Baker's cysts

[karend14]

Dani-

I know.... the fun never seems to end! I'm really starting to think that the people around me think that this is recreational for me! They either think that or that I'm a total nut case. After all of this though, it may be fair to call me a nut case, because I'm starting to feel that way!
I saw my OS last Friday and we decided against draining the cyst. He said there's actually no way that you can really drain a cyst without sticking the needle directly into it (which is a big no-no, I guess). He said he could take fluid off of my knee in hopes that doing that would help the cyst to go down, but he couldn't guarantee any relief, especially for a long period of time. He, instead, suggested that we go ahead and schedule the scope. That way we could take care of everything at once. So, I'm going in on Thursday. He seems to think that he'll either be removing the transplant or repairing small tears. He won't be sure until he gets in there. It's kind of unnerving not knowing what I'm going to wake up to though. I guess it's a good thing I REALLY trust my doctor! Let's just hope I can finally nip all this in the bud!
I hope everything is good with you. I'll let ya know how everything goes on Thursday!

Karen

[Berta]

Hi Karen, Fingers crossed for you for Thursday, I hope all goes well, and that you get away with the least amount of work and get a major benefit. I can understand how you feel, it's always nice to know what to expect when you wake up, and I hope that you don't get all the explanations of what has been done until you are fully awake. Don't you just love it when they go through all that stuff before you are properly with it again.

Dani, take care of that tear, we're back to make haste slowly, if it is healing treat it gently!

We've been away for a few days, so no cylcling or lwan mowing done for a while. When we got back here the cryo cuff I ordered had arrived, and it's great. I've spent the last couple of evenings with my leg elevated and wearing the cuff, and seem to have got the problems caused by to much time sat in the car, and to much walking around have caused. I will definatley be using it after mowing in the future.

[Dani0009]

Karen!  I can't believe it.  Your doc isn't wasting any time.  That's great!  I know it's scary not to know, but if you trust your doc, you'll be fine.  The same thing happened to me with the TTT - the doc was just going in to scope, but the placement of my kneecap was soooo bad that he just did the TTT while he was in there.  I woke up thinking 'what the heck is on my leg from my hip to my ankle!', but it was the best thing I've ever done.

You are probably out of surgery now, so I'm hoping everything went well for you and wishing you a speedy recovery.  Let me know how you're doing as soon as you feel up to it!

Denny,
I'm glad you got a cryo cuff!  I would swear on those things.  I had more swelling after my LR w/out the cuff than I did after my TTT with the cuff!  That should help you a bunch!  Hopefully it will help you enough to allow you to do the bike again soon!

I'm just poking along.  My physio asked me to go see another doc and he gave me a few names, so I'm working up the nerve to start all over again.  We shall see what happens.

-Dani

[Berta]

Hi Karen, still sending positive vibes your way, hoping to get an update soon.

Dani, Look on the bright side, you may get to see a cute looking doc next, or maybe you're already lucky there. Is the physio looking for an any two from 3 diagnoses I wonder? It does make some semse though, if there are different opinions, it would be nice if you could get a definate answer to what is going on.

I'm a bit worried at the moment, since being back from our trip, we have had a busy busy time, I've had to spend more time walking and standing, and on Wednesday , joy of joys, went on a crop tour, and had to get on and off of the bus 7 times, that just wasn't funny. Anyway, the increased activity made the knee hurt, no shock there, so have been using the cryo cuff every evening. Yesterday I started to get some new symptoms, I have what feels like a patch of pins and needles on my shin just above the ankle, and yesterday was feeling some heat kind of inside the knee. Today there seems to be some swelling actually over the knee cap, and it's burning inside, the skin is cool to the touch, but if I push it I can feel fluid moving around, my husband says that the cryo cuff is causing it, I think it's the increased activity. I was wondering if it's some kind of water on the knee, or can the cyst actually burst back into the knee. Any ideas?

[Dani0009]

Hi Denny,

A cute doctor would always be nice, but I've seen a picture of the guy my physio wants me to see and unfortunately there's nothing to get excited over there.  But if he can help, I'll be thrilled.  I'm just looking for 2 doctors that say the same thing.  I don't count the first guy because he was a moron who told me nothing was wrong.  However, that leaves me with two opinions: scar tissue and cartilage.  I'm at the point where I'm hoping this guy suggests a scope so I can get this over with.  I have a trip to Prague planned in October and I'm so afraid I'm going to have to cancel because of my knee or I'm going to go and get REALLY hurt over there, then I'm going to be really sorry.  We'll see though.  I'm calling tomorrow for the appointment...

Anyway, sorry to hear that your knee has been bothering you lately.  The fun never ends! :-)

As far as I know, the baker's cyst forms because of a one way valve from the center of the knee to the back of the knee, so I don't think the fluid can go back to the front of the knee.  If it could, I don't think  bakers cysts would exsist.  The fluid could just go back and forth until it's reabsorbed, etc.  I'm guessing you're experiencing some sort of water on the knee from the increased activity.  I don't think the cryo cuff is doing that to you.  Is it possible for you to see a doctor about having the fluid drained or getting an anti-inflammatory?  I think draining would offer you some relief.

The pins and needles is odd.  It could be some sort of nerve pain.  Perhaps the baker's cyst is sitting on a nerve or something.  Is your foot experiencing the same sensation?

The burning pain and heat usually mean arthritis, I believe.

Take it easy!!!  You can lay off the cryo cuff for a few days (if you're concerned about it), but keep icing your knee at least.  Take an anti inflammatory and I would lay off the bike as well.  Tell me more about the pins and needles sensation... back or front of the leg?  any swelling, heat, cold, problems with your foot? 

[Berta]

Hi there, yeah I figured I'll have to go back and see the doc if it doesn't settle in a day or two. I'm on anti inflammatories the whole time as the leg is swollen the whole time. Mow I can't get technical here, but in laymans terms, I have a constant large swelling just below the knee and to the inside of my leg, and that is the cyst. I also have some swelling above the knee, but thats only around 2 or 3 cm's. My lower leg is constantly slightly swollen, and the ankle and foot kind of ebb and flow depending on activity levels.

the pins and needles feeling is just like a small patch of skin about 3 cm around, on the front of my leg over the shin bone, it feels like I've been leaning my shin on something and the feeling is just coming back. The foot feels like it normally does, thats just fat and swollen.

I will try my best to rest up for a couple of days, and I will be calling on the doc in a day or two if I need to. I suppose ichanging symptoms make it less boring!

[Dani0009]

Well, I think if you've been on anti-inflammatories this whole time and you're still having problems, you should probably go back to the OS.  The swelling you're describing sure sounds like 'water on the knee' so to speak.  A little draining will take care of that.   At the very least, keep an eye on the pins and needles sensation.  Is there anything visible on that part of the leg (indentation, bruise, etc)?

The location of your baker's cyst sure sounds a lot like the bump I have that no one can decide whether or not it's a calf muscle tear or a baker's cyst.  My primary didn't think it was in the right location for a baker's cyst, so I'm just curious.  Is yours almost at the top of your calf?  If you're looking at the back of my right leg, it's on the left side, under the crease, but toward the inside of my knee.  The primary thought it was a little low to be a baker's cyst, but one of the physios I've seen didn't think so.

By the way, I'm actually going to the new doc recommended by my physio on Friday.  They sure got me in quickly!  Mention the word ACL and you get in quite quickly, I've come to find out.  I also have been going to the same office for years and years, but I have seen different doctors.  That's good and bad.  They have my records, but sometimes it's nice to start over with someone who isn't reading everyone else's diagnoses. We'll shall see what happens.

Take care of that knee!  Ice, ice ice and keep up with the anti-inflams, as many as you're allowed (and elevate above the heart).

[Berta]

Karen, I'm really pleased that things seem to have turned out OK, it's great when you think the worst and it actually turns out for the best, I'll keep sending goodwill vibes towards that knee and hope that this will mean that you can move on and do less boring things. As ever, make haste slowly as you rehab, I'm sure it's best in the long run.

Dani, good luck for Friday lets hope a fresh pair of eyes and hands on the case comes up with the right answers for you.

I'm dragging the knee back to the doc this afternoon, it's still painful and 'squishy' and still haver this little tingly patch. I'm hoping in a way things are worse so I can actually get to see the OS, not again, but for the first time. I was referred in May, but don't actually get to see him until 26th September. It's been a bl**dy long wait, and I'm sure that you will have sympathy with the feeling that not knowing what is actually wrong is frustrating, putting a label on it doesn't make anything better but it sure makes it easier to deal with in your brain.

The cyst was diagnosed through ultra sound, and the GP said it was large, but, and I lknow this sounds stupid, I'm not exactly sure which lump is the cyst. I have nothing directly behind the knee, but two lumps one above and one below the knee, both on the front of my leg, toward the inside. I'll have to quiz him today on what is what down there! I'll let you know how things go.

[Dani0009]

Karen,

I'm so glad your knee problems turned out much smaller than everyone thinked/expected.  That's fantastic news!!!!  So basically, you're recovering from a meniscal repair right now?  That's good, much better than what it could have been.  How has the recovery been so far?  If you're back at work already, I'd think you're doing well!  I'm so happy for you!  I'd be curious to know what he did for the baker's cyst.

To answer your question, the bump did not show up on the MRI, so everyone just assumed it was a baker's cyst that just didn't show up. Then, I did calf raises in PT on day and was in massive amounts of pain (on the bump) for 3 days afterward.  Then everyone changed their mind and said a calf muscle tear.  I'm not entirely sure I agree with that.  I'm sticking with my opinion on everything: some kind of cartilage tear, the ACL is partially torn and there's a baker's cyst.  But, what do I know?

Denny,

I'm glad you're going back to the doctor.  I was thinking for some reason that the MRI was in September and you've already had the OS appt.  I have a hard time keeping everybody straight!  I think you going back should bump you up on the list, no?  I also think it's a good idea that you're going back. I hope you get some relief!

My new saying is: the fun never ends! These darn old lady knees that we have.  How did we ever get so lucky? :-P

[Berta]

Well that was a waste of an afternoon should of spent the time sun bathing, would probably of done more good.

Todays brilliant bit of diagnostics..........."I don't know"

I suppose I did get some answers, the bakers cyst IS above the knee, it is to the back, and round to the inside of my knee, means if I stand with my knees (nearly) together it's stuck between them. He reckons that is what causes the pain at the back of the knee when I try and stretch the leg. The lump below the knee is an unkown, he has no idea what it is, and he also doesn't know why the lower leg, ankle and foot are swollen, and diodn't appear to have any interest in the increase in pain at the front of the knee, if he had bothered to actually examine it, I would of asked about the bruise that is still there, at exactly the place that he injected me back in February time.

He jumped on the pins and needles thing, and sent me off to the local hospital for an xray on my back, now I have had a trapped nerve in the back before, and yes I did have pins and needles in my leg, but this is different, that was a deep inside 'dead leg' feeling, and this is very much a surface thing. The guy who did the xrays said that they look fairly clear, but he did see a potential problem at T12, which is further up than my old friends L4 and L5 who are the usual culprits, will have to wait to get a proper reading on them before passing any judgement.

Anyway, as you may have gathered I am pretty p*ssed off right now, and need to nuture this feeling until tomorrow, so I will actually go ahead and make an appointment to see another doctor, I don't know if it will get me to see an OS any quicker, but I may get some better answers to go on with.

[Dani0009]

Aw, Denny, I'm sorry you didn't get any answers!!!  I thought for sure the dumb doctor would at least drain your knee or something!  While your back isn't helping your knee, it seems like there is something different going on in there.

I hope you do go to a different doctor.  I know it stinks to start all over again with someone new, but if it will help, you should go for it.

Look how many doctors I've been to.  Sometimes I have to actually work up the courage to call a new one.  It's just tiring, frustrating and mentally draining.  But, you just have to keep at it!

[Berta]

Well I managed to still be upset , so have phoned and made an appointment to see another doc, having chosen the one I want to go to I phone, and guess what, he's on holiday Have got an appointment for next Tuesday, so will keep everything crossed that he at least does a full examination of the knee. I'll feel a lot better if he actually pokes and prods it, and if he then says, nothing we can do at the moment, well that's Ok. I'm sure you understand the feeling of just wanting to know that something has been properly looked at

[Dani0009]

Yes, I definitely know the feeling of wanting to know what's going on with your knee and having the knee properly looked at!  The last doc I saw extended and flexed my knee, asked me if it hurt to do so and that was it.  I felt shafted!   Is the appointment on Tuesday the 7th or the 14th?  Either way, you're better off waiting a little longer and seeing a better doctor vs waiting a couple of days and seeing a stinky doctor.  I hope the guy you're seeing will be able to help you.

My latest appointment was successful (finally)!  The doc was nice, well mannered and laid out my options: scope or cortizone shot.  I took the shot.  I want to try all options before scoping it.  He told me if it doesn't get better w/in a week to call and bump up my appointment from the end of the month to discuss the scope.  He feels there is a cartilage issue, and thinks my bump is a baker's cyst (I don't know why I bother asking, I always get different opinions).  But, I felt good leaving there, like there is a light at the end of the tunnel!  He definitely proded around a little bit, and he found some trigger points that made me say 'ouch!' so that makes me think he might have a good grasp of what's going on in there.

So, keep fighting!  I think it's worth it.  I've seen 1 GP and 3 OS(es).  It stinks, but it's your knee!

[Berta]

Appointemt is on the 7th, just a few days now, and I think that's all I want, for him to actually LOOK, and TOUCH, if he hasn't got many pearls of wisdom I'll be dissapointed, but at the same time OK, if you see what I mean, as long as I feel it's had the attention it deserves. This guy is new in the area, but checked him out on RateMd's.com, and he has a 4.7 rating out of 5, my guy has 1.7 The people in his last town all posted positively, and strangely enough he has a positive post from his new practice by someone who actually hasn't seen him yet, but pointing out that when they do have to go to the doctor this is the one they will choose, as the town is buzzing with how good he is.

I'm glad that you had a good visit, did you get the shot then and there. and if so has it helped any? It's great that you have someone there with some flexibility, and it sure does help if you have a Doc who knows his manners, it doesn't take any m,ore time to be polite and pleasant, when you here some horror stories on here you wonder how some of the arrogant ones keep going. I've lost track now, how does the voting stand on the Cyst not a Cyst debate, and did he say what he would do with it if it is a cyst?

[Dani0009]

Well, the 7th isn't too far away now!  It seems like forever when you're in pain, but it will be worth the wait.  Just think positively! :-)  4.7/5 on ratemymds.com is a great rating!

The doc gave me the shot right then and there, and unfortunately, it hasn't helped at all.  My knee is actually killing me.  I'm usually anywhere between a 3-5 on the pain radar and I've been a 7+ the past couple of days.  He told me to ice, ice, ice for the 2 days after the shot, and to rest for a couple of days.  I've done both and it's still killing me.  I've read up on it, and it sounds like I'm having a "cortisone flare".  It's not fun!  I keep telling myself I only have to wait until Friday.  If it's not better by then, I can just schedule the scope.

I agree with you about the manners.  It doesn't take any longer for the doc to be polite and pleasant.  I would obviously rather a great doctor over a doctor with a great bedside manner, but I don't see why I can't have both! 

More people are saying baker's cyst vs calf muscle tear.  He said fixing whatever is going on in my knee will help the cyst.  He said that he could put some cortisone in there if it's bothering me, but it really hasn't lately.  And, the cortisone he put in my knee has actually seemed to help that a bit.  What he said kind of made sense... he said that a calf muscle rupture would be more likely to cause the kind of bump that I have, but it's definitely not a rupture. 

We'll see what happens!  I hope your appointment goes well on Tues.  I'll be sending positive vibes your way!