you are feeling and what you are going through.   My doctor also told me that the ACLr will not do anything for pain, because I told him I was having pain in both my legs, so you are probably right that the pain is coming from someplace else.  I know my pain is stemming from the fact that I am putting too much pressure on my good side and that my muscles are now weakened in my injured leg.  I know that if instability on a daily basis becomes an issue for me, then I will definitely want the recon.  It is being in the middle ground, not really being too unstable, but still not being able to do things you want to do without the worry, that makes this decision so hard. You mentioned that you have another appointment coming up this week.. hopefully you can get more information because it is so hard when you are confused and not sure what is going on.  Please let us know what happens and good luck.

[tez27]

Thanks Vicky
I t makes such a difference to have someone who understands how I feel, it is such a difficult decision to make to recon or not to recon lol
I also have the problem with my good knee I think it has been doing all the work for too long and its decided to complain very loudly  even though I know its just been overworked for some time I do get a bit freaked out about it the last thing I want is problems with my "good knee"
How has your knee been recently do you notice any improvement at all has your p.t helped I find that my stregnth is improving slightly but the pain is much the same I also notice what feels like my knee moving with a slide and a clunk when I am standing with my weight on it
does that sound familar to anyone or am I just a bit odd.
Seeing my O.S on thur so will see what he has to say then
Take care Tez

[vickyny]

It is a very difficult decision.  When was your initial injury?  My "good knee" is suffering too, I always say it hurts me more than the injured knee.  It feels like it locks up on me when I am walking, so I have the same concerns/worries that you have-that I will damage my good knee too.  I only started with the new pt place last week, so too soon to say if it is helping any.  When I wake up in the morning, my injured knee is very very stiff..and I have to walk around a bit before it feels like it has loosened up.  I am not sure why this is happening.  I don't feel a slide and clunk like you describe, but I havent been really been putting much weight on it out of fear I guess of it giving out.  Its good that you feel your strength improving.  Let us know what the doctor says tomorrow. 

[tez27]

Vicky my initial injury happened in June 2007 [long time ago] I fell going down stairs on my way to work picked myself up quicker than I went down and limped my way to work, knew I had done some major damage I could put some weight on it but could'nt bend it at all, I am not very good at going to doctors so thought the knee would get better itself, but after a week  the pain was getting worse instead of better, I gave in and went to my g.p who diagnosed an m.c.l sprain that should improve over the next few weeks, when things did'nt improve I went back to g.p who sent me to p.t  he worked with me for a while then he decided I had a torn meniscus, so he referd me to an o.s who sent me for am m.r.i that came back as a bit of wear and tear so I was sent on my way with a knee that was still very painfull that I  knew  was not right fast forward a couple of months of sleepless nights taking stronger and stronger pain killers, my g.p referd me back to the o.s this time he looked through my m.r.i with me sitting beside him this time he noticed a few pockets of fluid that "Did'nt look Right"so decided to do a scope had to wait untill 5th of January this year to be told that I had a complete rupture of the a.c.l a tear to the m.c.l, cant tell how bad as there was so much scar tissue, the o.s removed a fiberouse band that had grown over the frayed ends of the a.c.l I think that was why the m.r.i did'nt pick it up, the band made it look intact, from what I have been told since then when I fell the doc thinks I only had a partial tear to the a.c.l but becaues I walked around for so long it ruptured completly.
Sorry about this long post but it has been a long drawn out proccess to get to this stage.
Seems I have quite a high pain threshhold thats why I could walk around etc its also why it took sooooo long to diagnose.
Will post what the doc says tomorrow take care Tez   

[tez27]

I had my appointment with my o.s today so at last the decision has been made i am going for the a.c.l recon as it is the only option left for me I've tried going down the consevetive route with out any succcess so that is the plan my o.s will refer me to another o.s who specialises in acl recon, I have to wait for an appointment with him to discuss what happens next.
 I have heard that he has about a 20 week waiting list for surgery but dont know how long before I have my first appointment, so more waiting but at least we have a game plan now
Tez   

[Nicole43]

Excellent Tez. I bet you feel so glad to have made a decision.

Think of the 20 weeks wait as a great opportunity to get your knee muscles as fit as possible and to fill the freezer 
Nicole

[vickyny]

Tez,
That is great, you must feel relief that your decision has finally been made.  The o.s must be good if he has a 20 week waiting list.  Like Nicole said, get in as good as shape as possible to make it easier after the surgery.  I hope after my 6 weeks of therapy, I will have a better idea of what route I will be taking, the not knowing right now gets to me everyday.  I know exactly what you must have been feeling all this time.
Vicky

[tez27]

Hi Nicole and Vicky
You are both right I feel as if for once I have made the right decision, the 20 week plus is fine with me cos I have a hoilday booked for Spain the end of June so should still be abel to go and enjoy lying on a beach, at least I've got a good excuse not to go for the  long walks
My husband is fond of.
So the plan is prehab prehab prehab, will see my physio next thur so will see if there is anything extra I should be doing to help make things easier after the op.
vicky I know what you mean it is horrid not knowing what way it is going to go I felt like it was on my mind constantly so hopefully I might get a good nights sleep now the decision is made.
Take care Tez     

[cbranden59]

I recently had arthroscopic surgery to repair my Meniscus, and also found out on the MRI, my ACL has been gone for years, probably back when I was in college in 1978.  I injured it in our opening basketball game my sophomore year, back then they didn't do knee surgeries as much so they just put me in a straight splint and let my knee heal. I played softball the Spring Semester after my surgery, and also finished two more years of college basketball without my ACL.  Also played Slow Pitch Softball up until about 10 years ago! Not sure how my knee held up that long, but it did, until I tore my Meniscus. I went several years after the tear until a few weeks ago my knee locked, so surgery was a must.  I feel so much better now, and still without my ACL, but of course no more physical sports, basketball, racquetball, anything where I would be cutting or moving side to side, etc.  Any way, I am too old now! LOL! Can still take on anyone in HORSE! I will just enjoy watching my daughters play.  Life without an ACL for older people is fine.  If I was younger and still real active, I would have it repaired.  Good Luck!

[kscope09]

How did your knee fell when playing basketball.  Did you feel like you had to be careful all the time, did you have any hypermobility and did you find rotation and changing direction rapidly difficult?  Also, what about the state of your cartliage, do you have arhtitis?

[vickyny]

Hi,
How did you end up tearing your menicus?  Is it easier to tear the menicus once the ACL is gone?  This has become a concern of mine, not only can I not do certain physical activities without my ACL, but am I setting myself up for future damage to my knee?  I have 3 daughters, one is only a few months old, so I am concerned about what I may not be able to do with her.  I am going to be 40 this year, so I dont know if I fit into the "older" category, I keep thinking I just want to get it repaired and move on even though I know there will be many tough months ahead of me.

[mouk786]

I was partially torn and then I got fully torn playing football (soccer).

For the 6 months I was fully torn my knee was very 'squidgy'. I did tear soem of my meniscus and cartilage as well the second time.

I had my ACLr last Tuesday and it feels OK so far. Muscles really do waste but rehab is key I spose.

I know that I would have hated going around with no ACL forever like I was before because I was limitd in what I could do. That said I had the extra tears which was causing the squidginess.

If my physio is to be believed you can easily live without your ACL.

But if there is pain etc then I would take surgical action where possible.

[mouk786]

kscope - There is a difference between a partial and a full tear. Obviously it depends on how bad the aprtial tear is.

I was able to physio and play a years worth of full football (sometimes three 5 a side games a week) on my partially torn ACL.

It finally gave up the ghost for some reason when I went for a twist.

It may be that yours is partially torn bad enough to be almost fully torn but I tink its rubish that you are in your 20s and not allowed a ACLr - I presume it is on the NHS and they are reluctant to do it due to cost.

I would suggest seeing a different OS in a different hospital.

I think you really need to sell the fact that you are an active person

Although I could play on my partial tear it never felt totally complete. But my surgeon didnt offer me surgery on the partial tear - just told me to rehab so i took his advice. I wish i hadn;t now and took the ACLr at that time.

I was approx 22 at partial tear and 25 now for the ACLr and I very much sold the fact I was a footy player.

edit to add - the second tiem i went to see a different surgeion privatley and he did the OP on the NHS. If you are in south england i can give you his number but you will need a pshyio to referyou. i can give you my physios number though.